Tithing

[Glorified]

Just curious to what this goes for? I can't see it really adding up to much in a smaller Church let's say.

Which brings me to my next question. By whom do the Pastors and the Administrative aids get paid? Where do these funds evolve from? Just curious.

God bless

 

[CrystalBrooke]

is that like taking up offering?

 

[Glorified]

I'm sorry yes. I thought the 2 were the same.

 

[daveleau]

The Pastors and assistants and administrators and all of the maintainers of the building are paid with the tithes. Everything that a church spends money on is paid with tithes, unless the church is large and has income from selling items or other sources. Some churches receive money through wills, as well. I know in Charleston, SC, several churches have large amounts of land that was given to them in wills. These are sold in times of need or used by members who need them. I do not think this is the norm, though.

God bless,
Dave

 

[muffler dragon]

If anyone in this forum is interested, I have enough information on the tithe to probably make you ill.

+

I completely accept offerings, +

If you would like to know I feel this way, we can discourse about it.

Otherwise, I can point you in the direction of some of where I have shared my thoughts before.

Go to the Non-denom forum and look up "The Laws of Sowing and Reaping Part I" and Part 2. Part 3 is a waste of time to look at.

Take care,

m.d.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Anyway... the tithe that some churches operates under today is without Scriptural foundation.

I completely accept offerings, but tithes are abused and irrelevant today.

If you would like to know I feel this way, we can discourse about it.

Interesting, I would like to know your thoughts on this.

 

[muffler dragon]

Interesting, I would like to know your thoughts on this.

I knew I would have to go ahead and provide it on here.

Not a problem, Andyman, your wish is my command. Here are the posts.

If you have further questions, please address them with me.

http://www.christianforums.com/t702633
posts 4,5, and 6

Plus, I have a paper on my computer from a Jew stating agreement with me, and I also have a summary sheet of my own. Just PM if you want me to email them to you.

m.d.

ps - I hope this doesn't destroy your image of me.

 

[bleechers]

I completely accept offerings, but tithes are abused and irrelevant today.

I concur. "Giving" is a NT concept, "Tithing" is of the Law.

I am also opposed to a "salaried clergy" as I can find neither in the NT church. I am all for supporting full-time Christian workers and teachers, but "salaries" are out.

 

[9-iron]

I am also opposed to a "salaried clergy" as I can find neither in the NT church.

Didn't Paul state that those who preach the gospel have the right to make a living from the gospel. He didn't and stated many times he never inconvenienced anyone by putting this right upon them. Never the less, he did envoke this right. I can't quote the exact scripture off the top off my head, but it is where he makes the 'don't muzzle the ox' reference.

 

[seebs]

The idea of "tithing" a fixed amount, especially a fairly high one, is indeed antithetical to Biblical teachings on the topic. We go over this every so often.

 

[BT]

I concur. "Giving" is a NT concept, "Tithing" is of the Law.

I am also opposed to a "salaried clergy" as I can find neither in the NT church. I am all for supporting full-time Christian workers and teachers, but "salaries" are out.

If a pastor is a full-time Christian worker... how does he get paid, if not by salary? Would it be hourly? Who determines the rate? How does he provide for his family?

Pastors don't only work on Sundays (I'm sure you realize this). A Pastor works all week, counselling, taking care of church business, visiting, preparing Sunday School and Bible Studies, and of course studying and Sermon preparation.

Tithing is an Old Testament concept it seems to be a good measuring rod for the Christian though. But if you don't want to give 10% you're not in danger of hellfire...

 

[seebs]

For what it's worth, my parents were fairly involved in a small-town church. They gave around 3%, and they were on the high end for how much they gave, and the church wasn't so short of money to be in any danger. 10% is a HUGE amount.

In fact, curiously, this lines up with the Old Testament teachings; the tithe is 10% of your income every year, but only one year in three do you give it to the priests. The rest of the time, you spend it on yourself in God's name. Odd how most people never actually read the passages...

 

[BT]

For what it's worth, my parents were fairly involved in a small-town church. They gave around 3%, and they were on the high end for how much they gave, and the church wasn't so short of money to be in any danger. 10% is a HUGE amount.

In fact, curiously, this lines up with the Old Testament teachings; the tithe is 10% of your income every year, but only one year in three do you give it to the priests. The rest of the time, you spend it on yourself in God's name. Odd how most people never actually read the passages...

Personally, I give 10% plus offerings. 10% is nothing. I can use the other 90% to buy myself some sneakers in "God's name". Odd how most people have a desire to store up earthly treasures, even if they are in "God's name" (not talking about you seebs).

If you happen to think that this quote is true or a great idea, do a quick Bible study on "Corban" and see what God thinks of it.

 

[bleechers]

If a pastor is a full-time Christian worker... how does he get paid, if not by salary? Would it be hourly? Who determines the rate? How does he provide for his family?

Fair questions.

He takes whatever is given to him. Paul didn't send a contract to the Philippians and negotiate a salary. He learned to live being abased or in abundance. The former should be a shame to a local church.

In short, he lives by faith. The system is alive and well in the Plymouth Brethren community. Not only are most of their full-time workers living on faith, they also support a good number of itinerant teachers who travel most of the year.

The reason this system is hard to implement, in the US anyway, is that massive amounts of giving go to para-church organizations and to building projects.

Also, the growth of the Mega-church is not a phenomenon of a great influx of souls being saved, rather it is a movement from smaller, local churches to the mega-churches, thus killing the small churches. Also, the properity gospel has concentrated church resources into the hands of a few teachers, thus starving funds from local teachers.

Pastors don't only work on Sundays (I'm sure you realize this). A Pastor works all week, counselling, taking care of church business, visiting, preparing Sunday School and Bible Studies, and of course studying and Sermon preparation.

