"Tithing-Biblical but not Christian"

[MrJim]

http://www.ptmin.org/tithing.htm

Check out this short article and tell me what you think

 

[ZiSunka]

If a believer wishes to tithe out of personal decision or conviction, that is fine.

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
2Corinthians 9:7

I think it is completely accurate that giving is between the person and the Lord and churches who state otherwise are not acting in compliance with NT doctrine.

 

[Jehane]

We are sort of in a different position. Firstly we have no regular ordained preacher that we have to pay. We have guest preachers or members of the congregation who take turns preaching - male or female. God uses those who make themselves available & we are a very SMALL congregation. Consequentially our overheads are also small, so no need of large amounts of money each week. However it is an extremely generous congregation when there is a genuine, specific need & even those in the lower income bracket (which includes us) reach deep into our wallets for those times as they are irregular & don't hurt our budget too much. A fairly indirect answer but I get embarrassed when churches beg for money & my spirit curls up. Yes, the worker is worth his wages but do we really need all these other things that chew up the offering?

 

[MrJim]

We are sort of in a different position. Firstly we have no regular ordained preacher that we have to pay. We have guest preachers or members of the congregation who take turns preaching - male or female. God uses those who make themselves available & we are a very SMALL congregation. Consequentially our overheads are also small, so no need of large amounts of money each week. However it is an extremely generous congregation when there is a genuine, specific need & even those in the lower income bracket (which includes us) reach deep into our wallets for those times as they are irregular & don't hurt our budget too much. A fairly indirect answer but I get embarrassed when churches beg for money & my spirit curls up. Yes, the worker is worth his wages but do we really need all these other things that chew up the offering?

That is an interesting way to "do" it, probably a lot closer to the original than the $75K a year hired preacher with the $15K sound system. And the housekeeper that has to come in to dust the chandeliers...

 

[Bruisedreed]

Well, strictly biblically speaking I am not convinced tithing is neccessary for a new testement christian. We are free from the cerimonial aspects of OT law athough certainly not from the moral aspects therof. The only question is tithing a cerimonial or moral law? To me it seems clear that it is cerimonial. However that said I do tithe and I believe that all christians should regularly give the tithe, substantial offerings(what is substantial depends completely on your income), or both out of love for God. I most certainly disaprove of the articles implication that a poor person should not give, or if they did they would be the poorer for it and should not be encouraged. Remember the widow who fed elijah or she who in the NT cast in two mites? However I agree that there is certainly a right and wrong way to "take" a offering. I am sure most of us have seen where a preacher has "taken" a offering, so to speak. Offerings should be given NOT "taken". By taken I mean taken by a man trying to pull.... it out of people rather than a brief mention and letting the Holy Spirt do the rest. The former is flesh, pure and simple, and it rightly turns many people off. Frankly although not the only way, I admit I like the way my church does it best. A box in the back, no plate, no show, just a few words every couple of months and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. I am happy to say he always takes up enough and to spare.

 

[MrJim]

Well, strictly biblically speaking I am not convinced tithing is neccessary for a new testement christian. We are free from the cerimonial aspects of OT law athough certainly not from the moral aspects therof. The only question is tithing a cerimonial or moral law? To me it seems clear that it is cerimonial. However that said I do tithe and I believe that all christians should regularly give the tithe, substantial offerings(what is substantial depends completely on your income), or both out of love for God. I most certainly disaprove of the articles implication that a poor person should not give, or if they did they would be the poorer for it and should not be encouraged. Remember the widow who fed elijah or she who in the NT cast in two mites? However I agree that there is certainly a right and wrong way to "take" a offering. I am sure most of us have seen where a preacher has "taken" a offering, so to speak. Offerings should be given NOT "taken". By taken I mean taken by a man trying to pull.... it out of people rather than a brief mention and letting the Holy Spirt do the rest. The former is flesh, pure and simple, and it rightly turns many people off. Frankly although not the only way, I admit I like the way my church does it best. A box in the back, no plate, no show, just a few words every couple of months and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. I am happy to say he always takes up enough and to spare.

Given, not taken...I like that!

Welcome to CF bruisedreed

 

[Andyman_1970]

You guys should take a peek in the SFPC forum........they periodically have tithing threads (there are 2 in there now) that I comment on.

I would argue, from a Biblical perspective (keeping in mind the context) we as followers of Jesus in the year 2006 cannot Biblically tithe..........no Biblical tithe has been given since 70AD.

 

[Imblessed]

We tithe.

Our church has black boxes in the back of the auditorium, and doesn't pass around a plate.

Before I go further, I'd like to point out that I do not believe that every christian must tithe. To say so is to put us back under the Law, and we are freed from that. Also---Tithe=Whatever money is given to the church(not 10%, although that is what we give)


One reason we do tithe is conviction. We've had a lot of money problems in the past, including a bankruptcy, and were really having a hard time figuring out how to be good stewards with our money. It's not like we were out buying new stuff all the time(we dont' even have a proper bed, just mattress and boxspring on the ground, and a dresser from a yard sale years ago---and after 13 years of marriage, we finally bought a brand new couch for the first time with tax return money), but we just couldn't seem to get a handle on it, and kept getting further and further behind. We had no savings at all, and literally were living week to week.

