To Drink or not to Drink--That is the Question!!

honorthesabbath said:

Presence--do you know the meaning of "flaming" someone's beliefs??? Be careful--your on thin ice here my friend!!

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Did I "flame" someone's belief's?

Does someone here believe in anything other than the teachings of the bible?

Go ahead, call me crazy, it won't hurt my feelings. But, before you do, perhaps you should have cause? Now if I say someone is either, crazy, or a charlatan, that is my opinion. I didn't attack anyone's belief's did I? Does someone here believe in EGW?

What I said is, it seems to me that the doctrines of the SDA church stem from EGW's teachings. I believe she was among other things a false prophet.

Now I have ample evidence to support this notion. Is that "flaming"? There is quite a bit of evidence to support the notion, that she is a false prophet, and or she had a mental disorder, among other allegations, which are at the least plausible.

Is that "flaming"?

My interest though is to debate the issue of Alcohol consumption.

Any one?

We as Seventh day adventists have well evolved well beyond EGW. She had dreams and had desertion but all of us can talk to GOD. I have never read anyting by EGW and have never heard a sermon based on Whites books or any of her literature. They said Jesus was crazy saying HE was the son of GOD but lo and behold he was. I say look to the sky and pray for truth. We do not worship or pray in the name iof ellen we pray in the name of Jesus. The glory to him AMEN I say to alcohol or drug use we are all responsible for our own actions GOD bless and remember the temple of the holy spirit recides in all of us. Keep your temples clean GOD bless

Matt 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

The word winebibber from the Greek is: oinopotes {oy-nop-ot'-ace}
a winebibber, given to wine, a wino

Because Jesus drank wine those religious hypocrites of his day said he was a drunk! Typical of the Pharisaical mind, wouldn't you say?

If I go to the bar to share Jesus, hypocrites won't even regard what I'm doing they'll just gossip about where I am, the company I keep, and what I was drinking.

BTW

I've got no problem with someone who doesn't drink or doesn't believe in drinking. But to say the bible strictly teaches against it is nonsense, and wholly unsupportable.

The bible certainly teaches against drunkenness, but the use of fermented (alcoholic) drink was common in biblical times and in no way wholly prohibited.

honorthesabbath said:

Sir--u may not debate anything in here--your not an SDA--u should read the rules before you post!!

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Technically speaking I'm an SDA. That's what my spouse tells me because I belong to the SDA church. I mean I joined an SDA Church and haven't been exiled, yet.

So it depends on your position. However, since joining the church I began to study the doctrines (they don't tell you the whole sordid story) and came to find out that I'd been duped into what appears to be a false religion.

Ok, so I'm missing something. You mean I can't debate an issue if I don't agree with your doctrines? So what's the point of bringing up a subject for discussion?

Just for the record before I get ex-communicated, look up the word wine in the Strong's Concordance and you'll discover, if your honest, that there are many references to wine some which are negative and some which extol, but that in most instances the word references a fermented drink, therefor an alcoholic beverage.

Some Examples:

WINE: yayin {yah'-yin} which means simply: from an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication, intoxication:--banqueting, wine, wine(-bibber).

As we see the use of this type of wine is intoxicating.

Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine 03196, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

As we see Melchizedek king of Salem used this intoxicating wine.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine 03196 : and he [was] the priest of the most high God.

The following text were simply pulled to show how prevalent the use of wine which was fermented and therefor at least potentially intoxicating is used in many places in the bible, these are but a few more and each time the same word which was used for the wine that got Noah stewed is being used.

Gen 27:25 And he said , Bring [it] near to me, and I will eat of my son's venison that my soul may bless thee. And he brought [it] near to him, and he did eat: and he brought him wine 03196 , and he drank.

Exd 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine 03196 [for] a drink offering.

Lev 10:9 Do not drink wine 03196 nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations :

Num 6:4 All the days of his separation shall he eat nothing that is made of the vine 03196 tree, from the kernels even to the husk.

Num 6:20 And the priest shall wave them [for] a wave offering before the LORD: this [is] holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine 03196.

I was informed by a Rabbi that all wine that was kept (not immediately used) in those times was fermented, the only way they had to preserve the drink. No refrigerators you see.

My apologies if I've broken rules. It was not my intention.

Presence said:

Technically speaking I'm an SDA. That's what my spouse tells me because I belong to the SDA church. I mean I joined an SDA Church and haven't been exiled, yet.

So it depends on your position. However, since joining the church I began to study the doctrines (they don't tell you the whole sordid story) and came to find out that I'd been duped into what appears to be a false religion.

