To Drink or not to Drink--That is the Question!!

[Seraph1m]

1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, [then] have we confidence toward God.

 

[PaleHorse]

Pr 20:1 Wine is a mocker( how much wine is a mocker?? an ounce--a cup?? a gallon??), strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

I think the indictment is against the beverage itself--and NOT the amount!!!

I agree 100%! If one applies the rules of hermeneutics to this verse that point becomes all too clear. The same is true for the following verse:
Isaiah 5:22 - Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Again, there is no mention of amount - just simply the beverage itself.

Proverbs 23:31 - Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

I don't know if its been stated yet - but one is at a certain level of inebriation as soon as they have a drink. One is either sober (100&) or they are a intoxicated to a particular degree. The Bible says in many verses that drunkards (regardless of degree) are to be avoided and/or it is bad to be one:
1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Proverbs 23:20-21 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Nahum 1:10 - For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.


Again, the degree of drunkness is beside the point as far as the Bible is concerned. There are verses that add adjectives to further describe the drunkness but again, that is beside the point - the point the Bible makes is drinking alcohol is wrong. Some may try and skirt around this point but the facts remain and the above witnesses testify to this truth. And remember:
Matthew 18:16 - But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

I've got 7 witnesses in this post alone!

 

[happywiththelord]

not only will i give myself a hand, but i still have enough to pass around for everyone! haha

I AGREE TOO!!

Hey Happy...give yourself a hand!

(I kill me) ROFL

 

[SnowBird77]

I agree 100%! If one applies the rules of hermeneutics to this verse that point becomes all too clear. The same is true for the following verse:
Isaiah 5:22 - Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
Again, there is no mention of amount - just simply the beverage itself.

Proverbs 23:31 - Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

I don't know if its been stated yet - but one is at a certain level of inebriation as soon as they have a drink. One is either sober (100&) or they are a intoxicated to a particular degree. The Bible says in many verses that drunkards (regardless of degree) are to be avoided and/or it is bad to be one:
1 Corinthians 5:11 - But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Proverbs 23:20-21 - Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
Nahum 1:10 - For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.


Again, the degree of drunkness is beside the point as far as the Bible is concerned. There are verses that add adjectives to further describe the drunkness but again, that is beside the point - the point the Bible makes is drinking alcohol is wrong. Some may try and skirt around this point but the facts remain and the above witnesses testify to this truth. And remember:
Matthew 18:16 - But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

I've got 7 witnesses in this post alone!

I agree. Seven witnesses is quite a lot.

The first witness was only referring to the mighty and men of strength, but I guess we can ignore that for these purposes.

Since one can be a one-drink drunkard, then the juxtaposition of drunkard with glutton in the witness called Proverbs 23:20-21 means one can be a one-bite glutton.

This type of scriptural analysis is best left alone. I shall henceforth observe from the cheap seats.

 

[Windmill]

but did those verses actually call wine a sin as such?

 

[HoneyDew]

but did those verses actually call wine a sin as such?

No, Windmill, they call out drunkeness, gluttony, looking at strange women, revilers, idolators ...
The Bible prohibits wine for those called into service as Nazirites. See Judges 13 where the angel tells Samson's mom not to drink any kind of strong drink, also that the child's hair should be untouched by razor -- first case of dreadlocks, I think.

 

[PaleHorse]

I agree. Seven witnesses is quite a lot.

The first witness was only referring to the mighty and men of strength, but I guess we can ignore that for these purposes.

Since one can be a one-drink drunkard, then the juxtaposition of drunkard with glutton in the witness called Proverbs 23:20-21 means one can be a one-bite glutton.

This type of scriptural analysis is best left alone. I shall henceforth observe from the cheap seats.

That would probably be the wisest thing to do.

 

[PaleHorse]

but did those verses actually call wine a sin as such?

That depends, if the wine (yayin) was talking about grape juice or it was referring to alcoholic wine. The answer to that is in the context of the verse.

One thing I can say is that in those instances where "wine" (yayin) was referring to the alcoholic beverage, one most always sees something bad/unsavory occur in the story being told that is a direct result of the imbibing of said beverage.

