Tithing Quandry, Please help!!

[Micky123]

I really have to ask this, i am unable to find answers and in a quandry right now. We are a couple married for 8 years and both of us are fairly well settled in life. We have almost paid off our mortgage on a small 1 BR flat and i do believe we have received the complete grace of god. We are a firm believer in tithing and have seen the kind of mess we can get into when tithing is not done. We also were a bit confused about tithing initially, but mustered the courage to speak with the local parish priest, who surprisingly confirmed that we could help the poor on our own from our tithes and it need not be put into the church collection boxes. Since then, we have been helping a lot of poor and needy people with the money entrusted to us by god.
We have also been taking care of my parents and her mother - Not from tithe, but from the remaining money we had left-over after paying the tithe. My firm belief is that these people do not deserve to be paid from tithe because they have us to look after them and gods money should not be used for this purpose.

Now this brings me to my quandry, my brother-in-law is a very lazy man and has changed jobs several times and stayed home for months in between jobs, we have tried as best we could to set him up to find jobs, but somehow he leaves them at the drop of a hat, he always blames the bosses and people around, but the fault is never his, ever! We have been paying him money over time, not huge amounts, because i firmly believe a man who is capable and well off in health should be able to earn his bread on his own. This guy decided to get married when he was in one of his long breaks, we tried to discourage the girl from marrying him saying that he does not have a settled job, but she was adamant and wanted to marry him. She said she was working and can help take care of the house, so we arranged and paid for his marriage. After marriage we counselled him and told him he needs to settle down now that he has a wife. He was ok for some time and then back to the usual routine. We specifically advised them both not to plan for kids for 2-3 years at least until they were steady in their jobs. What do you know, a year after the marriage he calls and says that his wife is about to deliver a baby, and he does not have money to pay for the delivery... here we go again spending money for the delivery, after this we end up spending money for the christening and 1st birthday too, inspite of telling him to earn and save for these events, he did not bother. He made us the god parents, and i am pretty sure he did so because he knows we are fairly devout and follow the bible and hence he could demand money in the name of the child anytime. Currently, both of them are un-employed and at home and he is asking for money again for rent and groceries, he is emotionally blackmailing us saying that we should buy diapers for his kid.

Now the whole issue is that since the baby is our god child, will it be right for us to provide the needs of the baby using tithe? I don't want to pay him anything from tithe because he is quite capable of working and earning a living but is too lazy to work. Another worry is, and i have seen this happen before, if we buy things for the baby, he goes and sells it back to the store for a lower price and uses the money to buy groceries and to pay the rent too sometimes. In such a situation, i really do not know what to do and looking for some help here. Our god child is important to us, but then her parents are like parasites that cling on to her.

 

[Sketcher]

Stop paying him. They can use cloth diapers. If he is going to let the baby suffer because of this, investigate what it would take to obtain custody of the child.

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

if God tells you to give them His money (or a portion of the money you give to Him) to help them, then it doesn't matter what it looks like to you; so this is the first and most important question - do you believe that God wants you to help them with His money?

if you do believe that God wants you to help them with His money, make the man earn it while forcing him to focus on God's word - for example, you could offer to hire him to read the Bible and discuss what he's read with you, and pay him a wage to do this - the more he reads and discusses, the more he can make, up to a preset limit each month. don't hire him to cut your grass or work for you, as he will learn little about God that way and come to despise you for making him your servant. or maybe pay him to go to church with you; or pay him to volunteer at the local Salvation Army shelter, etc.. your job is to get him into fellowship with God so that God can lead him out of lack, not be a substitute for God as provider

 

[Micky123]

Stop paying him. They can use cloth diapers. If he is going to let the baby suffer because of this, investigate what it would take to obtain custody of the child.

This was my initial reaction too, but then we are also called to forgive and help our immediate family too, i know he is taking advantage of us but then again, these other scriptures get in the way, so it is a real quandry. In my country, taking custody of a child is not easy and the laws here are not as favorable... such thoughts will only worsen the situation for me.

