Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

[greekgal]

A couple of questions here:

1) If we tithe less than 10% of our income to our church, is this an abdomination in God's eyes?
2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

 

[debs]

I personally dont tithe to a church. I used to but I find it more exciting to be led by the Spirit, and He puts the money where He wants it..It seems to get used up pretty good, and I learn to hear his voice clearer. Im not recommending it to anyone else, just Gods plan right now for me..subject to change in the future.

 

[greekgal]

Our pastor just preached a sermon last Sunday on tithing. He said that God doesn't need our money, yet also said that it was a "holy act" to tithe. Maybe it's just me, but when pastors/ministers preach about tithing, it makes me a little bit uncomfortable and quite confused.

 

[Defender of the Faith 777]

The statement "more of a Christian" makes me uncomfortable. I know what you meant, but it is important to be very careful and not let that slip out. There is no more or less "Christian" Christian. There are only "forgiven sinners". We're of the same denomination, so we're cool with that. I know what you mean.

Tithing is a matter of the heart. As my Catholic father said, the church doesn't demand 10%, it's just a comfortable standard. The woman gave her two pennies, 100%, because of her heart. It's truly a matter of the heart. If you don't tithe at all, then I'm concerned about your heart and where it is if you can't donate to 1/10 to the house of God.

Common groud; I too believe in tongues nowadays. I've mentioned how I feel about how Christian someone can be. God chooses people for different talents, and for some, it is evangelism. True "tongues" has not appeared for about 100 years in my opinion. It appeared in Tennessee, to the founder of the Pentecostal church. On channel 7 where I live, it is so sad. I will turn on the TV and hear this,

"Jesus Christ loves you! He is... achkj sadojva daij ag oanv odhk! That's right! I'm speaking in tongues! Amen!"

Lol, my friend saw that happen. It's really funny, and so sad. TTYL Jesus loves you!

 

[TruelightUK]

Originally posted by greekgal
1) If we tithe less than 10% of our income to our church, is this an abdomination in God's eyes?

There's a good thread on this subject at the Protestant fourum. But, in brief, I'd say very definitely 'no'. The New Covenant is not based on legalistic obeidence to the Law - do this or you'll be cursed. We are called to be cheerful givers, as we purpose in our hearts, not those who give grudgingly under compulsion, because some preacher tells us to (2 Cor 8:7)! Yet give we should - and that generously! - in the assurance that 'as we sow, so shall we reap'. 10%, to my mind, is a good biblical principle to be guided by - but not a Law that we must fulfill to the letter or face God's anger - nor all that is required in order to be blessed! To consistently tithe grudgingly, as the minimum we can get away with is, in my opinion, a far greater abomination to God than cheerfully giving 5% this month, 20% next; as Children of our heavelnly Father we should be enthusiastically seizing every opportunity to give - not as a religious duty, but as a joyful opportunity to imitate Him and bless our neighbours!

2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

Again, emphatically, 'No'!

There are no 1st and 2nd class Christians - if we are truly born again of the Spirit of God then we are beloved sons and daughters of our Father. He has no favourites. Gifts etc. are not 'badges of merit', or 'insignia of rank' - they are gifts given, primarily, not to individuals (as some kind of reward for good behaviour!), but to the Church, to bless, encourage and build us up.

Having said that, Paul encourages us all to 'eagerly desire spiritual gifts' (1 Cor 14:1), so that we can be actively involved in ministering to the Body in the 'super-natural' strength which God supplies - but actually regards tongues as possibly the least of them all!

Anthony

 

[debs]

Amen Anthoiny, good stuff. I know for my own experiance that speaking in tongues helps me focus and tune in to God and as a result I will often get a vision, a word, a prophecy for someone.....building the Kingdom of God, debs

 

[Reformationist]

Not sure what you mean by abomination but my pastor put it to me very simply once. He said, "It's all His money. He just wants you to have enough faith to give 10% of it back. And, if you don't, then He'll get it some other way." I think it's important to understand that the problem most people have with tithing is that they don't do a godly job of managing their money to begin with so 10% seems like an amount of money that can make a difference in other areas of our life. It has always seemed to me that when I tithe there always seems to be more than enough in the budget at the end of the month. When I don't tithe the money seems to be much tighter. Also, this is an issue of obedience. If you don't do it, you're sinning. It doesn't mean you've doomed yourself. It just means that you need to pray that the Lord will increase your faith.

