Tithing!

[Don Oscar]

What do you make of this situation in the Book of Acts?

Sharing in All Things

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
36 And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, 37 having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet. Acts 4:32-37

1) I say that it has nothing to do with tithe. Selling all at once, and giving it all at once has no point in common with the practice of giving 10% every month

2) I say that not all that the first christians did is something we have to do. they did many wrong things; this is one example. Few years later they went bockroupt and needed the assistance of the gentile church.

 

[Don Oscar]

Hi friend!
So only those who 'grew things' could give a tithe then?

That was in the OT. Only people owning land did tithe. In the NT nobody tithe, nobody at all.

 

[sunlover1]

Giving is great, to the poor, or if one feels led to share with a certain ministry, but we are not under compulsion.

Isn't giving to the poor a commandment? Thus compulsory?
But I understand what you are saying here. And I never give
out of compulsion, well, except when God compels me to give

There are no NT teachings on tithing.

Thank you Frog friend.

It is nice to know your personal opinion; but I believe that this thread is not about personal feelings or thots; but about biblical doctrine.

Good point Don. And yes I am interested in facts, but I also believe that
Bbbbbb was speaking from his understanding and not feelings, imo.

IMO the Bible teach that Christians can not answer to God´s love by giving money. IMO this is insulting the price He paid in the cross. Also IMO it is a easy way to get away from our responsabilities and compromises...by giving money we free our selves from giving us selves.

Thanks for sharing your opinions.
I guess I really look at it much differently.
For me, to give (monetarily) to God is an act of worship,
much as giving of myself to Him. But why not? I show my
love to my kids by baking for them, by buying things I know
will make them smile.. and by saving up an inheritance
(money) to bless them (as is Scriptural)
We show love to our loved ones by doing, giving etc.
How do we show our love to God? By doing for Him
(read His people), by giving to Him (read, His people)
Why not?

 

[sunlover1]

In the USA there is not state-funded Church. Let me use an example: in Germany both Catholicism and Lutheranism are the "state churches" which means that on your taxes you check Lutheran or Roman Catholic and 10% of your taxes go to that church. In a society such as that, which existed until the notion of Church-State separation, tithing would have gone to those who needed it in the local community. Those who are low on rent, need to buy food, etc etc.

Now in a world where the Church is not funded by the state than tithing is a bit more necessary and practical just for the church to survive and pay the bills and salaries.

I say tithe. If unable to tithe with your checkbook than tithe with your time. If you are truly blessed than tithe with both your checkbook and your time.

Great attitude!

 

[E.C.]

Now we heve a revealing thruth. Tithe has nothing to do with doctrine, Bible, or apostolic teachings. tithe isn a smart solution for a financial need. That is all. Tithe is a administration rule made by men in orther to provide money to the church. No conection at all with the biblical doctrine.

The biblical doctrine states that we (and the leaders of the church9 shall not concern for our needs, since the Father do concern allready and He will provide. Taking steps to provide our selfes is oposite to expecting in God. Taking steps by teching false doctrine is a deeper sin.

The survival of the church do not depend on the money we have. God need no money to make church survive. Money has not the power to survivive Christ church.

Uh, it actually does have a bit to do with doctrine, yet, we need to understand it in the context of one's culture and society. Hence, Christians are more likely to tithe in the US than in Europe.

In the early days of the Church the Christians were known by their love. With this love they helped each other out spiritually and financially. They did so by having their tithe being distributed by the local leadership to those who needed it most since the leaders knew who needed it most. In the USA we do not have the luxury of having 100% of the tithe go to those who need it since clergy need salaries, mortgages need paying and buildings need utilities.

There is a precedence for it, but it gets applied according to the needs of the local Church. Tithing is not a "false doctrine", it is just a misunderstood Christian practice often times confused for a "doctrine".

Great attitude!