 

[Micky123]

if God tells you to give them His money (or a portion of the money you give to Him) to help them, then it doesn't matter what it looks like to you; so this is the first and most important question - do you believe that God wants you to help them with His money?

if you do believe that God wants you to help them with His money, make the man earn it while forcing him to focus on God's word - for example, you could offer to hire him to read the Bible and discuss what he's read with you, and pay him a wage to do this - the more he reads and discusses, the more he can make, up to a preset limit each month. don't hire him to cut your grass or work for you, as he will learn little about God that way and come to despise you for making him your servant. or maybe pay him to go to church with you; or pay him to volunteer at the local Salvation Army shelter, etc.. your job is to get him into fellowship with God so that God can lead him out of lack, not be a substitute for God as provider

I really do not know if god is telling me anything, we have mistaken our inner voice for god's commands sometimes and ended up helping an organisation, which we later found out, was a fraud organisation and channelled all our money into buying a cab so the pastor could earn money for himself and kicked the orphans to the curb.

I feel sad about the little one, because it is not her fault that her parents behave in this manner and since she is our god daughter to boot, i was wondering if it is ok to provide some supplies for her from the monthly tithe. I have no intention of offering my brother in law any kind of job, since we ourselves are looking after the needs of our individual parents and another aunt who is a spinster and the money we earn is just about enough to cover all these needs.

 

[4x4toy]

I began to question the law to tithe when a preacher and 4 deacons all come to me together at a church function one night . They asked almost begged if I could give them a hundred dollars to cover a bad check so a potential new member could cover a check in order to pass a background check to get hired for a job .. I said 'yes, but what have you been doing with all the tithes I've been paying' they said oh, we can't just use that, that's for church business and must be voted on in a meeting .. All those guys had better jobs and more well off than me .. I went home ,got a checkbook and came back and wrote the check, from then on I began to quit tithing and started using that money to minister to needy folks myself .. Do it anonymous and some of those you help won't know who to keep coming back to over and over .. I give my tithes to an Indian guy who had an accident and couldn't work once for 8 weeks, no income , no insurance and a new born . When he got back to work he told me he didn't know who did it but they did just fine on it , that no one ever did anything like that for him and how thankful he was to receive it, I told him Wow , just thank the Lord, he said believe me I have , every day since .. A short time later his whole community had revival and most all the young men from that community got saved, started church and had revival , many I knew and worked with from time to time , that whole bunch had been pretty wild .. Praise God ..

 

[dysert]

There are a few things I'd like to say, but I don't want to come across as unsympathetic. I'm sure this is a troubling situation for you. Please know that though my words may be heard to hear, I'm not attacking - just sharing what I believe to be the truth...

1. There is no NT commandment to tithe. That you're still doing it is commendable, but to wonder whether you should pay this or that out of the tithe smacks of legalism, and Christians have outgrown that.
2. You are enablers. Sounds to me like your BIL is a lazy bum who would rather get handouts than work. And you've been helping him be a lazy bum by meeting his needs/wants whenever he calls. That's gotta stop.
3. I can see helping out in an emergency (although they should have an emergency fund themselves), but routine bills like rent and food are theirs to take care of - not yours.
4. There is no such thing (biblically) as a god-child. Your care for the child should be as that for any other nephew (?). There's no "special" relationship besides that.

You really need to get out from under this idea of being his support system. Not sure how you go about it. I guess gradually would be the most humane, but you're not doing him any favors by giving him handouts.

Good luck.

 

[Micky123]

There are a few things I'd like to say, but I don't want to come across as unsympathetic. I'm sure this is a troubling situation for you. Please know that though my words may be heard to hear, I'm not attacking - just sharing what I believe to be the truth...