As to "speaking in tongues," there is a specific purpose for the gift. Actually, there are two purposes. If someone speaks in tongues in church the pastor should ask, if one doesn't come forward, if there's an interpreter. If there isn't, then the purpose of the gift is for the edification of the individual. If there is no interpreter, the pastor should ask the individual to refrain from continuing aloud. It is not very edifying to have someone speaking in an language that nobody understands if there is no one there to interpret. The other purpose is the edification of the body of believers. This would be the case if there was an interpreter. Again, if there is not, then for someone to continue they are not doing so out of a love for their brethren. Speaking in tongues does not signify that someone is "more of a Christian." In the above case where there is no interpreter the purpose is probably to increase the faith of the recipient of the gift. If there is an interpreter, the gift is for everyone, and if the recipient takes some measure of pride in being the recipient then they have not understood the purpose of the gift to begin with.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

 

[VOW]

I have heard the suggestion of "an hour's wage per week" for your donation.

When money is tight, we put folding money in the basket, but don't make regular donations. However, we do contribute charitable donations through our employer (you can direct your donation) and we also donate food and gifts at Christmas time.

The churches need money to operate. The chairs, the music books, the cleaning products, the toilet paper and soap in the restrooms, and the AIR CONDITIONING on hot days all take money. Many pastors have second jobs because they cannot support themselves on the church pay, and that's sad, but it's reality. Somebody has to finance the gas in the car so he can make his home visits and comfort people in the hospital, or the funeral home.

Unless you are a televangelist with your own TV station and amusement park, you aren't in the religion business for the money!


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[SavedByGrace3]

..these signs shall follow those that belive... they shall speak in new tongues...
Mark16

 

[celtic_crusader]

Personally, I don’t believe that tithing is for the New Testament. There isn’t one example of Christians tithing after Jesus rose from the dead.

There isn’t one scripture in the N/T that tells us to tithe.

Tithing was a part of the Jewish law and the apostles liberated Greek Christians from keeping the Levitical laws, which were for the Jews.

The law of tithing was a schoolteacher and that teacher taught tithing so when we grew we would be givers to gods cause. So under the new covenant we are givers not tithes.

As Christians we are trained through the Holy Ghost to give, there should be no bondage with laws of tithing; it is just away for preachers to inshore a good wage, .

As for tongues, well I wouldn’t call anyone less of a Christian because they don’t speak in tongues although I would encourage those who haven’t received this gift to seek and ask god for it and they to will receive it when the faith to receive it is there.

 

[Elnaam]

Originally posted by greekgal
A couple of questions here:

1) If we tithe less than 10% of our income to our church, is this an abdomination in God's eyes?
2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

The so-called Tithe of 10% was for the Old Testament Levtitical priesthood. Mal 3--the most often used Scripture for this doctrine has been taken out of its context to try and prove the tithe. There are is not levitical priesthood today, the "storehouse" refers to a barn not the church.

 

[Thunderchild]

With regard to tithing - if a person was to tithe, I would recommend that the person should tithe at the rate of 10% of after expenses income, rather than 10% of income. The former sum is of course, the amount of disposable money that the person receives - the latter is just so much wishful thinking. Of course that is a personal opinion. But, there is no way that I can see (for a person who considers this too little) to make a claim on more than 10% of after tax income.

As to speaking in tongues: The Bible is explicit. "Do all speak in tongues? No." It is clear that a Christian will receive one or more of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but there is no declaration as to which of the gifts will be received. Given the bulk of the scriptural record, "they shall speak in new tongues" can only mean that there will be people in the congregations who can do so, rather than each member of each congregation will do so.

Those who would make much of this - "shall" speak in new tongues - are generally so fond of making as much of - "shall" lay hands on the sick and they shall recover - which follows shortly afterwards in the same passage.

 

[Elnaam]

Originally posted by greekgal
A couple of questions here:

1) If we tithe less than 10% of our income to our church, is this an abdomination in God's eyes?
2) I have heard of (and do believe) that some people have the gift of tongues. If we don't have such a gift, does that make us less of a Christian?

Answer to both questions is no.

 

[Elnaam]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
With regard to tithing - if a person was to tithe, I would recommend that the person should tithe at the rate of 10% of after expenses income, rather than 10% of income. The former sum is of course, the amount of disposable money that the person receives - the latter is just so much wishful thinking. Of course that is a personal opinion. But, there is no way that I can see (for a person who considers this too little) to make a claim on more than 10% of after tax income.