Ok, so I'm missing something. You mean I can't debate an issue if I don't agree with your doctrines? So what's the point of bringing up a subject for discussion?

Just for the record before I get ex-communicated, look up the word wine in the Strong's Concordance and you'll discover, if your honest, that there are many references to wine some which are negative and some which extol, but that in most instances the word references a fermented drink, therefor an alcoholic beverage.

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The thought is that it is much easier to get people to quit drinking if you find a biblical argument against it. In that way it is elevated to the status of a sin. The problem is that one loses the force of the medical argument against imbibing and no benefit from presenting it as a faux sin.

Presence said:

What I said is, it seems to me that the doctrines of the SDA church stem from EGW's teachings. I believe she was among other things a false prophet.

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She can't be a false prophet since she never claimed to be a prophet. You must be careful not to place too much confidence in a lot of what some people may say about EGW. A lot of times what they claim she has said is contradicted by things she herself wrote.

statrei said:

She can't be a false prophet since she never claimed to be a prophet. You must be careful not to place too much confidence in a lot of what some people may say about EGW. A lot of times what they claim she has said is contradicted by things she herself wrote.

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What I've discovered is most SDA know less about the history of the church and the doctrine then I do after only a short time of study.

Also, EGW made many prophecies, whether she made claim to the "title" is irrelevant. She most assuredly prophesied.

Pat Robertson, is also a false prophet (I'm sorry to say) though as far as I know he's never claimed to be a prophet.

I think perhaps I'm to heart-sick over this subject to continue.

Believe what you will.

My advice, study what EGW prophesied, against what actually happened. The material is available, all in her own words.

One final note: Jesus, is the Saviour, in Him we are saved, in Him alone!

This is far to painful a subject for me to continue. Test what you are being taught! Don't take it for granted it's the truth. Study, not SDA doctrine but the bible and what EGW actually said; the two do not agree.

Truly, I'm sorry! It hurts my heart, I thought this would be fun. But it is too sorrowful for me to continue. I am too burdened with sorrow to debate this issue.

God grant (all of us) that our eyes be open to the truth.

Goodbye!

Presence said:

Truly, I'm sorry! It hurts my heart, I thought this would be fun. But it is too sorrowful for me to continue. I am too burdened with sorrow to debate this issue.

God grant (all of us) that our eyes be open to the truth.

Goodbye!

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My apologies. I did not realize you were debating EGW. She has been dead for almost 100 years.

Presence said:

My advice, study what EGW prophesied, against what actually happened. The material is available, all in her own words.

One final note: Jesus, is the Saviour, in Him we are saved, in Him alone!

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Something is strange here. Why do you want me to study what EGW prophecied if Jesus is my Saviour? (I noted the British spelling). She can't save me, can she?

Presence said:

What I've discovered is most SDA know less about the history of the church and the doctrine then I do after only a short time of study.

Also, EGW made many prophecies, whether she made claim to the "title" is irrelevant. She most assuredly prophesied.

Pat Robertson, is also a false prophet (I'm sorry to say) though as far as I know he's never claimed to be a prophet.

I think perhaps I'm to heart-sick over this subject to continue.

Believe what you will.

My advice, study what EGW prophesied, against what actually happened. The material is available, all in her own words.

One final note: Jesus, is the Saviour, in Him we are saved, in Him alone!

This is far to painful a subject for me to continue. Test what you are being taught! Don't take it for granted it's the truth. Study, not SDA doctrine but the bible and what EGW actually said; the two do not agree.

Truly, I'm sorry! It hurts my heart, I thought this would be fun. But it is too sorrowful for me to continue. I am too burdened with sorrow to debate this issue.

God grant (all of us) that our eyes be open to the truth.

Goodbye!

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Boy oh boy oh boy.....if anyone has a mental issue it's not us.

What drug were THEY on?

The two do not agree....well I guess if you can't read nor comprehend what you read, then that might be true for you.

Have another drink....it'll settle your nerves.

Presence said:

Ok, you made me laugh, thanks, I enjoyed that. Laughter is healthy!

If you study the bible, and not SDA doctrine, it seems impossible for one to draw many of the conclusions steming from SDA doctrines. They seem to emanate from that luny lady EGW, who was in my opinion, either crazy, or simply a charlatan.

But we seemed to get off the issue: drinking (my fault).

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Ok, first of all, for someone who said they didn't want to give any false impressions, you're doing a fine job. You said in one post you are NOT SDA, then in another that you are. Make up my mind.