This also touches on the one-man system that I also believe is unbiblical. The NT speaks of "elders" (plural). One may be the primary teaching and full-time worker that is called "Pastor" but we cannot expect one man to be gifted in every gift. The local Body of Christ should function in its gifts. A man may be a gifted teacher, but that does not make him able to administer a budget or comfort the sick. We all need to function in our gifts.

While I'm ranting this is why so many church members are untaught and blown about by every wind of doctrine... we rely on the "Pastor" to be the "educated one" who "knows about theology". In fact, the elders are under-shepherds chosen to protect the flock, but the sheep are individually responsible to be as knowledgable as they can be. The system many Baptist churches have is merely a shadow of the clergy/laity system leftover from some other church that will remain nameless...

This is also why we see so much "Pastor burnout." We're asking the hand to function as the whole body.

 

[the Colonel]

Personally, I give 10% plus offerings. 10% is nothing. I can use the other 90% to buy myself some sneakers in "God's name". Odd how most people have a desire to store up earthly treasures, even if they are in "God's name" (not talking about you seebs).

If you happen to think that this quote is true or a great idea, do a quick Bible study on "Corban" and see what God thinks of it.

Amen! My wife and I faithfully give 10%. Yes, we're not under the law, but if anything we are encouraged and even encouraged to give much more than 10%. Under the new covenant, we as Christians must be generous in our giving and have faith in God that He will provide.

We give 10% because it is a great discipline for us and it makes us rely on God for our needs --that he will also bless what we have given.

I work in sales, and sometimes I get a bunch of money all at once. 10% can seem like a big ouch, but I am overjoyed that God has blessed me so and that I can give back to Him even just a portion of what He has given me.

And, to keep you from bringing up "you must make a lot of money", I provide for my family with $22,000 per year before tithing. We have NEVER been in need! God will give you satisfaction with what you have when you rely on Him for your needs.

Just some thoughts.

--CK

 

[Andyman_1970]

In fact, curiously, this lines up with the Old Testament teachings; the tithe is 10% of your income every year, but only one year in three do you give it to the priests. The rest of the time, you spend it on yourself in God's name. Odd how most people never actually read the passages...

From what I understand from the OT, the tithe was livestock and grain/food only, no where is money indicated as to be given for the tithe.

Which brings up an interesting question, what about those Jews who did not raise livestock or grain/vergtables/fruit, like carpenters or metalsmiths? Were they required to tithe also, and if so how did they?

 

[seebs]

If you happen to think that this quote is true or a great idea, do a quick Bible study on "Corban" and see what God thinks of it.

I am inclined to trust the direct commandments at least somewhat.

[bible]Deuteronomy 5:22-29[/bible]

"And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"

If you don't like it, take it up with Him.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

My husband and I also faithfully give 10% every year.
Since we have been faithful his salary has doubled and we are almost out of debt! And we still give 10%!
Praise the Lord. You don't HAVE to but you will be soooooooo blessed if you do.
GEL

 

[bleechers]

GEL, this is not a sarcastic post (honestly), so let me ask some questions (I really am curious ).

1. Do you tithe 10% pre or post tax?
2. Do you tithe all 10% locally or do you support several ministries in that 10%?
3. Do you consider any gift of goods (non-cash) as part of any given 10%?

I am truly curious about all this. I wonder how different people view the 10%


On a different, but related note:

I heard of a Christian couple a few years back (in MN I think) who pledged $15,000 to some church, but they were under bankruptcy protection. They were sued by their creditors, but they fought it claiming they pledged it in the name of Christ.

I think, biblically, they owe their creditors first. In reality, that is not their $15K, it is the property of their creditors. Anyway, that's how I saw it. Any thoughts?

 

[adamdavid]

I give at least ten percent... it seems like such a small sacrifice... I realize I don't have to... Its not required of me as I'm no longer under 'the law', but God really does bless you back when you give to him! I don't have a job, so 10% Changes with every chunk of money I get, and sometimes I just decide to give the entire thing to God! I would probably just spend it at Starbucks anyway, and it always comes back to me bigger and better!

1. Do you tithe 10% pre or post tax?
2. Do you tithe all 10% locally or do you support several ministries in that 10%?
3. Do you consider any gift of goods (non-cash) as part of any given 10%?

1.)Because I don't have a 'real' job, and therefore pay no taxes, I can't really answer that, but if I did, no questions asked, God would get at least 10% of my pre-tax... he gave his life, why should I cheapen my thankyou note?
2.)My 'Tithe' goes to my local church, though until I found my current church, I was in the process of 'church-hopping' and didn't have a specific church to support... So, I would do with my tithe as the Lord led me... sometimes that was sending it to a ministry of choice, sometimes it was going down to a homeless person and taking them out to starbucks... just something to show someone Jesus' love (and no, I didn't take my drink out of the tithe budget! ), and I still occasionally do stuff like that, but whatever that takes goes above and beyond the tithe that already goes to my church...
3.)Nope... I deal only with money when it comes to figuring out my 10%! Its confusing enough that way... I wouldn't want to throw even more stuff into the equation! my non-mathematical mind just couldn't handle it! Anywho, most of the time when I give goods, its because I'm done with them, and would rather have someone get more use out of them than to think about them wrotting in some garbage dump somewhere...

Again, I really don't think that tithing any specific amount of money is required, but it seems like such a trivial amount to me that I just can't help but give it away! If its not for you, I hope you have some other way of giving back to god, and if your method works for you, good. 10% is an easy way for me to figure out what to give, and I tend to tip more than that at Starbucks, so in my mind, if my Barista gets that much, why shouldn't God? It may not be required, but it really is a blessing to be able to give, and I like it when I don't have to think too hard about how much to give

Blessings...
AdamDavid