1. There is no NT commandment to tithe. That you're still doing it is commendable, but to wonder whether you should pay this or that out of the tithe smacks of legalism, and Christians have outgrown that.
2. You are enablers. Sounds to me like your BIL is a lazy bum who would rather get handouts than work. And you've been helping him be a lazy bum by meeting his needs/wants whenever he calls. That's gotta stop.
3. I can see helping out in an emergency (although they should have an emergency fund themselves), but routine bills like rent and food are theirs to take care of - not yours.
4. There is no such thing (biblically) as a god-child. Your care for the child should be as that for any other nephew (?). There's no "special" relationship besides that.

You really need to get out from under this idea of being his support system. Not sure how you go about it. I guess gradually would be the most humane, but you're not doing him any favors by giving him handouts.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply! You have described my BIL perfectly. He appeared to have turned a new leaf for about 6 months where he had a regular job! I admit we have been enabling him for quite some time, even though we did cut off assistance in between, and this is what probably prompted him to get the job where he was steady for 6 months. As per catholicism we do have a deep relationship when it comes to our god child (and our only niece) and it does pain me to see her suffering for no fault of hers! The only issue is, we have a life of our own, we need to ensure we build up our lives too and i already have a demanding MIL who i have somehow controlled. We can't sit and look after two perfectly healthy individuals who can fend for themselves but the poor little girl is suffering if we don't help, so its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hence the attempt to identify if it is ok to use tithe funds for the little girl alone.

 

[AlexDTX]

I really have to ask this, i am unable to find answers and in a quandry right now. We are a couple married for 8 years and both of us are fairly well settled in life. We have almost paid off our mortgage on a small 1 BR flat and i do believe we have received the complete grace of god. We are a firm believer in tithing and have seen the kind of mess we can get into when tithing is not done. We also were a bit confused about tithing initially, but mustered the courage to speak with the local parish priest, who surprisingly confirmed that we could help the poor on our own from our tithes and it need not be put into the church collection boxes. Since then, we have been helping a lot of poor and needy people with the money entrusted to us by god.
We have also been taking care of my parents and her mother - Not from tithe, but from the remaining money we had left-over after paying the tithe. My firm belief is that these people do not deserve to be paid from tithe because they have us to look after them and gods money should not be used for this purpose.

Now this brings me to my quandry, my brother-in-law is a very lazy man and has changed jobs several times and stayed home for months in between jobs, we have tried as best we could to set him up to find jobs, but somehow he leaves them at the drop of a hat, he always blames the bosses and people around, but the fault is never his, ever! We have been paying him money over time, not huge amounts, because i firmly believe a man who is capable and well off in health should be able to earn his bread on his own. This guy decided to get married when he was in one of his long breaks, we tried to discourage the girl from marrying him saying that he does not have a settled job, but she was adamant and wanted to marry him. She said she was working and can help take care of the house, so we arranged and paid for his marriage. After marriage we counselled him and told him he needs to settle down now that he has a wife. He was ok for some time and then back to the usual routine. We specifically advised them both not to plan for kids for 2-3 years at least until they were steady in their jobs. What do you know, a year after the marriage he calls and says that his wife is about to deliver a baby, and he does not have money to pay for the delivery... here we go again spending money for the delivery, after this we end up spending money for the christening and 1st birthday too, inspite of telling him to earn and save for these events, he did not bother. He made us the god parents, and i am pretty sure he did so because he knows we are fairly devout and follow the bible and hence he could demand money in the name of the child anytime. Currently, both of them are un-employed and at home and he is asking for money again for rent and groceries, he is emotionally blackmailing us saying that we should buy diapers for his kid.

Now the whole issue is that since the baby is our god child, will it be right for us to provide the needs of the baby using tithe? I don't want to pay him anything from tithe because he is quite capable of working and earning a living but is too lazy to work. Another worry is, and i have seen this happen before, if we buy things for the baby, he goes and sells it back to the store for a lower price and uses the money to buy groceries and to pay the rent too sometimes. In such a situation, i really do not know what to do and looking for some help here. Our god child is important to us, but then her parents are like parasites that cling on to her.

