Tithing

[JSynon]

Greetings everybody!

In light of this article, what do you think of the following statement and what is your stance on the obligation of Church members to tithe today?

"Today, Christ is our High Priest of the order of Melchisedec. The priesthood was changed and the law concerning who received the tithes also changed. But the law of tithing was, and is, in effect. When Christ became our High Priest, the tithes stopped going to the Levites and started going to Christ's ministers - spiritual Levites - those in whom God is working to proclaim His gospel to the world." (http://www.restoredcog.org/articles/totq.html)

 

[livin4thebigman]

The first thing I would want to know, is where does this person get the basis for this assumption? I understand that there are examples of this taking place in the Scripture, however I have yet to find a Biblical mandate for this to take place.

In my studies I have actually found that tithing as a Biblical mandate is not for today. I am not saying that it is not a good idea, however it is not mandated as it was in the Old Testament Law. The NT however does talk about giving, and that is expressed clearly.

 

[33ad]

Hi

A more balance view of tithing and the Christian is found here:
http://www.truthorfables.com/Tithing.htm

God bless
Kolya

 

[muffler dragon]

Greetings everybody!

In light of this article, what do you think of the following statement and what is your stance on the obligation of Church members to tithe today?

"Today, Christ is our High Priest of the order of Melchisedec. The priesthood was changed and the law concerning who received the tithes also changed. But the law of tithing was, and is, in effect. When Christ became our High Priest, the tithes stopped going to the Levites and started going to Christ's ministers - spiritual Levites - those in whom God is working to proclaim His gospel to the world." (http://www.restoredcog.org/articles/totq.html)

Hey John,

Did you request permission from Michael Castro to present his paper?

The reason I ask is that Michael would not be able to defend anything that someone brings forth against his paper. Something to keep in mind should this proceed.

Btw, may I ask why you asked me for my information and never came back to me about it before making this OP?

m.d.

I almost forgot... in regards to your question:

what do you think of the following statement and what is your stance on the obligation of Church members to tithe today?

I think the statement is fallacious and my stance is that the tithe is irrelevant today.

 

[muffler dragon]

Hi

A more balance view of tithing and the Christian is found here:
http://www.truthorfables.com/Tithing.htm

God bless
Kolya

Just to let you know, 33ad, I wouldn't necessarily call "fair and balanced" an anti-SDA site. But then again, that's your opinion.

Anyways... to make a long story as short as possible, the modern-day tithe doctrine has no support regardless of the 'denomination' that uses it. I have had a formal debate invitation open to anyone who would like to debate the relevancy of the tithe. I am against the modern-day tithe.

Just a side-note.

m.d.

 

[YahwehLove]

Greetings everybody!

In light of this article, what do you think of the following statement and what is your stance on the obligation of Church members to tithe today?

"Today, Christ is our High Priest of the order of Melchisedec. The priesthood was changed and the law concerning who received the tithes also changed. But the law of tithing was, and is, in effect. When Christ became our High Priest, the tithes stopped going to the Levites and started going to Christ's ministers - spiritual Levites - those in whom God is working to proclaim His gospel to the world." (http://www.restoredcog.org/articles/totq.html)

Indeed.

Even so, the Lord ordained those announcing the gospel to live from the gospel.
nor is the ''tithe'' still in effect.
(1Co 9:14)

but this doesnt allow for teachers to rob Gods children of food money for their families.

nor is the ''tithe'' still effective. It is OLD covenant and passed with the coming of John out of the wilderness.
Those ''tithing'' are clinging to the old covenant and according to scripture are required to keep the WHOLE law.

Giving with a cheerful heart. THAT is New Covenant giving.

 

[YahwehLove]

Got this from that link

If Christians insist on following the Levitical Law they would have to find Levite Priests that serve in the Temple Sanctuary to give their tithes of animals, fruit and grain (mint, dill, and cummin). When was the last time you dropped this in the offering plate?

