To Atheists

[meebs]

(Firstly, this may be the wrong forum, and if it is my apologies but I think it may be correct.)

To atheists... isn't it very depressing to be what you are, an atheist? I remember when I was one, and everything was very disheartening. I mean, to believe that by some random chance humans were created,
and now you're on one planet out of millions or even billions, and life generally sucks. Sure, some things are good, but in general life isn't all that grand. You go to school, college, work, retire, and die. Or you can be homeless, or your life could be nothing but sex parties.

My point is, there is such a slim chance that you will leave any large mark in human history such as those we learn about in history textbooks, that what is the point of living? You're just another person out of billions, to eventually die and everything will go on. And when you die and your mostly bad life is over (this is more of an opinion, though regarding work, colleges, etc. there leaves little free time to do what you please), you're gone. Forever.

Is that depressing to you? When I was an atheist, all of these thoughts were circulating throughout my mind and I thought of suicide numerous times. I mean, without a God or an afterlife, what's the point of really living when life is, at the least, 50% crappy? That is what was on my mind, anyways. So... what about atheists in this forum?T

im not an atheist becasue of how i feel. Same with the others here. and no i dont find it depressing. sure i find it sad how the the human race treat each other and treat life in general, but that doesnt mean i want to make up a god to make myself feel better about life! anyway, i get depressed for other reasons, most of them bio-chemical.

(im not saying thats how you did it, you may have other reasons).

 

[fatpie42]

I mean, without a God or an afterlife, what's the point of really living when life is, at the least, 50% crappy?

Let's get this straight. You are asking what is the point of living when there is no afterlife?

What is the point of living if there IS an afterlife. If there's better to come what worth has THIS life got? This life is surely pointless and worthless if an afterlife exists?

As for the 50% crappy thing, I think this is a glass half-full or half-empty kinda thing

Finally I have a question for you. I guess I'm wondering what difference God's existence or non-existence really makes?

 

[JGL53]

(Firstly, this may be the wrong forum, and if it is my apologies but I think it may be correct.)

To atheists... isn't it very depressing to be what you are, an atheist? I remember when I was one, and everything was very disheartening. I mean, to believe that by some random chance humans were created,
and now you're on one planet out of millions or even billions, and life generally sucks. Sure, some things are good, but in general life isn't all that grand. You go to school, college, work, retire, and die. Or you can be homeless, or your life could be nothing but sex parties.

My point is, there is such a slim chance that you will leave any large mark in human history such as those we learn about in history textbooks, that what is the point of living? You're just another person out of billions, to eventually die and everything will go on. And when you die and your mostly bad life is over (this is more of an opinion, though regarding work, colleges, etc. there leaves little free time to do what you please), you're gone. Forever.

Is that depressing to you? When I was an atheist, all of these thoughts were circulating throughout my mind and I thought of suicide numerous times. I mean, without a God or an afterlife, what's the point of really living when life is, at the least, 50% crappy? That is what was on my mind, anyways. So... what about atheists in this forum?T

Three things:

1. I've been an atheist for nearly TWICE as long as you have been alive (since 1977).

2. The last time I had any problem with depression was BEFORE I became an atheist.

3. Try and have a nice day - if you can. (I remember when I was a teenager. Life was indeed confusing back then.)

 

[Lucretius]

Knowing I will inevitably die does not change reality. I feel no need to get upset about unavoidable things (death obviously being one of these). I do not change my beliefs in regards to religion based on my feelings; I change them based upon what reason tells me, because ultimately what matters to me is understanding the universe in it's entirety. As long as there is more to know, more to learn about, I will find purpose in living. This is one obvious reason why eternal life would not prove interesting: there will eventually come a time where there is no incentive to live, just existence for existence's sake. After all knowledge is ascertained, and all fun is had, what then?

Atheism can involve a purposeful life, God is not needed to enjoy it. And though the ultimate reason for my atheism is that reason has driven me to it, the religious notion of Eternal Life sounds abhorrent to me, and a single lifespan is much more desirable.

 

[meebs]

the religious notion of Eternal Life sounds abhorrent to me, and a single lifespan is much more desirable.

Speak for yourself, eternal life sounds great to me but not the christian and religious ideal.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Speak for yourself, eternal life sounds great to me but not the christian and religious ideal.

I agree with that, though I'm fine with a finite life too. It's not how much life you have, but what you do with it.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste AS,

thank you for the post.

To atheists... isn't it very depressing to be what you are, an atheist?

not at all. in fact, it would seem to be less psychologically impactful then thinking that an invisible Big Brother is watching your every move, at least to my mind.

I remember when I was one, and everything was very disheartening.

how do you know that you were an atheist? perhaps you were agnostic?

I mean, to believe that by some random chance humans were created,

what does that have to do with anything? however, i'm unaware of any athiest that thinks that life came about by chance. that seems to be standard Christian rhethoric more than anything else.

and now you're on one planet out of millions or even billions,

billions upon billions upon billions. heck, it is rather naieve to think that life only exists on this one planetary body, so the numbers are likely far greater than we can imagine.

however, that is the case for all humans and, thus far, we seem to be doing ok with it.

and life generally sucks. Sure, some things are good, but in general life isn't all that grand.

hopefully, your adoption of a religious paradigm with help you with this need. naturally, this is not the case for all beings.

