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Tithing

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by TheBear, Mar 10, 2002.

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  1. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

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    Amen to that Truthseeker!
     
  2. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Droobie:

    God does not want us to be poor, but we still need to walk by faith ! Giving does not equal recieving, so thus, if you give , it does reap if you are poor.

    You are still preaching a give to get priciple that does not exist within the scriptures.

    God says in Malachi to "return" unto him, not give so that you will not be poor anymore ! Malachi 3:7

    The blessings and abundance have already been given, and God changes not !

    A person is poor for many different reasons. Which one would you suggest that they give , so that they can receive ? The man who does not work ? The person who uses their credit cards, so that they are in debt over their head ? I could go on, but I think you get the point.

    Also, the book of Acts tells us where our abundance ends up anyways. "To those who have need" !

    It is called - giving and receiving.

    Also look up Romans 15:25 - 29 - "the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ" ---- from the giving and receiving , both that which is a carnal need, as well as a spiritual need !

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  3. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

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    Hey Hervey,

    I agree with you fully. Perhaps my wording was not right in that I sound like I advocate giving for one's own gain. Nor do I believe that if you were in a position of financial difficulty that you should give in order to get out of it. Poor choice of scripture to illustrate what to do when you're poor financially... my bad.

    What I did mean was that you should believe that you are not destined to be poor. That you're not destined to be in debt. That you should be prosperous in all aspects of your life, and of course, that all comes from hard work and sound handling of your own finances. Never expect to be a millionaire just because you tithe/give. But do expect wealth and prosperity when you have God's will and purpose in mind with everything that you do, and everything that you give.

    You mentioned walking by faith. By faith you should believe in His word that we are to prosper. When I say prosper, biblically I do not mean someone who has 1 million dollars in their bank account, but someone who gives out of the goodness of their heart, with no debts over their heads, and continually seeking to give.

    Money in this world is only resource that we use to further the kingdom of God.
     
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Droobie:

    That is cleared up , so lets move on.

    The tithe is of the law , and should never be taught in any form unto the Church.

    It is not a minimum, nor is it a starting point, nor should it even be suggested.

    There was a "free will offering" given in the OT. I could provide scripture if you so desire.

    That is exactly what II Corinth. 9:7 is saying. In that, there is no bondage, and there was no bondage of the "free will offering" in the OT , while Israel was under the Law.

    Its late , and time for bed :)

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  5. bananaman

    bananaman Member

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    It is meant to show that even in the very beginning there was a part that belonged to G-d. To show that the principle is not just in the law.They also show the sabbath as another example.They compare the original sin of eating from the tree to robbing G-d of the tithe by using the forbidden portion(tithe). By wanting to control and be the decision makers instead of obeying G-d . It is an arguement used to show that not just in finances but in other areas as well, we are tested to see if we will respect the limits G-d has set and work 6 days instead of 7. and live on 90% instead of 100%.It is an attempt to show the connection between the original sin and robbing G-d of the tithe.
     
  6. bananaman

    bananaman Member

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    Also a point about the being poor issue. The scripture in Malachi was speaking to a group, not an individual. One reason so many are poor is because the corporate body of Christ is selfish and has an abundance which is spent selfishly. If the church taught as much the scriptures about helping the poor, there would be a lot less poor among us.
    As a father, I receive an abundance which I use to bless my children with. If my children are poor , than I get the blame not them. We live in such an individualistic soceity , that poor people in wealthy congregations are not only left "high and dry" but have insult added to injury by the church that should be caring for them beating on them emotionally for being poor.
    The church is supposed to be a family and I would be embarrassed if my brother in the natural was struggling financially and I stood by and did nothing.
    1John 3:17,18
    " If anyone has material possesions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of G-d be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth."
    By admiting that we see the poor among us and judging them instead of helping them, we are the guilty ones.
    Also James 2;5
    " Listen, my dear brothers: Has not G-d chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor."
    I could go on with dozens of verses about how G-d looks at the poor.
    Being poor is not pleasant. Yes G-d desires blessings for all of us. But sometimes, as in the case of persecution , we suffer for the sins of others. We live in a sinful world where sickness and poverty and violence many times effect the innocent.
    I am suggesting that rather than trying to judge our brothers, we should instead be looking at how we can help.

    To make an analogy, how would you feel if you went for prayer or help for an illness. and you were grilled about being overweight and about eating junkfood.I mean don't you
    know the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?I mean are you really meeting G-d's conditions?
    Well, it feels the same way when a person who is poor goes for prayer or help and is told> have you budgeted and been a good steward?are you tithing? And is grilled about all the conditions to be met for G-d to bless them.
    I'm very thankful that G-d sent Jesus to die for me while I was yet a sinner.
    It may sound very nice to many to say this is the condition to meet for special blessing.But as I pointed out before in an earlier post. This is no new thing. it was used by the pharisee's to add their requirements to G-d's word. The truth is that a lot of what is taught about tithing is man"s opinions.
    I love the church, but most churches I have gone to spend most of their budget on buildings and salaries for the ministers.Helping poor inside their own church is usually a tiny amount. what i would call the crumbs.The poor outside of their church are not even considered usually. I have seen church budgets that spent more on lawn maintianance then their whole budget for the poor put together.
    But that is the problem with judging. There is plenty of guilt to go around.
     