 

[honorthesabbath]

That depends, if the wine (yayin) was talking about grape juice or it was referring to alcoholic wine. The answer to that is in the context of the verse.

One thing I can say is that in those instances where "wine" (yayin) was referring to the alcoholic beverage, one most always sees something bad/unsavory occur in the story being told that is a direct result of the imbibing of said beverage.

I agree Palehorse--and like Happy said --alcohol is not needed for health or life--period. It is a substance--like dope--that can and should be avoided without detriment to the human body.

One can only go a few minutes without oxygen..
a few days without water.....
a few weeks without food...

how long can one live without alcohol???
How long does one live WITH alcohol?? Kep in mind that science says that as little as one scant ounce and brain cells are destroyed--NEVER to be replaced. Do we have a right to do that to the Holy Spirits communication center?

 

[Peguero]

Here is the SDA argument about the subject. In the greek language the same word for wine is also the same word for unfurmented grape juice/non-alcoholic cocktail grape juice. That's why you will find two types of wine in the bible. Old wine that we all know, and new wine, right out of the cluster. When grape juice sits for a long time it becomes furmented/alcoholic.

 

[SnowBird77]

I agree Palehorse--and like Happy said --alcohol is not needed for health or life--period. It is a substance--like dope--that can and should be avoided without detriment to the human body.

One can only go a few minutes without oxygen..
a few days without water.....
a few weeks without food...

how long can one live without alcohol???
How long does one live WITH alcohol?? Kep in mind that science says that as little as one scant ounce and brain cells are destroyed--NEVER to be replaced. Do we have a right to do that to the Holy Spirits communication center?

Wine is not alcohol. Wine contains alcohol. Too many are speaking authoritatively on a subject they do not understand. If you take Vicks44 you took alcohol.

Above all, the devil did not make alcohol.

 

[SnowBird77]

Here is the SDA argument about the subject. In the greek language the same word for wine is also the same word for unfurmented grape juice/non-alcoholic cocktail grape juice. That's why you will find two types of wine in the bible. Old wine that we all know, and new wine, right out of the cluster. When grape juice sits for a long time it becomes furmented/alcoholic.

Let us try Hosea 4:11
Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

Do you still hold to this interpretation?

 

[honorthesabbath]

Wine is not alcohol. Wine contains alcohol. Too many are speaking authoritatively on a subject they do not understand. If you take Vicks44 you took alcohol.

Above all, the devil did not make alcohol.

And you missed the point completely--as usual.

 

[SassySDA]

Wine is not alcohol. Wine contains alcohol. Too many are speaking authoritatively on a subject they do not understand. If you take Vicks44 you took alcohol.

Above all, the devil did not make alcohol.

Alcohol is alcohol, no matter WHAT form you get it in. Whether it be liquor, wine, beer, or cough medicine. It's still a drug we can all do without.

If someone could drink grape juice that has been left to sit and ferment on it's own...then I would say that is a person with one monster of an addiction to alcohol. What you will have is nothing much better than drinking pure vinegar, and I have a feeling vinegar would taste better.

My father made wine for many years. When I was very young he made homemade liquor...Moonshine it's called in the south. I know what it takes to make it because I watched him as he did it. It takes other ingredients to make DRINKABLE wine and/or liquor. You can't just let the fruit sit and rot.

Wine isn't alcohol? What is it then? Once you have allowed that fruit to basically "rot", it's not fruit juice anymore, that's for sure. It would taste HORRENDOUS, that's why I say it would take someone with a monstrous addiction to alcohol to be able to get it down.

I have personally seen so much devastation from this drug, that even if God TOLD US to drink it, I would not, and I'm DEAD serious about that.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Many denominations belief that the use of alcohol is ok, but in moderation. Some teach that Jesus Himself not only drank alcohol but also MADE it for the guests at Cana.

Historic Adventism strictly prohibits it's use in any form or amount!!

What say ye???

if ye want cancer drink up