You go to school, college, work, retire, and die. Or you can be homeless, or your life could be nothing but sex parties.

all humans desire to live happy lives, free of harm and hardship. we all die, the only difference is when.

understanding of these facts of life within a well grounded mental outlook is far from depressing in my experience, though it can be difficult for the ego to accept.

My point is, there is such a slim chance that you will leave any large mark in human history such as those we learn about in history textbooks, that what is the point of living?

procreation. there is no other point to life. if you are concerned about being famous and wealthy then those are rather seperate issues.

You're just another person out of billions, to eventually die and everything will go on.

correct, this physical form will revert to its basic elements: star dust.

whilst "i" have never been born and thus "I" cannot die. call it a different outlook

And when you die and your mostly bad life is over (this is more of an opinion, though regarding work, colleges, etc. there leaves little free time to do what you please), you're gone. Forever.

speak for yourself, young one. it may be your experience of life is negative that, however, is not shared by all beings.

Is that depressing to you?

not in the least. what depresses me most often is beings engaged in unskillful actions.

So... what about atheists in this forum?T

it would seem, on the surface at least, that we are nothing like you in our views. naturally, your views will change as you become exposed to new phenomena and, perhaps, your views that you currently maintain will prove to be insufficient as you gain in wisdom.

i can, of course, only speak for myself. this current arising is wonderful! a human form and the Dharma in the West! it couldn't get much better

metta,

~v

 

[Lucretius]

Speak for yourself, eternal life sounds great to me but not the christian and religious ideal.

Wouldn't you get… bored?

 

[Asimov]

To atheists... isn't it very depressing to be what you are, an atheist? I remember when I was one, and everything was very disheartening. I mean, to believe that by some random chance humans were created,
and now you're on one planet out of millions or even billions, and life generally sucks. Sure, some things are good, but in general life isn't all that grand. You go to school, college, work, retire, and die. Or you can be homeless, or your life could be nothing but sex parties.

Well that's entirely your perspective. It sounds like your problem is just your entire outlook on life that you need something external to give yourself meaning.

My point is, there is such a slim chance that you will leave any large mark in human history such as those we learn about in history textbooks, that what is the point of living? You're just another person out of billions, to eventually die and everything will go on. And when you die and your mostly bad life is over (this is more of an opinion, though regarding work, colleges, etc. there leaves little free time to do what you please), you're gone. Forever.

So?

Is that depressing to you? When I was an atheist, all of these thoughts were circulating throughout my mind and I thought of suicide numerous times. I mean, without a God or an afterlife, what's the point of really living when life is, at the least, 50% crappy? That is what was on my mind, anyways. So... what about atheists in this forum?T

I rest my case.

 

[meebs]

Wouldn't you get… bored?

with an infinite universe.... no!

okay, how about i'd love to live a very very long time (without the nasty aging effects)

(hey and you can get ridicoulously bored in a very short life span - i know this)

 

[Eudaimonist]

Wouldn't you get… bored?

I'm not easily bored. And there is a whole Universe to explore.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[michabo]

I'm not easily bored. And there is a whole Universe to explore.

Picture exploring the different solar systems and watching the life that you find. For 25 bilion years. You explore the geography of different moons, comets, celestial events like supernovae, for another 25 billion years. Time passes... Now it's 500 billion years after you died and the stars themselves have died. The universe is a cold, thin, dark wasteland of radiation.

No life, no stars.

You really have seen it all.

Your sentence of eternal life is just beginning.

 

[Eudaimonist]

No life, no stars.

You really have seen it all.

Your sentence of eternal life is just beginning.

Then I engage in silent contemplation and achieve Buddhahood. And Buddhas don't mind cold, thin, dark wastelands.

Oh, okay. I'll state my usual exception clause -- I don't want enforced immortality, but rather a self-determined lifespan. This allows me to avoid the Twilight Zone ending.


eudaimonia,

M.

 

[CSmrw]

I wonder if boredom might not be a state tied to the reality of knowing you will die,and that moments wasted are subconsciously converted to the kind of anxiety which translates into boredom. If you were no longer in danger of death, would extreme periods of inactivity still bother you? And if the universe is, as some speculate, tidal or fluxating in nature, wouldn't you be able to simply wait for the next period of universal activity? Further, if as quantum theory (torturedly) suggests, each universe is constantly spwaning universes containing all the potentials that DIDN'T come to pass in this universe, how many eternities could one spend exploring these potentialities?

Conversely, without the threat of demise, what is the impetus to explore at all? Exploration, I think it can be argued, is adirect result of the need in most organisms to find a more accomodating environment in which to breed. If you don't die, breeding is no longer an issue, so exploration might be as useless and overbreeding and tribalism has become for modern humanity, only having died it might be reasonable to assume you will no longer even possess the animal instincts of average human beings anymore.

No, I do not overthink things.

 

[ApocryphaNow]

I think we scared the Christians off... again.