The issue is sowing and reaping, not tithing. You have been blessed because of the abundance you have sown.

Regarding your lazy brother-in-law you have a codependent relationship and you and your wife are enablers. If any man won't work, he should not eat. It was ridiculous that you paid for their wedding and are going to pay for the baby. You told him you were against it, and you should stand your ground. Since this is your wife's brother, my guess is that she is the main influence on you to enable this codependency. Therefore, the real problem is between you and your wife.

 

[Micky123]

The issue is sowing and reaping, not tithing. You have been blessed because of the abundance you have sown.

Regarding your lazy brother-in-law you have a codependent relationship and you and your wife are enablers. If any man won't work, he should not eat. It was ridiculous that you paid for their wedding and are going to pay for the baby. You told him you were against it, and you should stand your ground. Since this is your wife's brother, my guess is that she is the main influence on you to enable this codependency. Therefore, the real problem is between you and your wife.

To be honest, she has realized this too and we are on the same page. Its like a guilty feeling that keeps coming back in our minds that we keep helping unknown people with education and money (mostly anonymously), but we can't or won't do the same with our family members. Its really a catch-22 situation, because if we start helping them again even in the name of the baby, they would again take advantage of us as has been the case always so far. If we were able to provide for the little one alone somehow, i would be really very happy, but the parasites are waiting in the wings.

 

[4x4toy]

Thanks for your reply! You have described my BIL perfectly. He appeared to have turned a new leaf for about 6 months where he had a regular job! I admit we have been enabling him for quite some time, even though we did cut off assistance in between, and this is what probably prompted him to get the job where he was steady for 6 months. As per catholicism we do have a deep relationship when it comes to our god child (and our only niece) and it does pain me to see her suffering for no fault of hers! The only issue is, we have a life of our own, we need to ensure we build up our lives too and i already have a demanding MIL who i have somehow controlled. We can't sit and look after two perfectly healthy individuals who can fend for themselves but the poor little girl is suffering if we don't help, so its like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Hence the attempt to identify if it is ok to use tithe funds for the little girl alone.

And yes , what you do with your money is your business , the church organization is not a little girl in need imo .. You already mention you live in a humble cottage, sounds like you don't want to handcuff yourself by living in debt of a big expensive house in the first place .. You sound like a caring person who regards the Lord in all you do .. Praying you receive peace and guidance on the matter Bro ..

 

[Micky123]

And yes , what you do with your money is your business , the church organization is not a little girl in need imo .. You already mention you live in a humble cottage, sounds like you don't want to handcuff yourself by living in debt of a big expensive house in the first place .. You sound like a caring person who regards the Lord in all you do .. Praying you receive peace and guidance on the matter Bro ..

I don't know about the rest, it is for the lord to decide but yes, i hate debts and we picked a small place because we did not want to be paying a mortgage for the rest of our lives. I am praying for guidance too. Its the lenten season and i would very much like to make a decision before it is up as we will be meeting up in a family gathering for Easter. Thank you for your prayers!

 

[4x4toy]

In 2000 I felt like God told me to get out of debt and stay out of debt.. I preached it to every one , my wife and I live in a double wide mobile home and through the last 15 yrs we are debt free , we were bombarded with easy instant credit approvals , credit cards in the mail , just sign your name and get 10,000 in unsecured credit , temptations every where, we only use debit cards now .. We were able to purchase a lot at the beach and put a nice used singlewide on it in 2009 all cash, we figured we could leave those assets as an inheritance and benefit from it too .. We drive used cars and being debt free is a great feeling .. It also enables us to help folks like you do, also very nice position to be in ..