Secondly, whether one believes in Ellen White as a prophetess is totally up to the individual, no one forces us to believe that. That being said, I'm here to tell you that if you can call the woman "looney", then there must be more than one Ellen White. For whether you believe she was a prophetess or not, there is NOTHING about her that would cause one to believe she was crazy.

You sound a little "off" yourself, and I'm not saying that to be cruel. No one forced you to attend a Seventh-day Adventist church, if you aren't happy there, leave, but have the maturity to do so quietly.

If you read the general rules of posting here, you will find that you are not allowed to do what you are doing...without the icon showing that you are Seventh-day Adventist, you are only permitted to ask questions here...you are not allowed to degrade, flame, or debate issues with us.

But in case you were attending a "sect" of the SDA church, and not a General Conference Seventh-day Adventist church, let me assure you that we do not pray to Ellen White, or in any way attempt to use her as an "intercessor". She has nothing to do with our salvation, and if anyone has told you we believe she does, they have lied to you.

I'm still trying to figure out how a discussion on alcohol consumption led to this debate on Ellen White....

I'm hoping she was so sorrowful, that this won't even be read.

SassySDA said:

Ok, first of all, for someone who said they didn't want to give any false impressions, you're doing a fine job. You said in one post you are NOT SDA, then in another that you are. Make up my mind.

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Yeah, I have to agree with you Sassy, in post #118 (page 12) he says he isn't SDA then later in post #127 (page 13) suddenly he is "technically" an SDA. I guess the question is, was he baptised into the Adventist church? If not, then neither "technically" or otherwise he is not SDA.

Yeah, I can't take anyone seriously when they don't even know what denomination they are. And when they contradict themselves so quickly I have to ask were they lying then or lying now?

Call me crazy but.....

oops - disregard this post. Computer was acting sluggish and I hit the post button again.

PaleHorse said:

Yeah,

Call me crazy but.....

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ok you're crazy

JonathanSDA living word said:

ok you're crazy

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Whahahaha! You too, bro!

Luke 18:10 - Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.


11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.


12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.


13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.


14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



It is my sincere prayer this morning that we can focus on what's important and quit allowing ourselves to be baited into debates. De-bait yourselves (that was an unintentional play on words, but it works here so I'm leaving it).


I just have a hunch that the people that want to speak to us in condescending tones and with hostility as a motive, would never dream of doing so face-to-face. People say things on a computer, in the safety of their own homes, that they wouldn't dream of saying to a person's face. Is that any better than finding bravery in a bottle? No. If it's how they feel deep down and cannot suppress it, then they have to answer to the Maker eventually. Adventists are not the enemy, we love God very much and serve Him in our households.


I get frustrated on here too, and I absolutely won't put up with rude personal attacks.

My teacher is the Holy Spirit, not someone on a message board. I can't control what other people think though, all I can do is utilize the help this site has provided.


One thing's for sure, people that talk to us that way, would never dream of talking to God like that. I mean seriously, what does he say in prayer "Lord, I'm sure glad I'm not Adventist even though I've decided to go to an Adventist church for some odd reason. I'm just glad I'm sooo much better than them"? Please. He slipped up and proved himself to be untruthful. We need to pray for him and move on.

Well I certainly enjoyed all of your posts!

I was attacked personally several times I note. It was suggested I was drunk, or using drugs, had mental issues, or a liar, and confused about my faith!

I joined the SDA Church and was baptized many years ago. Haven't attended the church regularly for at-least five years. Only go sometimes to help out with certain functions (to help my spouse).

Shortly after I joined I began a serious in depth study of the chuch history, EGW writings, etc. At which point I became seriously dissolusioned with the whole thing. So I stopped going and began fellowshiping elsewhere.

I've never been removed from the church as a member. I don't believe in the doctrines of the church and believe they are contrary to the word of God. When I say I'm not an SDA it's true in that I don't believe in the SDA doctrine, at all. Technically, however, I'm an SDA: that's what my spouse keeps telling me anyway, "you were baptized"

How that effect me now I can't see because I denounce the SDA Church wholeheartedly believing it to be a false religion.

I said I was sorry last night because it's hurts me to see people lost in the fog of false doctrine. I've been dealing with it for years. It is very sad and disheartening.

I'm sorry to have caused such a fuss, I'm new to this areana and at first didn't know I was in a strictly SDA forum. I just did a search on Alcohol and ended up here.

Well if you want to pick on me again go ahead. I'm not a liar, a drunk, a drug user, nor do I have any mental issues as it has been suggested! I'm not going to get upset about it though. Rather let me apologies for voicing my negative opinions regarding your faith and EGW.

As you pointed out this was not the right place for me to have done so.

May God's love and peace reign!