Tithing and blessings?

[winslow]

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[GaryArnold]

You are confusing what the firstfruit represented with how the type was figured. The firstfruits are the first of what they represent.

I am not confusing anything.

We are to give 100% of OURSELVES to God. God wants us to give ourselves to Him, not our money.

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

 

[Frogster]

It has nothing to do with the pastor, at least not in the church I am a member of. The pastors job is to minister to the flock which when done correctly is a full time job.

While it is true Paul engaged in a self sustaining ministry (to avoid being accused of profiting off the gospel) he taught the legitimacy of ministers of the gospel receiving wages.

1Co 9:14 So also the Lord ordained those proclaiming the gospel to live from the gospel.

You might want to read the full context of 1 Cor 9, it was a rebuttal against those who challenged Paul's apostleship, to which Paul then said he waived those very rights, and chose to work, TAKING THE HIGH ROAD. He said in the same book in 4:12, and right in 9:6, that he worked. He also said he was not saying that to get money for himself, yet pastors quote your verse that to get their money. Kinda strange huh?


9:15But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting.

 

[Frogster]

It has nothing to do with the pastor, at least not in the church I am a member of. The pastors job is to minister to the flock which when done correctly is a full time job.

While it is true Paul engaged in a self sustaining ministry (to avoid being accused of profiting off the gospel) he taught the legitimacy of ministers of the gospel receiving wages.

1Co 9:14 So also the Lord ordained those proclaiming the gospel to live from the gospel.

Right outta your chapter...


1 Cor 9:6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

Earlier..


12and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure;

There are more Paul working passages, let me know if u would like em posted.

 

[winslow]

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[GaryArnold]

So now I am a racist?

I did not say that ALL SDAs are racist. The SDA church, itself, is set up as racist. In this area, they have the black SDA church, the white SDA church, the Mexican SDA church, etc. etc. etc. I asked WHY people travel all across town to get to the church of their race and the response is the SDA set up their church this way to avoid racism problems. Yeh, right. The whole system is racist! I am not saying other denominations don't do the same thing. It is a shame. We are ALL God's Children.

Some of the members of the SDA church that I attended were racist. The majority of the members were black, and I am white. The Central California Conference told me that because I was white, I still had a right to attend all "black" functions, but could not participate. AND THEY SAY THEY ARE CHRISTIAN? The church I attended also had other white, brown, and Asian members yet they HONORED the "black graduates" and "black veterans" etc. etc. I served in Vietnam but because I am white, well.............. A school-aged child even looked at me and said, to my face, I thought this church is for blacks only! Well, that itself shows something is wrong with their teachings. When I approached the leaders, they merely brushed it off and said that the white church was even worse! Can you believe it? BUT THEY TITHE!!!!!

Since many of my closest friends are SDA, and one even TEACHES tithing, according to what she told me, but NONE OF THEM can even tell me what the scriptures say about tithing. They only know of Malachi 3 which is NOT the tithing ordinances. VERY VERY SAD. The blind leading the blind.

One of my close friends told me I needed to talk to his pastor so the pastor could show me all about tithing. He gave the pastor a book I have written on tithing. The pastor phoned me and said he believed I was right and he tried to get the leaders to meet with me but they refused. The pastor had never really looked at the tithing scriptures!

 

[winslow]

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[winslow]

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[Frogster]

I already stated that Paul chose to work to sustain his ministry. It doesn't matter how many scripture you can produce stating he worked scripture doesn't cancel each other out. He stated that it was acceptable for those preaching the gospel to live off the gospel.

well..just remember the context, it was directed at those who challenged him, and it was about his apostleship, not stay at home mom pastors, getting 10% every sunday from people, for the rest of their lives.


Soooo..how does all this become 10% a week every Sunday?

They were under persecution, traveling tough terrain, in tough times, starting churches etc...big difference. No?

 

[GaryArnold]

You do nothing but talk in circles. You say one thing then turn around and say you didn't say it. Here is exactly what you said:

"I attended an SDA Church for several years before I realized how racist the members were."

You didn't say some members, or talk about church structure or anything else. You called SDA church members racist.

I say again, I attended an SDA Church for several years before I realized how racist the members were. That is NOT saying that ALL SDA members are racist. I was referring to the members of the church I attended. Those who "claimed" they were not racist would agree with me but said they would deny admitting it to the church leaders. To me, that made them, as a general statement, racist.

This blog has to do with tithing and you haven't addressed the history of tithing in the SDA church which proves that SDAs are being LIED to in church. I was lied to when I attended the SDA church.

 

[lanie_0913]

"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." Mal 3:10

We might not be aware of His blessings but He keeps His Word.

to that! God keeps His word!

 

[GaryArnold]

to that! God keeps His word!

Here we go again.