Thanks

 

[Don Oscar]

Thanks for sharing your opinions.
I guess I really look at it much differently.
For me, to give (monetarily) to God is an act of worship,
much as giving of myself to Him. But why not? I show my
love to my kids by baking for them, by buying things I know
will make them smile.. and by saving up an inheritance
(money) to bless them (as is Scriptural)
We show love to our loved ones by doing, giving etc.
How do we show our love to God? By doing for Him
(read His people), by giving to Him (read, His people)
Why not?

That is for you. But we can not build a body of doctrine for each one of us. What is good for you is not good for Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Apostles and Paul.

 

[Standing Up]

Just to make things Biblically accurate here:

You could never substitute cash for the tithe. You could redeem the tithe, which means you had to have the tithe to begin with in order to buy it back. Small point, but important. The tithe was the crops, not the money. See Leviticus 27:31.

ONLY the tithe of crops could be redeemed. Animals (the lamb in your example) could never be redeemed. See Leviticus 27:33.

The Biblical tithe could never be money, and it could never come from income.

Thanks for the details.

Any thought on the third year tithe?

 

[Don Oscar]

Uh, it actually does have a bit to do with doctrine, yet, we need to understand it in the context of one's culture and society. Hence, Christians are more likely to tithe in the US than in Europe.

In the early days of the Church the Christians were known by their love. With this love they helped each other out spiritually and financially. They did so by having their tithe being distributed by the local leadership to those who needed it most since the leaders knew who needed it most. In the USA we do not have the luxury of having 100% of the tithe go to those who need it since clergy need salaries, mortgages need paying and buildings need utilities.

There is a precedence for it, but it gets applied according to the needs of the local Church. Tithing is not a "false doctrine", it is just a misunderstood Christian practice often times confused for a "doctrine".


Thanks

OK. Christian tithe is not a doctrine but a practice. It is like a pastor wearing tie; or women wearing long skirts. It has nothing to do with the scriptures, or with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. It is a smart way to get money from christians. It is as good as any other financial trick or solution. No connection whatsoever with the Bible.

 

[Standing Up]

That was in the OT. Only people owning land did tithe. In the NT nobody tithe, nobody at all.

Yes. And the reason in the OT was the Levites didn't have any land, no source of "income".

 

[GaryArnold]

Tithing is not a "false doctrine", it is just a misunderstood Christian practice often times confused for a "doctrine".

Tithing, as taught in today's church, is a false Biblical doctrine invented by church leaders around 1870.

1 - The Biblical tithe was never money, and never on anyone's income. Yet the Temple Tax had to be paid with money. They had money even in Genesis. Abram was rich in money. Wages were paid even in Genesis.

2 - The Biblical tithe always came from God's miracles - the miraculous increase of fruits and vegetables, and animals. FOOD.

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus called tithing a payment, and referred to it as matters of the law. The law ended. Are we respecting Jesus by tithing after He put an end to it by ending the laws? If I were to sacrifice one meal each week as a sin offerings, wouldn't that be disrespecting Jesus? He paid the price for sin, and He also took away the tithe. Trying to do either now is disrespecting our Lord.

The tithe ended per Hebrews 7:5,12,18. In Hebrews 7:18 we are told that the commandment (referring to the word commandment in verse 5) was DISANNULLED.

The priesthood of Jesus Christ is superior to any other. Why would anyone want to bring forward an inferior method of financing into a superior priesthood?

Under the OT law, the priests did not tithe. In the NT, all born-again believers are part of a Royal Priesthood. As priests, we do not tithe. God never authorized any born-again believer to receive His tithe.

Why don't pastors have faith that God will provide for His Church? Actually, many do. Many don't teach the false doctrine of tithing. One mega church in Los Angeles does not teach tithing and they have no financial problems. The pastor, John MacArthur, puts His trust in God rather than man to provide the funds, and the money just keeps on coming in.