We were trying to do it on our own. We were not trusting God to take care of us. So we went to a financial seminar from Crown, and set up a budget and started tithing. Things have come a long way since then, things that can only be attributed to God.

It hurt to start writing out those tithe checks every week. Heck, at the time we couldn't even pay our bills without giving money to the church, how were we going to get it done with 10% less every week? But you know what? We did, and we caught up on our bills.

So, whether you believe it's biblical or not, and whether you believe you should give money to your church or not----for us it's been a huge blessing and we've matured and grown closer to God as a result. Our hope is to start being able to give above and beyond our regular tithe next year---we will probably start sending that money to our favorite charity GoadInternational.


Personally, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, since I really don't know the details of anyone's personal life, I think that not giving money to church, or a local charity, or something like that is a sign of not trusting God to take care of you. God wants all of us, and He wants to be in every part of our life, and that includes our finances. We are blessed by God, and I think He expects us to have those blessing flow through us and out to others---using our time, our minds, AND our money.

my .02 cents worth......

 

[Jehane]

We tithe.

Our church has black boxes in the back of the auditorium, and doesn't pass around a plate.

Before I go further, I'd like to point out that I do not believe that every christian must tithe. To say so is to put us back under the Law, and we are freed from that. Also---Tithe=Whatever money is given to the church(not 10%, although that is what we give)


One reason we do tithe is conviction. We've had a lot of money problems in the past, including a bankruptcy, and were really having a hard time figuring out how to be good stewards with our money. It's not like we were out buying new stuff all the time(we dont' even have a proper bed, just mattress and boxspring on the ground, and a dresser from a yard sale years ago---and after 13 years of marriage, we finally bought a brand new couch for the first time with tax return money), but we just couldn't seem to get a handle on it, and kept getting further and further behind. We had no savings at all, and literally were living week to week.

We were trying to do it on our own. We were not trusting God to take care of us. So we went to a financial seminar from Crown, and set up a budget and started tithing. Things have come a long way since then, things that can only be attributed to God.

It hurt to start writing out those tithe checks every week. Heck, at the time we couldn't even pay our bills without giving money to the church, how were we going to get it done with 10% less every week? But you know what? We did, and we caught up on our bills.

So, whether you believe it's biblical or not, and whether you believe you should give money to your church or not----for us it's been a huge blessing and we've matured and grown closer to God as a result. Our hope is to start being able to give above and beyond our regular tithe next year---we will probably start sending that money to our favorite charity GoadInternational.


Personally, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, since I really don't know the details of anyone's personal life, I think that not giving money to church, or a local charity, or something like that is a sign of not trusting God to take care of you. God wants all of us, and He wants to be in every part of our life, and that includes our finances. We are blessed by God, and I think He expects us to have those blessing flow through us and out to others---using our time, our minds, AND our money.

my .02 cents worth......

Oh, yes I quite agree. The issue is less giving/not giving perhaps than wether the money is used wisely, or perhaps even more, where one is led to give. We don't tithe as such but we have ex-missionary friends with connections to Africa & we give through them to famine relief & again we often hear of families (with children) in financial trouble (ie no food in the cupboards) & we just meet their need for food; we never give money in those situations. As I said our church needs are small - but the needs of our community are not.

 

[Danfrey]

I agree with the giving part. Also, I don't knock anyone for giving to their local congregation, but I think there is nothing wrong with giving directly to those in need. Many churches today teach that the tithe belongs to the church and anything they give elsewhere should be over and above their tithe. For some reason, the tithe is the only thing it is ok to get legalistic about. I think the real issue is that we have created institutions with too much overhead. A simple church structure eliminates the need for so much money. Then the money can go to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and clothing the naked. Think about this, we have multi-million dollar church buildings in this country and there are elderly people who have to choose between medication and food. There is something wrong with that picture. Now, I have to ask, "Where did my last paycheck go?" Sadly, the answer is not to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, or clothing the naked. So, I have a long way to go and no right to point the finger at anyone but the man in the mirror. I watched the Mother Teresa movie a couple of days ago and wept during most of it. She was a woman who knew what it meant to feed the least of these. May we all see Jesus in those who suffer.

 

[Jehane]

I agree with the giving part. Also, I don't knock anyone for giving to their local congregation, but I think there is nothing wrong with giving directly to those in need. Many churches today teach that the tithe belongs to the church and anything they give elsewhere should be over and above their tithe. For some reason, the tithe is the only thing it is ok to get legalistic about. I think the real issue is that we have created institutions with too much overhead. A simple church structure eliminates the need for so much money. Then the money can go to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and clothing the naked. Think about this, we have multi-million dollar church buildings in this country and there are elderly people who have to choose between medication and food. There is something wrong with that picture. Now, I have to ask, "Where did my last paycheck go?" Sadly, the answer is not to feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, or clothing the naked. So, I have a long way to go and no right to point the finger at anyone but the man in the mirror. I watched the Mother Teresa movie a couple of days ago and wept during most of it. She was a woman who knew what it meant to feed the least of these. May we all see Jesus in those who suffer.

Amen to that.

 

[ZiSunka]

but I think there is nothing wrong with giving directly to those in need.

Amen to that! The tithe wasn't just to provide support to the priestly class of the Israelites, it was to provide for the poor, too.

Few churches today do anything to provide for the poor, even those of their own congregation.