  7. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Here is an interesting site. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it does raise some other questions about tithing.

    Tithing

    John
     
  8. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +7
    Protestant
    I have a few questions on tithing.

    If nobody tithes, will the Church vanish?
    If nobody give money to the Church will God's will not be done?
    God is the source of our prosperity, does he abandon the church to fend for itself?

    Is tithing, and tithing 10% necessary to show God we love and worship Him?
    Does somebody who tithes 20% love God more?

    Does someone who tithes 5% of their $100 love God less than somebody who tithes 30% of their $100,000?

    Does God want to cause worry, and despair and financial trouble to those who tithe to little or to much money?
     
  9. Hervey

    Hervey Member

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    Tithe = a tenth - "only"

    You can not give a 5% tithe or a 30% tithe.

    even the Levites were required to give a tenth of the tithe they received.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  10. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +7
    Protestant

    OK LET ME REPHRASE.

    I have a few questions on giving money to the church.

    If nobody gives money to the church, will the Church vanish?
    If nobody gives money to the Church will God's will not be done?
    God is the source of our prosperity, does he abandon the church to fend for itself?

    Is giving 10% of your money necessary to show God we love and worship Him?
    Does somebody who gives 20% of their money love God more?

    Does someone who gives 5% of their $100 love God less than somebody who gives 30% of their $100,000?

    Does God want to cause worry, and despair and financial trouble to those who give to little or to much money?
     
  11. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    If nobody gives money to the church, will the Church vanish?

    No !

    If nobody gives money to the Church will God's will not be done?

    Yes

    God is the source of our prosperity, does he abandon the church to fend for itself?

    No !

    Is giving 10% of your money necessary to show God we love and worship Him?

    No No NO !!!!

    Does somebody who gives 20% of their money love God more?

    No

    Does someone who gives 5% of their $100 love God less than somebody who gives 30% of their $100,000?

    No

    Does God want to cause worry, and despair and financial trouble to those who give to little or to much money?

    No

    Being more specific would take too much of my time ! :D

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  12. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +7
    Protestant
    Thanks Hervey,

    Now why do so many people worry and despair over giving to the church?
     
  13. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
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    Because they are ignorant spiritually, as I once was also.

    I found out by reading the Word, and God opening up the eyes of my understanding.

    God does not dwell in temples made with hands. We are not told in the Word to be responsible for a building.

    We are the temple of God, and he dwells in us, and God put us in the body where it pleases him = The Church.

    Right teaching will get you anywhere. Whereas wrong teaching will put you under the yoke of bondage - guilt - dispair - worry - anxiety - doubt.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  14. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +7
    Protestant
    Thanks again Hervey.

    You gave the answers I was looking for. I hope people will read this thread, pray, and listen to what God is guiding them to do.
     
  15. TheBear

    TheBear NON-WOKED

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    Here's a different way to look at this. ;)

    God and the individual Christian have a joint account of all monies and properties. (After all, 100% of everything we own, belongs to God.) The individual has the freedom to spend or invest the money any way he/she wants. God is more or less the Financial Advisor in this partnership. The individual Christian has the choice to adhear or ignore what the Advisor suggests, (leads). This advice is subject to change, just like the stock market. For example, the individual sets a budget to give x amount of dollars per year, to their church. This is a reasonable way to invest. However, let's say there is a major fire in the church. A massive increase in donations are needed, to rebuild. Obviously, the individual will be led, (advised), to increase the church budget, (investment).

    The idea of giving to God, needs to be thrown out, completely. After all, a joint ownership of 100% of everything, is assumed.

    Good stewartship and listening to the advice of our Financial Partner is the key to how much, and how often one gives to any particular organization. And this will change from one person to the next. We are not all in the same financial boat or circumstances. And, not all contributions need to be financial. Volunteer work is an invaluable rescource in any church.


    John
     
  16. StogusMaximus

    StogusMaximus Well-Known Member

    +7
    Protestant
    I am with you Bear 100%.
     
  17. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

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    Here here! Everything we have, as Christians belongs to God. Our lives, our health, and all our material wealth. Everything we have is resource that helps us do His work in the world.
     
  18. bananaman

    bananaman Member

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    +0
    Deuteronomy 14:28,29
    " At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that years produceand store it in your towns, so that the Levites(who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens , the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, ..."

    Josephus is quoted as saying
    " Beside those two tithes which I have already said you are to pay every year, the one for the Levites,The other for the festivals, you are to bring every third year a tithe to be distributed to those in want; to wamen also that are widows, and to children that are orphans."

    There were three tithes given. One to the levites, a second for the festivals, and a third for the poor.
    The tithe taught in Christian churches is not the same as the tithe found under the law.

    Colossians 2:14 and romans 14 are good passages that speak about judging one another based on keeping sabbath and other expected observances.
     
  19. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

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    Perhaps the 'tithing' as described in the OT is not so much law today, as a 'good example' of what we should be giving. Some may argue that the OT tithing laws no longer apply to us, but they do serve as a good indication of where we can start.
     
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