To Atheists: Message from a Priest

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Fr. Casey is a priest I've really come to admire, with fantastic talks on many topics, but it's really his delivery that stands out. He actually puts thought into what he says, and does so in an exceptionally respectful way; grounded in his beliefs, and standing strong as a peacemaker in the way he shares his thoughts.

Yet even so, this video caught me off-guard. I'm not aware of many open letters to atheists from religious people, and I imagine most of them are set on condemning or converting you. This is a 5-minute voice message, from a consecrated religious man to those who reject God entirely, with good questions & deep respect.

And while anyone may reply, I would like to especially give room for the atheists to share their thoughts here.

 

[Occams Barber]

Fr. Casey is a priest I've really come to admire, with fantastic talks on many topics, but it's really his delivery that stands out. He actually puts thought into what he says, and does so in an exceptionally respectful way; grounded in his beliefs, and standing strong as a peacemaker in the way he shares his thoughts.

Yet even so, this video caught me off-guard. I'm not aware of many open letters to atheists from religious people, and I imagine most of them are set on condemning or converting you. This is a 5-minute voice message, from a consecrated religious man to those who reject God entirely, with good questions & deep respect.

And while anyone may reply, I would like to especially give room for the atheists to share their thoughts here.

I assume you found this kid on YouTube. I suggest you return him from whence he came.

In short - smarmy, arrogant and oozes insincerity.

If this squirt knew the first thing about atheists he would also know that atheists don't 'practice' atheism. He would also know that atheists are atheists because they find no reason to believe in gods. That's it. There's no way to be 'good' at atheism.

Like many Christians who attempt to understand atheism his understanding confuses atheism with the Christian conception of practicing a faith.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

Mmm. Just what I needed. Some kid explaining that I should really think about life's great questions. And then challenge his beliefs. With questions that no-one has asked before. Maybe he thinks there are some he hasn't been asked. Maybe if he thought long and hard he could think of those himself and challenge his own beliefs. He's the best person to do so.

Here's a tip for the lad. All the great questions have been asked. And answered. At least to the satisfaction of some. And some Christians and some atheists and some Muslims and some Hindus and some Jews are happy with the answers. Some have thought long and hard about them. Some haven't. Some people decide that a Christian (or atheist or Muslim or Hindu) life is the only one that makes sense. And some just follow the religion, or lack of religion, into which they were brought up. That's the vast majority.

And a dig against Dawkins? Well, he ain't no theologian. He's a scientist (and not actually an atheist - he classes himself as an agnostic). And his responses to some religious arguments are indeed relatively simple and light-weight. Because most of the arguments he counters are mostly simplistic and inconsequential.

And I hope Casey expresses some humility in accepting the need for doubt in whatever other videos he might have presented. I'd hate to think that someone so young could be so sure of anything.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Frankly after an earlier condescending video from this dude, I have no interest in what he has to say. (It may even have been this video. I don't know.)

If there is some particular question or idea he raises you'd like to talk about I (and many others) would potentially be interested in discussing. (Be warned that the powers that be at CF severely limit some of our possible replies.)

Cheers.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

Frankly after an earlier condescending video from this dude,

Okay, for purposes of this subforum, let's keep the talk to his delivery. There's already countless threads to argue the merits of theism or atheism, eh?

In this video, Fr. Casey mentioned some of the best atheist thinkers. Not just the easy-to-beat atheists who don't discuss the matter deeply (as @Bradskii rightly called out about Dawkins), but people who actually make theists of all kinds really flesh out their beliefs if they are to respond. Fr. Casey gave no "turn or burn" condemnation against you; he gave no insults to your beliefs (or lack thereof); he avoided the typical cringe-worthy arguments (ie., if there's no God, then murder is fine). A deeply religious person gave a message specially for those with no religion, mentions high-performance good people who cling to no religion, and mentions that atrocities have been committed the name of religion.

And even if it has room for improvement, but he made this video as someone who surely has a vast majority of his followers being religious, is a sign of fellowship unto itself. Yes, @Occams Barber , he's coming at it from an overly Christian angle, just as your post is from an atheist angle; yet it is mostly Christians who watch his videos, so the Christian angle likely makes more Christians more open to hearing a respectful message about atheism.

My question to you is...if this makes him condescending.....what do you think a respectful delivery looks like? How could he have done it better?

I'm bad at conclusions.

 

[Occams Barber]

I'm bad at conclusions.

We've talked about this in the past Alex. You tend to lack a critical eye. You take people at face value and are easily impressed by people like Casey.

Look at the 3 replies you got from me, @Bradskii and @Hans Blaster . They all arrived within 2 minutes of each other leaving no time for us to compare answers. You'll see that we all independently reached a similar conclusion about your boy genius - his delivery is childish, arrogant, insincere and condescending. He has no real conception of atheism.

If we three could instantly see that your 'Father' (I can't say that with a straight face ) Casey was too clever by half maybe you've missed something.

OB

EDIT

You also asked how he could have done better.

I judge Christians by their actions. His best bet was to shut up.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

My question to you is...if this makes him condescending.....what do you think a respectful delivery looks like? How could he have done it better?

I'm bad at conclusions.

What really rattled my cage is his implications. That he's studied this in depth. He's read the philosophers. He's done the hard yards. He's solved the mystery. And then he effectively wants to ask atheists if they've really put the time in themselves to be able to come to a conclusion.