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse (THE STOREHOUSE, not a church building), that there may be meat (FOOD, not money) in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing (A BLESSING OF RAIN), that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

In both chapters 1 and 2 of Malachi there is a conversation going on between God and the priests. Every time the word "you" is used, it is referring to the priests. Chapter 3 continues with this conversation. In verse 5 God says "And I will come near to you to judgment….." In the Old Testament, during this period of time and generally speaking, only the priests could get near to God. It is only in the New Testament that born again believers, you and I, can get close to God. So up to chapter 3 verse 5, God is speaking to the priests. The word "you" is still referring to the priests. There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this changes when you get to verse 8. But that's not all.

Read Numbers 18:29-30 and then read Malachi 1:14. Those verses explain robbing God of the offerings. The PRIESTS, not the people, robbed God of the offering by giving to God the worst instead of the best.

In Nehemiah 13 we are told that the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe; therefore, they had no food to eat at the temple, and they went back to their own fields.

Therefore, taking the Levites portion of the tithe is the robbing God of the tithe. Or to put it another way, THE LEVITES WERE ROBBED. God said He was robbed because the tithe was taken from the Levites.

Next, in Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple. The priests then took those tithes to the storehouse. It only makes sense if God is speaking to the priests in this verse.

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

If Malachi 3 is binding on Christians, IT MUST THEN BE A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT MUST THEN BE A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.

You can make all the excuses you want, you can rationalize the tithe any way you want, but unless you follow THE WORD OF GOD, AS WRITTEN, you are NOT being obedient to God. God, Himself, defined what constitutes His tithe, and God, Himself, said where His tithe was to be taken. Man has no right to change either the definition or the instructions. To do so makes it man’s word, NOT God’s Word.

Why anyone wants to keep the tithe now is beyond me. We are under A BETTER TESTAMENT. Why bring something that was inferior into the New Testament? Giving from the heart, or grace giving, is what the New Testament is all about.

 

[lanie_0913]

Here we go again.

Who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

Eh??? Who are the words for? Don't tell me it's just for the priest???

I am not a scholar or haven't been to a Bible school but as far as I read, the priests / prophets stand as the mediator for God to His people. Priest don't have any wealth right? Also they are the one's doing the offering for the people.

Well who am I to argue with scholars like you guys...
As for me I give back to God what is due Him!

As I have posted in another thread, God gave us freewill...
If you do not want to give tithes, then don't...
We just answer your question In the end It will be you who will decide.
God measure our hearts when we give.

 

[Frogster]

Eh??? Who are the words for? Don't tell me it's just for the priest???

I am not a scholar or haven't been to a Bible school but as far as I read, the priests / prophets stand as the mediator for God to His people. Priest don't have any wealth right? Also they are the one's doing the offering for the people.

Well who am I to argue with scholars like you guys...
As for me I give back to God what is due Him!

As I have posted in another thread, God gave us freewill...
If you do not want to give tithes, then don't...
We just answer your question In the end It will be you who will decide.
God measure our hearts when we give.

Mal 3, it was spoken to those under temple laws, the temple is gone, and so are the temple laws.

By the way, those in jerusalem tithed, and were always poor anyway, that is history.

 

[GaryArnold]

As for me I give back to God what is due Him!

As I have posted in another thread, God gave us freewill...

And what is "due Him"? Can you give any scriptures?

You don't understand the Biblical tithe.

When God gave the Israelites the promised land, he RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherited any land.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

The farmers made their income by SELLING and/or barter-exchanging their crops and animals but did NOT tithe on that income.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

The ONLY tithe God claimed to be His, HE defined in Leviticus 27:30-33.

Yes, He did give us freewill. Do you believe you should use your freewill and CHANGE what God said was His? God NEVER claimed a tenth of anyone's income. Do you believe you should use your freewill and CHANGE where God said to take His tithe? You have the freewill to accept His Word, as it is written, OR you can follow the false teachings of man.

Besides giving us freewill, God also gave us His Spirit, TO USE. Using an Old Testament law as your reason or guideline for tithing is opposite to using His Spirit.

Yes, you have freewill to accept His Word or to reject His Word.

When you understand the Biblical tithe, it makes sense, and it is plain to see that it makes NO sense to try to tithe today. When you merely follow the false teachings of man, you are rejecting God's Word and accepting man's lies.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Eh??? Who are the words for? Don't tell me it's just for the priest???

One doesn't have to tell you . You can read for yourself - when you want . The tithe with respect to the thread topic is not about giving - it is about a command to take care of the Levites and a festival at which the tither eats the tithe . What is left over was to be given o poor , widows , and orphans .

Today , those that misrepresent the tithe commands take mony for themselves and use it to keep their clubs going and their clergy in all the secular trimmings as the common person . They do not allow the tithers to use it to eat at a huge festival . And , if any of it does go to the poor and needy , it is a very small percentage and usually with strings attached to build their group's name .

When so many say that they tithe because the "bible" says to , why is it that so very , very few of them actually read what the "bible" actually says about it ?