 

[Asimov]

We wouldn't have any concept of time in an eternal setting, so no, I don't think I would get bored.

 

[meebs]

Picture exploring the different solar systems and watching the life that you find. For 25 bilion years. You explore the geography of different moons, comets, celestial events like supernovae, for another 25 billion years. Time passes... Now it's 500 billion years after you died and the stars themselves have died. The universe is a cold, thin, dark wasteland of radiation.

No life, no stars.

You really have seen it all.

Your sentence of eternal life is just beginning.

by then you could have discovered new and completely different laws. this may allow you to time travel, or to see things from new perspectives or discover new and different universes. Really from what you know now things would seem boring, but there are things we just dont know.

Marty, you're not thinking fourth-dimensionally! (BTTF).

 

[michabo]

Really from what you know now things would seem boring, but there are things we just dont know.

That sounds interesting for a while. A hundred years. A million. A billion, maybe. Let's say it's interesting for a thousand billion years (not that I think even Earth's history would be anything but tedious in real time). But that's still an eye blink to eternity.

Let's say you discover a thousand civilizations in our universe and watch them all. Let's say you watch, in real time, the lives of all animals from trilobites to whatever survives us on each of a thousand civilizations. That's still only about ten thousand billion years of entertainment.

No matter how you slice it, there will always be a finite amount of things to see and do which could possibly be called interesting, and an infinite amount of time to kill. People, even as spirits, will go insane. Eternal life sounds indescribably horrible.

 

[JGL53]

That sounds interesting for a while. A hundred years. A million. A billion, maybe. Let's say it's interesting for a thousand billion years (not that I think even Earth's history would be anything but tedious in real time). But that's still an eye blink to eternity.

Let's say you discover a thousand civilizations in our universe and watch them all. Let's say you watch, in real time, the lives of all animals from trilobites to whatever survives us on each of a thousand civilizations. That's still only about ten thousand billion years of entertainment.

No matter how you slice it, there will always be a finite amount of things to see and do which could possibly be called interesting, and an infinite amount of time to kill. People, even as spirits, will go insane. Eternal life sounds indescribably horrible.

At one time I would find no flaw in your logic. Interestingly, though, the Hindus found a solution to this dilemma about, oh, five thousand years ago in the idea of the "Divine Self".

Philosopher Alan Watts has the best explanation of this - I'll look for it on line and see if there is a link. Anyway, in a nutshell, it is a pantheism wherein god is nonetheless a "self" who purposely forgets he even exists, in order to have fresh experiences.

Those persons who become "enlightened" are those who have reached a realization that they are god and all is god and all of observed reality is a temporal or transitory dream/reality, or so-called "Maya".

This is quite counterintuitive to an occidental, but once you read the full explanation, you can see it is logical sound and thus possible (though perhaps forever beyond proof or disproof in a scientific/rational way). But we are just speculating here anyway, right?

 

[aca_rev55]

(Firstly, this may be the wrong forum, and if it is my apologies but I think it may be correct.)

To atheists... isn't it very depressing to be what you are, an atheist? I remember when I was one, and everything was very disheartening. I mean, to believe that by some random chance humans were created,
and now you're on one planet out of millions or even billions, and life generally sucks. Sure, some things are good, but in general life isn't all that grand. You go to school, college, work, retire, and die. Or you can be homeless, or your life could be nothing but sex parties.

My point is, there is such a slim chance that you will leave any large mark in human history such as those we learn about in history textbooks, that what is the point of living? You're just another person out of billions, to eventually die and everything will go on. And when you die and your mostly bad life is over (this is more of an opinion, though regarding work, colleges, etc. there leaves little free time to do what you please), you're gone. Forever.

Is that depressing to you? When I was an atheist, all of these thoughts were circulating throughout my mind and I thought of suicide numerous times. I mean, without a God or an afterlife, what's the point of really living when life is, at the least, 50% crappy? That is what was on my mind, anyways. So... what about atheists in this forum?T

Life is a beautiful thing.

As an Atheist, it's a beautiful thing, and as a person it's a beautiful thing. It seems to me, my friend, that here it's only your perspective that is bleak. It's not depressing to me. I go to school to learn, and to experience. I've just recently enlisted my name into the U.S Air Force, and I am so excited. I'm going to live my life to the fullest. As full as I can get it. I do not believe in any god, but why should that stop me from loving life? From believing that life is a wonderful thing?

Just look around you. Everything is real; the trees, the flowers, the birds, the sky and the stars. I don't need to know how they got here, all I need to know is that they ARE here. All around me. And who is to say that someone can't make a huge mark in history? And even if they can't, why should that matter? Many of us do not want to make a large mark in history. I, personally, just want to live. To breathe, and to know I'm alive and that I'm in control of everything I do.

So I guess to answer your question... no, for me, it's not depressing to be an Atheist. Besides, I don't really feel my it's necessarily my "choice" to be so. I just don't believe. And to me it doesn't matter. I love life, and life seems to love me back... even when things don't turn out, or it sends to me bed with tears in my eyes. Everything is worth it.

-Rev