Well, personally speaking, I'd say that your average atheist has indeed put some time into it. And it would be a lot more time that your average Christian. Because Christianity used to be, and still is in many places, the default position. For example, it was not that many years ago that my wife stopped putting C of E down in any box that asked for one's religion. Because 'that's how I was brought up'. But she no more believes in God than I do.

So his question should have been directed to his own flock. And rather than asking a few of us if we are 'good atheists', he should be more concerned whether his congregation are good Christians. He should be worried that a great deal of his fellow Americans think that the planet is only 6,000 years old and people use to ride around on dinosaurs. That would appear to me to be a much more important matter for him to deal with rather than whether I have read Kierkegard.

He should get his own house in order before he starts preaching (especially as a Catholic where the 'rules' are quite explicit). Notwithstanding that I've a few more decades under my belt pondering life's mysteries than he has...

 

[keith99]

I am an agnostic atheist. I see no reason to devote a large part of my time to seeing why others do not believe that is any god or gods. Expecting me to do so is like asking someone who is not a soccer fan to spend a lot of their time learning why others who do not like soccer do not like soccer.

I did however read the Bible a couple of times. If I were to follow some god it surely would not be that one. It makes me wonder just how many Christians have ever read their holy book.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Frankly after an earlier condescending video from this dude, I have no interest in what he has to say. (It may even have been this video. I don't know.)

Turns out it's the same condescending video from this callow youth.

"Are you a good atheist?"

The only way to be a "bad atheist" is to believe in god.

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I see no reason to devote a large part of my time to seeing why others do not believe that is any god or gods. Expecting me to do so is like asking someone who is not a soccer fan to spend a lot of their time learning why others who do not like soccer do not like soccer.

An entirely valid point. Perhaps this video is better intending towards the atheists who argue about religion. Assuning you're not a soccer fan...asking you to study why people like soccer may be pointless, but if you are persistently arguing with people about soccer, I would expect you to know what you're talking about. So someone who's not interested in religion in the first place might not get a lot out of this video, but someone who has some investment in religious discussions or ideas might have a better experience with his talk. Does that make sense?

What really rattled my cage is his implications. That he's studied this in depth. He's read the philosophers. He's done the hard yards. He's solved the mystery. And then he effectively wants to ask atheists if they've really put the time in themselves to be able to come to a conclusion.

Well, personally speaking, I'd say that your average atheist has indeed put some time into it. And it would be a lot more time that your average Christian. Because Christianity used to be, and still is in many places, the default position. For example, it was not that many years ago that my wife stopped putting C of E down in any box that asked for one's religion. Because 'that's how I was brought up'. But she no more believes in God than I do.

So his question should have been directed to his own flock. And rather than asking a few of us if we are 'good atheists', he should be more concerned whether his congregation are good Christians. He should be worried that a great deal of his fellow Americans think that the planet is only 6,000 years old and people use to ride around on dinosaurs. That would appear to me to be a much more important matter for him to deal with rather than whether I have read Kierkegard.

He should get his own house in order before he starts preaching (especially as a Catholic where the 'rules' are quite explicit). Notwithstanding that I've a few more decades under my belt pondering life's mysteries than he has...

Most of his other videos are directed at Christians. His video on Confession is one of the best that I've seen, auntie addresses Lent, the Franciscans, and plenty of other religious topics. Seems as if he has put plenty of effort into getting his own house in order before making this video. Suppose you make plenty of videos directed at "your own people", whoever they may be. Why not make a few videos aimed at a different group of people? Even if his inexperience & misunderstandings with atheism show, he made an effort to reach out to your folks, which is more than I can say for most Christians.

 

[Bradskii]

Even if his inexperience & misunderstandings with atheism show, he made an effort to reach out to your folks, which is more than I can say for most Christians.

Invite him over here for a chat. I'm sure some of us would simply love the opportunity for a discussion. That would be worthwhile (in fact I might see if I can find some contact details). Asking us if we have really thought about our personal positions has started him off on the wrong foot before he's even started to make his own case.

 

[Bradskii]

Email sent to the guy:

Father,

Someone on Christian Forums recently posted a link to one of your videos where you addressed atheists in general. I believe it was titled 'An Open Letter To Atheists'. Some atheists, myself included, were somewhat dissmissive and a discussion took place about the pros and conns of what you had attempted to do.

It was suggested that it would be an excellent idea if you were invited onto the forum so that we could discuss your position and give you the opportunity to expand on what you had said in the video (Christian Forums).

I'm sure you're a busy man, so I can understand if you pass on the invitation. But if you do accept I'm sure we'd all appreciate the opportunity to talk to you.

Many thanks

 

[Occams Barber]

Looks like someone has already answered Casey.

This is another YouTube video where a very articulate atheist politely disarticulates our young friend.

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OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Looks like someone has already answered Casey.

This is another YouTube video where a very articulate atheist politely disarticulates our young friend.

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OB

I just read through the comments under the video. One comment in three refers to Casey as 'arrogant', 'condescending' or 'smug'.

It appears our collective opinion was on the money.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

I just read through the comments under the video. One comment in three refers to Casey as 'arrogant', 'condescending' or 'smug'.

It appears our collective opinion was on the money.

OB

I watched it a couple of days ago. It came up as one of the videos associated with our chum, Casey. I was as impressed by the response about as much as I was unimpressed by the original.