 

[Frogster]

One doesn't have to tell you . You can read for yourself - when you want . The tithe with respect to the thread topic is not about giving - it is about a command to take care of the Levites and a festival at which the tither eats the tithe . What is left over was to be given o poor , widows , and orphans .

Today , those that misrepresent the tithe commands take mony for themselves and use it to keep their clubs going and their clergy in all the secular trimmings as the common person . They do not allow the tithers to use it to eat at a huge festival . And , if any of it does go to the poor and needy , it is a very small percentage and usually with strings attached to build their group's name .

When so many say that they tithe because the "bible" says to , why is it that so very , very few of them actually read what the "bible" actually says about it ?

 

[lanie_0913]

And what is "due Him"? Can you give any scriptures?

I'm sorry but why do you think God would want a scripture? He's got knowledge way beyond this universe already.

When so many say that they tithe because the "bible" says to , why is it that so very , very few of them actually read what the "bible" actually says about it ?

I think people read the Bible to learn what God wanted us to do, there are people who studied them to teach what was writter beyond word... as for following what was written, isn't that what we are suppose to do? Aren't tithes go to the church to take care of the Levites of our days and to help out those in need? As far as I know that's where tithes go... If not well that's beyond my knowledge...

 

[GaryArnold]

I'm sorry but why do you think God would want a scripture? He's got knowledge way beyond this universe already.

I think people read the Bible to learn what God wanted us to do, there are people who studied them to teach what was writter beyond word... as for following what was written, isn't that what we are suppose to do? Aren't tithes go to the church to take care of the Levites of our days and to help out those in need? As far as I know that's where tithes go... If not well that's beyond my knowledge...

First, God gave us His Word for a reason. Yes, God has knowledge way beyond this universe, but you and I don't.

Since God said DO NOT ADD TO HIS WORD, AND DO NOT SUBTRACT FROM HIS WORD, no one is supposed to study the Word and teach something beyond the Word.

The tithe NEVER went to the church, and there are no Levites today.

You have to learn how to rightly divide the Word. When God told Noah to build the arc, that doesn't apply to anyone other than Noah. When God told the Israelites to tithe, that doesn't apply to us. God gave specific commands to different people and different groups of people that applied to no one else.

When God reserved a tenth of the crops and animals RAISED ON THE HOLY LAND as His, and commanded that those who inherited the promised land to take that tenth to the Levites AS THEIR INHERITANCE, and for their service at the Temple WHERE THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLED, He said nothing about anyone taking a tenth of their income anywhere.

Deuteronomy 14:22-27 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Deuteronomy 14:23 (KJV)
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deuteronomy 14:24 (KJV)
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deuteronomy 14:25 (KJV)
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deuteronomy 14:26 (KJV)
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Deuteronomy 14:27 (KJV)
27And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Do YOU follow the above? Do you EAT your tithe? That is one of God's tithing commands but you never hear your pastor quote it, do you?

If all of this is beyond your knowledge, then you need to start praying and studying the Bible for yourself. You are putting your trust in your pastor's words rather than God's Word. The ONLY way you can know if your pastor is teaching truth or lies is to compare what your pastor teaches with the scriptures. There is no other way. It took me HUNDREDS of hours to learn the truth about tithing. I have spent THOUSANDS of hours studying this topic. My knowledge of other areas of the Bible is very limited, and I don't claim to know everything there is to know about tithing. But I reached a point where God has called me to teach the topic correctly, and that is what I do.

At the top of my comments is my name. Click on my name and then select to go to my homepage. Read what I have written AND COMPARE IT WITH YOUR BIBLE. Be careful when selecting which version of the Bible to use. Some versions, like THE LIVING BIBLE, is more like a commentary and is NOT a true translation of God's Word. I prefer the KJV myself, and I use it with Strong's Hebrew and Greek concordance-dictionary.

You have been taught lies. If your pastor teaches that tithing is required today, or that the Bible teaches that you tithe on your income, you need to find another church.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I think people read the Bible to learn what God wanted us to do, there are people who studied them to teach what was writter beyond word... as for following what was written, isn't that what we are suppose to do?

Since I suppose that *I* am a part of that "we" , the answer is a resounding "no" and the Scriptures bear witness to this .

Why would you think that is the case ? Why would you read the "bible" to learn what the Lord wants others besides yourself to do ?

Aren't tithes go to the church to take care of the Levites of our days and to help out those in need?

If you thought that was true , you would have passages to show why you thought so . The only "Levites of our days" would be actual Levites . It would help you to know how the Levites were given the station they were placed . As is , all Christians are priests with Jesus the high priest .

We can help those in need without tithes . And , very , very , very little of what is collected *as* tithes in the tothe groups is given to those in need . Almost all goes to their buildings , land , hirelings , and projects to increase their group's name .

As far as I know that's where tithes go... If not well that's beyond my knowledge...

Ok then . If you look at a concordance and find all the passages on "tithe" and "tithing" and look at them in context , your knowledge will increase . Part of it will allow you to know that tithes do not go to those places .