Many pastors know very well that tithing ended at the cross, but some of them flat out lie to their congregation, telling them they are robbing God if they don't tithe to the church. One such pastor even admitted it to me.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, according to our means, and according to our heart. Tithe means tenth. There is no teaching of a tenth in the New Testament.

In my opinion, one with a good attitude is one who wants to follow the scriptures, not one who thinks there way is better.

 

[Don Oscar]

Yes. And the reason in the OT was the Levites didn't have any land, no source of "income".

I guess a NT priest/patriarch/pastor who swore poverty might be an example of that (no income source) who needs support (though not defined as a tithe).

No land is no land; and no income is no income. At the time of the OT it was a lot of ways to earn money: soldier, carpenter, smith, fisherman, baker, commerciant, musician, doctor, painter, laundry, construction, clothing, and thousands more. No one of those income were prohibit for levites; and yet nobody of those activities were tithed.

Also it is not procedent to compare the Aaronic priests; with the job of a pastor.

 

[GaryArnold]

OK. Christian tithe is not a doctrine but a practice. ....It is a smart way to get money from christians. It is as good as any other financial trick...

That's all it is. A trick. Manipulating God's Word. Manipulating the children of God. And doing it all in the Name of Jesus! These men of Satan will have to account to God for this behavior.

 

[Frogster]

Yes. And the reason in the OT was the Levites didn't have any land, no source of "income".

I think it is great that paul had income from working.

 

[sunlover1]

Why don't pastors have faith that God will provide for His Church? Actually, many do. Many don't teach the false doctrine of tithing. One mega church in Los Angeles does not teach tithing and they have no financial problems. The pastor, John MacArthur, puts His trust in God rather than man to provide the funds, and the money just keeps on coming in.

And God does provide, does He use MEN to provide those funds?

Your post looks super interesting and I look forward to examining it
but right now I have to think about getting some sleep. Too much going
on this week.

 

[GaryArnold]

And God does provide, does He use MEN to provide those funds?

God puts it in the hearts of many to be generous givers. No need for the pastor to threaten using the curse in Malachi, or to lie about tithing. Pastors need to be preaching the gospel, not the false doctrine of tithing.

 

[Frogster]

God puts it in the hearts of many to be generous givers. No need for the pastor to threaten using the curse in Malachi, or to lie about tithing. Pastors need to be preaching the gospel, not the false doctrine of tithing.

the malachi one is a biggie, they love that verse, forgetting gal 3;13, and that it weas spoken to old cov people.

 

[Super Kal]

Malachi 3:8-10 has never been about us giving 10% of our monthly income to a church... those verses deal specifically with us living our lives as daily sacrifices to Christ.

i personally work at a church as a housekeeper that teaches this unbiblical doctrine, but i do not pay them from my check... i tithe them with my energy... and believe me, they get almost all the energy I can muster 40+ hours a week

 

[Don Oscar]

And God does provide, does He use MEN to provide those funds?

If God is using men to provide to the church; in that case it will be good for the church and the pastors make a complete silence concerning tithing and giving money. And you can start right now. If it is God, then we who are teaching not to tithe are words in the wind. All we can say will go away and men will continue to give. And you, by keeping in silence will prove that it is God moving men and not you moving them to give.

 

[Don Oscar]

God puts it in the hearts of many to be generous givers. No need for the pastor to threaten using the curse in Malachi, or to lie about tithing. Pastors need to be preaching the gospel, not the false doctrine of tithing.

Lets try out God; lets test him. Make silence deffending the tithe and see if it is actually God operating in men harts.

 

[Don Oscar]

Malachi 3:8-10 has never been about us giving 10% of our monthly income to a church... those verses deal specifically with us living our lives as daily sacrifices to Christ.

i personally work at a church as a housekeeper that teaches this unbiblical doctrine, but i do not pay them from my check... i tithe them with my energy... and believe me, they get almost all the energy I can muster 40+ hours a week

is it any biblical support for what you are doing?