Tithing:

[Andyman_1970]

I'd much rather ask the author what He meant, than try to figure it out for myself.

Without considering the historical and cultural context when seeking the meaning I would respectfully suggest that's how cults start..........(not that you are a member of a cult, I'm just indicating the importance of context).

 

[9-iron]

I'll be the first to admit that my bank account is not overflowing. But it's not because the tithing principle doesn't work. It's

There were no strings attached. God says test Him. Either it works or it doesn't. Besides if you are truly overflowing there should be enough to cover up you bad decision.

The problem is motive. When you start demanding to see a copy of my bank account, you've missed the point.

No, actually I see the point. The point is there is no validity to the Malachi arguement. If you want to give to bless do so, but don't use the Malachi story to back yourself up.

 

[JimB]

Neither is "trinity". Or find "rapture". Or how about "THE Anti-Christ". Let's not chase that rabbit trail.

Heck, even the word “Bible” is not in the Bible.

~Jim

 

[probinson]

Without considering the historical and cultural context when seeking the meaning I would respectfully suggest that's how cults start..........

I would suggest that cults start when people say they've heard from God, but really they've heard nothing.

I'm not interested in some man's opinion. Heck, I'm not even interested in my own opinion. I know how crazy I can be, and so did God apparently. My favorite scripture to demonstrate this is Duet. 30:19:

This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

God knew that some of us were dumb enough to make the wrong decision even when he gave us a no-brainer decision. Life/Death? Tough choice there. But God had to TELL us to choose life! That's how messed up man's logic is.

It seems like we will have to agree to disagree on this. I obviously will not convince you, nor will you convince me, that either of us has the correct interpretation of what is being said. I will simply state, once again, that I have seen the fruit of tithing in my own life, and as such, I will continue to bring my tithes and offerings to the storehouse 'til the day I die.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I'm not interested in opinions either, I'm interested in what actually happened 2000 years ago and the context in which it happened.

With all due respect you obviously have the wrong interpretation and have yet to cite Scritpure otherwise, which is fine that's your opinion...........

 

[probinson]

I'm not interested in opinions either, I'm interested in what actually happened 2000 years ago and the context in which it happened.

With all due respect you obviously have the wrong interpretation and have yet to cite Scritpure otherwise, which is fine that's your opinion...........

That's kind of contradictory, don't you think? You're not interested in opinions, but you want me to give you my opinion and show you the scripture? Nobody had to show me scripture. I looked it up myself.

You have a pre-conceived idea that tithing is unscriptural as is evidenced by you telling me I have the wrong interpretation. What could I possibly show you now to change that opinion? You're not listening any longer. You don't want to find the answer, you want to prove me wrong. The same goes for me. That's why this debate is pointless, and why I said we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[PentecostalEvangelist]

I wish I could be as I ought to be, and yet I cannot be as it is found in me, I am unknown, to myself, and to all I am not, and should not be, but where I am is my own sorrow, my own pain, my own misery, and I hear them all, crying, crying, crying out to me, voices of pain and sorrow, crying out to me, louder, and louder, and louder, graves, and graves, and graves call out to me come, come, come, I am, and yet, I should not be, Graves, Graves, Graves, voices of all who have hated me, from the dungeons of their sufferings, always calling out to me, day and night, sleepless, no peace shall I ever know, graves, and Graves, and graves, crying out my name, calling out to me, come, come, come.....

 

[KingdomScribe]

Jim, I don't base my beliefs on my experience, your experience or Joe Schmo's experience. I base my beliefs on what the Bible says.

I have tithed many times where I felt like it didn't "work". But you have to remember, I'm in this for the long haul. I know there are times when we must go through things, and though I may not understand at the time why it isn't "working", God has always shown me later the error of my ways.

Interestingly enough, we can turn around your last statement and say this instead.

Anyhow, it is your “interpretation” of what the Word says that we are discussing, Jim – not what the Word actually says. That is sort of the point. It has nothing to do with Joe Schmo.

probinson [Pete?] I've been following this senseless thread and have to say your tenacity for the Truth is encouraging to me. This isn't to say I need encouragement as to tithing... No way... Too much real life experience coupled with clear Scripture!!! (Oh my gosh...HECK...I just can't HELP using those nasty words...)

Truly, I salute you for your firm and clear stand.