I think I have to try this
dump a couple pound bag of some sort of grain in the offering plate

 

[TwinCrier]

I've heard many cases for and against tithing. I still don't see enough evedence to call it a command, but 10% is so little to ask (I woul hope most do more) and I doubt any church could survive with absolutly no money to maintain the building and send missionaries.

 

[muffler dragon]

I've heard many cases for and against tithing. I still don't see enough evedence to call it a command, but 10% is so little to ask (I woul hope most do more) and I doubt any church could survive with absolutly no money to maintain the building and send missionaries.

That's why an establishment has offerings.

 

[JSynon]

Hey John,

Did you request permission from Michael Castro to present his paper?

The reason I ask is that Michael would not be able to defend anything that someone brings forth against his paper. Something to keep in mind should this proceed.

Hi,

The copyright at the bottom says to freely distribute the paper. I think his paper makes some very valid points and I agree with him; that is why I posted it.

Btw, may I ask why you asked me for my information and never came back to me about it before making this OP?

Were you the one who emailed it to me? I couldn't remember who it was that did.

 

[pastormike125]

Ah yes...the tithing question!

This sure comes up a bunch to folk in my church. Even if they mustre the conviction/courage/faith to tithe they still wonder how much...really. Net or gross? Before or after my other financial obligations? How long? What do I get in return? Blah..blah...blah.

It seems to me God wanted a tithe...a tenth...of our first resources. We should start there. What about the NT and Jesus? True tithing isn't mentioned directly but Jesus was always challenging people to a higher standard. ("You have hear it said....but I say.." in the Sermon on the Mount.

So I'd say we shoot for the higher standard than "just" tithing. This, to me, doesn't mean giving more money to the church but investing yourself into it with your hands and heart. If money could really have changed the world, we wouldn't have needed Jesus. And Jesus chose us, not money, to carry out his mission.

I remind people they shouldn't be so quick to pat themselves on the back when they tell me they're giving 10% of their resources. It's the least we can do and we can give much more than our money.

 

[muffler dragon]

Hi,

The copyright at the bottom says to freely distribute the paper. I think his paper makes some very valid points and I agree with him; that is why I posted it.

Please understand. I wasn't rebuking. I am simply concerned, because if someone has issue with what Michael has written, he would not be allowed to defend it in this forum. That's the only reason why I asked.

Were you the one who emailed it to me? I couldn't remember who it was that did.

Yeah. I've emailed it to quite a few folks on the forum.

 

[muffler dragon]

Ah yes...the tithing question!

This sure comes up a bunch to folk in my church. Even if they mustre the conviction/courage/faith to tithe they still wonder how much...really. Net or gross? Before or after my other financial obligations? How long? What do I get in return? Blah..blah...blah.

It seems to me God wanted a tithe...a tenth...of our first resources. We should start there. What about the NT and Jesus? True tithing isn't mentioned directly but Jesus was always challenging people to a higher standard. ("You have hear it said....but I say.." in the Sermon on the Mount.

So I'd say we shoot for the higher standard than "just" tithing. This, to me, doesn't mean giving more money to the church but investing yourself into it with your hands and heart. If money could really have changed the world, we wouldn't have needed Jesus. And Jesus chose us, not money, to carry out his mission.

I remind people they shouldn't be so quick to pat themselves on the back when they tell me they're giving 10% of their resources. It's the least we can do and we can give much more than our money.

This is the first time that I have seen a "man of cloth" or "title" post on this topic outside of another forum.

With that being the case, pastor, I would like to ask you if you are aware of the context behind the "tithe"? I could assume so, but I've been wrong before when discussing this issue with people.

Contextually, the modern-day tithe doctrine has zero validation. I would love to discuss this with you, if you were open to it.

Regards,

m.d.

 

[Swordman007]

There were some good responses to this question. I would like to posit a further thought for consideration:

Organized religion is clearly a creation of men rather than God. Today's "tithe" is mostly used for the support of organized religion, with a very small portion utilized for benevolent outreaches and missions.