I have some in-laws I've helped and had to just put my foot down, I've went to work every day both good and horrible jobs . But seems my in-laws don't want to work when it gets tough and quit . They think because we worked and accumulated a little bit we should help more but I say when you've quit your jobs and squandered what you had, we were at work in good times and bad .. I still may help but I will not live in bondage to it .. Tell your BIL to come to your house, you've got some work in Jesus name he can do and put his butt to work for it , wash wax your car .. I say use your tithe money, it is ministry to him .. You can tithe when nothing else is going on .. See if he still needs it so bad then ..

 

[AlexDTX]

To be honest, she has realized this too and we are on the same page. Its like a guilty feeling that keeps coming back in our minds that we keep helping unknown people with education and money (mostly anonymously), but we can't or won't do the same with our family members. Its really a catch-22 situation, because if we start helping them again even in the name of the baby, they would again take advantage of us as has been the case always so far. If we were able to provide for the little one alone somehow, i would be really very happy, but the parasites are waiting in the wings.

That is encouraging that you and wife understand. You need to stand your ground in tough love. Remember, too, that God loves them and the baby more than you do. Our help can get in the way of God's work. When Paul told the Corinthians to let the brother who had carnal relations with his mother in law (I think) he told them to give them to Satan. In other words, let them reap what they are sowing. As long as they have aid, they will not act on their own. Good luck in your resolve.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Tithes were intended to support the Levitical priesthood (because they had no 'inheritance' of land to cultivate in Israel), and to feed the poor of Israel. Most churches today encourage the principle of tithing, not an actual ten per cent of income.

One should consider too that about 25 per cent of all taxes paid go to help the needy through various social programs. A critical aspect of the new covenant is that many of the functions of the "Law of Moses" were given over to civil authorities ("magistrates").

 

[dysert]

Tithes were intended to support the Levitical priesthood (because they had no 'inheritance' of land to cultivate in Israel), and to feed the poor of Israel. Most churches today encourage the principle of tithing, not an actual ten per cent of income.

I strongly suspect that most churches today would *love* to see even half of their congregations giving 10%.

 

[4x4toy]

I'll never say tithing is not beneficial, it is .. I think we are to give to the church but I also think when Jesus said Matthew 25:32-40 it was more on a personal level .. Forty years ago if you give to a major ministry they usually provided two independent auditing firms you could access for account .. I don't mind preachers and church officials living well but private jets and mansions , church bank accounts and assets that rival total wealth of some countries you have to wonder ..

 

[dysert]

Call me cynical, but everyone has the potential to be corrupt. Human nature.

 

[RaymondG]

I strongly suspect that most churches today would *love* to see even half of their congregations giving 10%.

Tithing is still very popular.... I remember a well known message "Tithe or Die" By a famous pastor. Some of the bigger churches require everyone in office to submit W2s and they are mandated to pay 10% of their income or lose their position.

And there are those who put the fear of God in people if they dont Tithe. So people start to believe and think that God will cause them to lose money and their life will fall apart if the dont give 10% back to God. "God gave you the money! why cant you give 10% back to Him!"

My favorite is the auto-tithe. Some churches, who pay the officers, cleaners etc.. take 10% out before they give the payment....so they tithe to God for the employee.. I say nice! Maybe God takes His 10% from me before i get my checks too? Maybe I only make 90% of what God wants me to make...

Anyway, I see no fault in any of this...the problem is, if a person believes bad things will happen if they stop tithing....they have to keep tithing.... What a man thinketh, so is He.... So I dont try to persuade anyone for or against monetary tithe giving. They have to do what they believe they should do.

 

[Sketcher]

This was my initial reaction too, but then we are also called to forgive and help our immediate family too, i know he is taking advantage of us but then again, these other scriptures get in the way, so it is a real quandry. In my country, taking custody of a child is not easy and the laws here are not as favorable... such thoughts will only worsen the situation for me.

We are to forgive, but we are not to enable a pattern of bad behavior. Scripture speaks specifically to this man as you have described him:

Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. - 2 Thess 3:6-10
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As to your country, which country are you from?