One perspective I wanted to share with you though comes from the classic tale, Lord of the Flies, by William Golding. Simply put, this is a tale set on a deserted island in the warm waters of the South Pacific. Since the island itself provided both "shelter" (a mild climate) and food (fruit, wild pigs, etc.), then the plot could simply focus on the boys' interactions.

Here's my point: Having no adult leadership and no "father", the boys' society rapidly descended into a nightmarish frenzy manifesting man's instinctual sin nature. The key to this novel can be found in the book of Judges - one of the most nightmarish portions in all of Scripture. Its author repeats this line twice: "And every man did whatever seemed right in his own eyes..."

Something is missing in some of the posts on this thread (and, of course, others)... Many of those who are posting have wandered FAR AWAY from spiritual authority in their lives -- and they are left in that classic position: their only authority is their own selves, and they do "whatever seems right in their eyes."

There's a Wind blowing through your posts, though, Pete, that shows that you have come to God from a heart first committed to obediance... therefore you're able to discern what is from God. (Check out my signature, below, on this concept.)

Bless you!

KingdomScribe

 

[probinson]

Holy cow! Someone else believes in tithing? It's a miracle! I thought I was all alone out here. Thank you KingdomScribe!

 

[statrei]

If any would read Malachi properly they would find that Mal. 3:10 was not addressed to the people. But why allow a lilttle fact like that to interfere with a good fund-raising scheme?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Yo Skin, page 4 and still plenty of momentum. I should have called your 10 pager.



For those that adhere to the Malachi principles, I want to see a copy of your bank account. Your accounts or barns should be overflowing right?

LOL!! It went 4 pages in the time that I posted before work and when I came back from work .

Well , I will more or less lurk the rest of the way . LOL!! I received an interesting response for one of my last posts . I was tempted to tell them that their analogy was indeed what I thought of the idividual poster . But , it may be better to leave some of the threads dealing with the Law to those under the Law . It is so very difficult to exchange pov's . I see that people are almost totally agree with each other . A couple more pages should do it .

 

[New_Wineskin]

If any would read Malachi properly they would find that Mal. 3:10 was not addressed to the people. But why allow a lilttle fact like that to interfere with a good fund-raising scheme?

There is such a simple solution to this . Oh well . Carry on .

 

[Andyman_1970]

That's kind of contradictory, don't you think? You're not interested in opinions, but you want me to give you my opinion and show you the scripture?

I’m interested in Biblical facts not your opinion, if you have any to support your position (in their proper context of course) I would be more than happy to consider them.

Nobody had to show me scripture. I looked it up myself.

Ok, then show me. Show me from God’s Holy inspired infallible Word where the tithe changed from what God specifically defined it as, and where it was specifically suppose to go to what you have created it to be today.

You have a pre-conceived idea that tithing is unscriptural as is evidenced by you telling me I have the wrong interpretation.

I don’t have to tell you, read Deuteronomy 14, Leviticus 27, Numbers 18, Deuteronomy 12 – none of those passages that define the tithe indicate what we do today would be acceptable as a tithe. It’s not “me” telling your wrong, it’s God’s Holy inspired infallible Word.

Again, if you have passages where God in His Holy inspired infallible Word “switched” what He specifically defined it as to what we do today, then show me, so me the Biblical proof, show me Biblical facts……….otherwise you’re just posting your flawed opinion on the matter.

What could I possibly show you now to change that opinion?

Biblical proof in it’s proper historical, and cultural context.......nothing less.

You're not listening any longer.

Since you’ve not answered my question, that is you have not shown me after multiple requests on previous posts on this thread that if you have Biblical proof that the tithe has switched from what God defined it as specifically to what we do today. I would say you’re not listening.

You are making claims that have no basis in the Bible, the burden to prove it otherwise lies on you.

You don't want to find the answer, you want to prove me wrong.

No not prove you wrong, show you the truth of God’s Holy inspired infallible Word……………

 

[9-iron]

But , it may be better to leave some of the threads dealing with the Law to those under the Law

I was once taught by a spiritual father in my life to NEVER argue with a legalist. If I could only adhere to that advice.

 

[9-iron]

Something is missing in some of the posts on this thread (and, of course, others)... Many of those who are posting have wandered FAR AWAY from spiritual authority in their lives -- and they are left in that classic position: their only authority is their own selves, and they do "whatever seems right in their eyes."

Nice post! I assume you know everyone you have pointed the finger at personally??

I also like slyness of addressing a individual poster and then slant your words towards other. Another nice touch there!!! Are you assuming this missing spiritual authority in their lives by addressing them in this manner or are their believes just an offense to you??