This, then, opens up a "can of worms" in relation to our man-made institutions that most call "churches". When we observe giving in the NT, we see 100% of the saint's giving being utilized for meeting needs rather than being poured into real estate, office furniture, sound systems, parking lots, and a plethora of other expenditures that serve mostly to ensure that one individual is heard rather than all the saints enjoying mutual edification and fellowship. This defies any attempt to build institutional "church" organizations upon the Bible. Organized religion is far more antithetical to scriptures than it is consistent.

Dr. Don Dean

 

[Swordman007]

This is the first time that I have seen a "man of cloth" or "title" post on this topic outside of another forum.

With that being the case, pastor, I would like to ask you if you are aware of the context behind the "tithe"? I could assume so, but I've been wrong before when discussing this issue with people.

Contextually, the modern-day tithe doctrine has zero validation. I would love to discuss this with you, if you were open to it.

Regards,

m.d.

Good point. Many have attmpted to use Jesus' mention of the tithe as an apologetic for its continuance. This, of course, ignores the fact that He was addressing a people who were still under obligation for obedience to all the Law.

There is also the idea that the tithe "predates the Law", and is therefore a principle rather than originating from the Law itself. This ignores many facts, all of which defeat any attempt at establishing legitimacy to this fallacy.

Dr. Don Dean

 

[muffler dragon]

Good point. Many have attmpted to use Jesus' mention of the tithe as an apologetic for its continuance. This, of course, ignores the fact that He was addressing a people who were still under obligation for obedience to all the Law.

There is also the idea that the tithe "predates the Law", and is therefore a principle rather than originating from the Law itself. This ignores many facts, all of which defeat any attempt at establishing legitimacy to this fallacy.

Dr. Don Dean

I've mentioned this to another person, and hopefully this discourse won't take that turn; BUT my view of irrelevancy regarding the tithe has nothing to do with whether the Torah is still valid or not (or whether we are under a "New" Covenant v. an "Old" Covenant).

Points to be made very clear why the modern-day tithe doctrine is Scripturally unsupported:

1) the tithe was never money.
2) the tithe was the primary sustenance of the Levitical priesthood in the service of the Temple.

There are a myriad of other things that can be discussed in this matter; but these two points are the context. The modern-day tithe doctrine has no contextual support in Scripture.

Good day.

m.d.

 

[Andyman_1970]

That's why an establishment has offerings.

There is nothing wrong with giving offerings to "keep the church running" - in fact IMO John the Baptist, when describing what the Jesus movement is like, indicates that Biblical giving of a follower of Jesus is more along the lines of 50% rather than "just" 10%.

 

[Swordman007]

1) the tithe was never money.
2) the tithe was the primary sustenance of the Levitical priesthood in the service of the Temple.

This is mostly irrelevant to the modern-day pro-tithe advocate. Their arguments go beyond only the OT, covenants, the Law, etc. They think they see it supported in many places throughout the NT, which is still erroneous.

Dr. Don Dean

 

[Swordman007]

There is nothing wrong with giving offerings to "keep the church running" - in fact IMO John the Baptist, when describing what the Jesus movement is like, indicates that Biblical giving of a follower of Jesus is more along the lines of 50% rather than "just" 10%.

Actually, you unwittingly pulled the rug out from under organized religion when admitting that "money" is needed for the support of what you call the "church". NOTE your use of the small "c" as opposed to a capital "C".

This only proves that anything that stands or falls on account of money is clearly man-made. The local Church, which is not dependent upon money for its survival and continuance, exists in spite of money, not because of it.

Dr. Don Dean

 

[muffler dragon]

This is mostly irrelevant to the modern-day pro-tithe advocate. Their arguments go beyond only the OT, covenants, the Law, etc. They think they see it supported in many places throughout the NT, which is still erroneous.

Dr. Don Dean

Granted.

I find that the modern-day tithe doctrine can be refuted any way you look at it. I just like to narrow my focus.

m.d.