As to speaking in tongues: The Bible is explicit. "Do all speak in tongues? No." It is clear that a Christian will receive one or more of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but there is no declaration as to which of the gifts will be received. Given the bulk of the scriptural record, "they shall speak in new tongues" can only mean that there will be people in the congregations who can do so, rather than each member of each congregation will do so.

Those who would make much of this - "shall" speak in new tongues - are generally so fond of making as much of - "shall" lay hands on the sick and they shall recover - which follows shortly afterwards in the same passage.

What one gives in his offering is not covered via the NT so it is an indivual thing.
I speak in tongues however one it is not a requirement for salvation, just remember 1 Cor12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

 

[TruelightUK]

I'd say the spirit behind the law of 'tithing' is that of giving our 'firstfruits' to the Lord. Thus I beleive it is appropriate to determine our giving before making any allowance for other demands on our income - be that income tax, rent, food or whatever - as (a) a recognition that God has first demand on everything we are and own and (b) an act of faith in his ability to meet all our other needs when we put Him first in our priorities.

However, I don't offer this as a 'law' - simply the understanding I have gained and lived by over the years!

Anthony

 

[Elnaam]

Originally posted by TruelightUK
I'd say the spirit behind the law of 'tithing' is that of giving our 'firstfruits' to the Lord. Thus I beleive it is appropriate to determine our giving before making any allowance for other demands on our income - be that income tax, rent, food or whatever - as (a) a recognition that God has first demand on everything we are and own and (b) an act of faith in his ability to meet all our other needs when we put Him first in our priorities.

However, I don't offer this as a 'law' - simply the understanding I have gained and lived by over the years!

Anthony

However God tells us to be good stewards also. The 10% tithe is Unscriptural under the New Testament. It amounts to Fraudulent fleeching of the flock.

 

[TruelightUK]

Hi Elnaam!

If you read my other posts on the subject you'll find I'm pretty much in agreement with you. I see 'tithing' not as a'Law' but as a good principle as a starting point for responsible stewardship of money - wiht gifts and offerings on top of that. Basically, I'd say we should give all our income to the Lord, and allow Him to direct how much we keep for ourselves (and for what purpose) as well as where, when and to what extent to give to others.

Anthony

 

[Thunderchild]

It is neither. God may lead a person to tithe. Or he may leave the person to choose for the self. Or he may indeed actively disapprove of a person tithing.
Like as in a bloke goes to church one week, intending to tithe ... the church decides that day there would be no collection taken ... the following week, after being delayed unavoidably for 10 minutes, he arrives to find that the collection has been taken at start of service instead of toward the end ... the next week, just before offering is taken he has to leave the church on an emergency errand which (after all the dust had settled) turns out to be nothing that needed attention any-time in the next week, just someone had a fit of the jitters. He decides to take the hint. (far fetched? I have seen something very like it, but exact details aren't clear in memory.)

To tithe (or not) is a matter between an individual and God, not a matter of doctrine.

 

[TruelightUK]

O can come up with a similar testimony myself.

In a previous Church, there were various circumstances which prevented me paying in my tithe as planned. Then 'out of the blue' a major scandal broke out and I ended up leaving that Church. However, the unpaid tithe went with me to my next Church - on the basis that I had already given it to the Lord in my heart, but He was directing me to more 'fruitful ground' in which to 'sow' it!

Anthony

 

[SavedByGrace3]

As to speaking in tongues: The Bible is explicit. "Do all speak in tongues? No."

This is true if you are talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit i.e. "diversities of tongues'. But that is not the only source of speaking in tongues (or prophesying for that matter). We all may speak in tongues and prophesy according to many instances in the NT.

Given the bulk of the scriptural record, "they shall speak in new tongues" can only mean that there will be people in the congregations who can do so, rather than each member of each congregation will do so.

That is the common interpretation. But it means just what it says. We all may prophesy [GLOW=orange]and[/GLOW] speak in tongues.

Those who would make much of this - "shall" speak in new tongues - are generally so fond of making as much of - "shall" lay hands on the sick and they shall recover - which follows shortly afterwards in the same passage.

[GLOW=red]Absolutely! [/GLOW] It is Jesus after all who is speaking! I hope we would not slight anything He says. We can lay hands on the sick and they will recover. We can speak in new tongues.