 

[9-iron]

Since you’ve not answered my question, that is you have not shown me after multiple requests on previous posts on this thread that if you have Biblical proof that the tithe has switched from what God defined it as specifically to what we do today. I would say you’re not listening.

I tithed faithfully for 7 years and was a cheerful giver. However, I never had a true peace about it. Cheerful because I was truly grateful to be able to give, but never had peace about it.

Then this clicked one day. Why would God get so specific with the issue of tithing. Why would He say when you have to travel to tithe, exchange goods for money, then when entering the place to tithe, exchange it back to goods.

Then I found the answer in scripture. They tithed off thing produced by the land as remembrance that this was the promised land given to them. It was never a monetary issue, but an issue of remembering the gift God had given them. Tithing is tided back to the land issue. Land promised to them.

As mentioned I don't think you can scripturally support the 'tithe' as being a transferrable principle for today.

 

[probinson]

You are making claims that have no basis in the Bible, in my interpretation of the Bible the burden to prove it otherwise lies on you.

There, I fixed your comment for you (in bold).

No, sir, you are incorrect. My relationship with God, my Father and the revelations that I've received from fellowshipping with Him does not require me to defend it to you. If you can't see what I'm saying in what I've already posted, then it is pointless for me to continue the debate with you. We are just going around in circles.

I tithed faithfully for 7 years and was a cheerful giver. However, I never had a true peace about it. Cheerful because I was truly grateful to be able to give, but never had peace about it.

Wow, you tithed for 7 years? That's wonderful.

I've been tithing for over 15 years. And as I've stated repeatedly, I've seen the fruits of tithing. Can someone please explain to me why if tithing is an "unbiblical principle" why I have had tremendous blessing from it, and why on the few occasions that I stopped tithing, things started to go wrong financially in my life and I had absolutely no peace?

I adhere to the belief that you know them by their fruit. If what I was doing was as horribly wrong as you all seem to make it out to be, I certainly wouldn't be seeing fruit from it, would I?

 

[Andyman_1970]

There, I fixed your comment for you (in bold).

I'll thank you to kindly refrain from "fixing" my posts, I extend the same coutesy to you and expect the same in return.

No, sir, you are incorrect. My relationship with God, my Father and the revelations that I've received from fellowshipping with Him does not require me to defend it to you. If you can't see what I'm saying in what I've already posted, then it is pointless for me to continue the debate with you. We are just going around in circles.

The problem is, with all due respect, any "revelation" that is contrary to God's Holy inspired infallible Word (as has been clearly shown in this issue) is not a "revelation" from God but a false teaching.

I pray that God will open your eyes to the truth of His perfect Word.

 

[9-iron]

Can someone please explain to me why if tithing is an "unbiblical principle" why I have had tremendous blessing from it, and why on the few occasions that I stopped tithing, things started to go wrong financially in my life and I had absolutely no peace?

Well, I can't tell you that. I stopped tithing 2 years ago and haven't noticed a change. Nothing has gone wrong financially. I've had about the same raises, blessing and what have you. I still give, just don't base it off a 10% system. Some months I might not give anything and I might go months with out giving at all.

I'm not against giving, I'm against the man holding people in bondage and fear.

I'm glad it has worked for you and your content with giving 10%. If you're a cheerful giver you're a Godly giver.

 

[Andry]

I've been tithing for over 15 years. And as I've stated repeatedly, I've seen the fruits of tithing. Can someone please explain to me why if tithing is an "unbiblical principle" why I have had tremendous blessing from it, and why on the few occasions that I stopped tithing, things started to go wrong financially in my life and I had absolutely no peace?

I adhere to the belief that you know them by their fruit. If what I was doing was as horribly wrong as you all seem to make it out to be, I certainly wouldn't be seeing fruit from it, would I?

I've seen the fruits of giving. Is this is litmus test of which principle is better: giving or tithing? Are you trying to say that tithers are blessed financially, ergo, non-tithers are not? Do you want to go down that road and compare our 'storehouses'?

Just because a believer doesn't tithe doesn't mean they don't give. I give more now that I ever tithed before (including offerings). Am I under a curse because I don't write "tithe" on my offering envelope?

I don't cast judgment on tithers one way or the other. I believe tithing is a good starting point. But if someone does decide to tithe, at least do it Scripturally. And make sure they keep the rest of the law too.