Tithing and blessings?

[GaryArnold]

If only farmers tithed then please explain this verse:

Matt 23:23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocities! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumimin,.....


Scribes and Pharisees were not farmers. Paul was a Pharisee but was a tent maker by trade.

The reference to mint, anise and cummin is a stab at them for being so legalistic towards tithing while neglecting the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy and faith.

If they grew herbs, they were "farmers." No one said their occupation had to be farming. The Biblical tithe was always FOOD from crops and animals. Herbs are food.

 

[GaryArnold]

@Elder 111 - The Biblical tithe was always on ASSETS and never on income. Increase OF THE SEED (crops) and every tenth animal.

The farmers got their income from the sale and/or barter exchange of their crops and animals (assets). You get income by selling assets. The tithe was on the assets, not the income.

When God gave the Israelites the promised land, he RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherited any land.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

 

[Frogster]

If only farmers tithed then please explain this verse:

Matt 23:23 Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocities! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumimin,.....


Scribes and Pharisees were not farmers. Paul was a Pharisee but was a tent maker by trade.

The reference to mint, anise and cummin is a stab at them for being so legalistic towards tithing while neglecting the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy and faith.

Exactly, and Paul, for the most part, worked, not to burden the church, and put no obstacle ahead of the gospel.

Titus, Barnabas, Timothy, Silas, all worked too...


Pastor needs to get a job too!

 

[New_Wineskin]

The book of Acts is about the early church, not modern church
The book of Romans to the church at Rome
The books I & II Corinthians to the church at Corinth
The book of Galatians to the Churches of Galatia
The book of Ephesians to the church at Ephesus
The book of Philippians to the church at Philipi
The book of Colossians to the church at Colosse
The books I & II Thesalonians to the church at Thesalonia
The books I & II Timothy to Timothy
The book of Titus to Titus
The book of Philimon to Philimon
The book of Hebrews to Hebrew Christians
The book of James to the 12 scattered tribes
The book of 1st Peter to the pilgrims of the dispersion (not plymouth)
The book of 2nd Peter to 1st century church
The books 0f I, II John to the churches of Asia
The book of III John to Gaius
The book of Jude to the first century church
The book of Relelation to the seven churches of Asia

None of that has anything to do with my post or the thread .

For the record the tithe was not soley for distribution to the priests, it was also for the stranger, the widows and the orphans.

For the record , I already had that on the record . I mentioned the tithe with respect to the festival which deals with those .

The question wasn't whether you accept the principle of tithing, it was does the Lord promise a blessing on those who do?

To respond to whether the Lord promises a blessing on those who do , it is necessary to provide who the Lord spoke to regarding the tithe and what the tithe entailed .

The bible does indeed promise blessings for those who declare their faith in this manner and is evidenced through the testimony of those that do.

You just stated that the question was "does the Lord promise a blessing on those who do" - not whether "The bible does " . Unless your bible is your lord , those are two completely different things .

Regardless , the Scriptures do not account for a blessing on those who simply throw 10% out in the wild blue . The blessing is contingent on following the commands to the letter .

Another thing . You are incorrect in what the question was . There were serveral and my response dealt with it .

The questions were :
"Does the Bible say that we will be blessed if we tithe?"
My answer is no since *I* am not a physical descendant of the Israelites and so am not involved in the tithe commands to obtain the blessings associated with the tithe commands .

"Does tithing have any relation to receiving blessings?"
My answer is only in context .

"If we don't tithe will we miss out on some blessings that God has for us?"
My answer is no - I cannot miss out on something that the Lord did not have for me in the beginning .

 

[GaryArnold]

Let's look at Malachi 3:10-11.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse (THE storehouse, not a storehouse; not a church building), that there may be meat (meat, not money; FOOD) in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing (RAIN - the blessing was RAIN for the Nation of Israel), that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer (locust; insects) for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground (crops); neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

The blessings promised in Malachi 3 is RAIN. If the Nation of Israel did not tithe PER THE LAW, they could be cursed by insects destroying their crops. Very simple when you stick with the scriptures rather than the lies of pastors.

Compare the above with the following:

Genesis 7:11-12
11 The same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Genesis 8:2
2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained

See how pastors take the scriptures and try to make you believe the scriptures are saying something totally different? It is sad how pastors twist the scriptures to get more money.

 

[Elder 111]

Excuse me, but Abe gave once, in a 175 year life span, out of the spoils of war, it was not even his money, so if u r going to use him, then i will tithe after i slaughter a bunch of kings too.


Also Abe was circumcised, and offered animals, do i do that, just because he did?

Why do you and others take it that if it is mentioned once that it only happened once? do you expect that every even will be mentioned in the bible?
Grow up!

 

[Freedom63]

Why do you and others take it that if it is mentioned once that it only happened once? do you expect that every even will be mentioned in the bible?
Grow up!

Why do you assume otherwise? We do not establish doctrine on maybe do we?

 

[Frogster]

Why do you and others take it that if it is mentioned once that it only happened once? do you expect that every even will be mentioned in the bible?
Grow up!

Lol..the post took down your argument! That is what triggered this reaction....

 

[GaryArnold]

Why do you and others take it that if it is mentioned once that it only happened once? do you expect that every even will be mentioned in the bible?
Grow up!

Let's grow up and use some common sense.

There is ONE example in the scriptures of Abram (Abraham) giving a tenth, and that tenth was on spoils of war that didn't even belong to Abram. NO example of Abraham ever tithing on his income.

Even a child can see that isn't an example for Christians to follow today. Even a child can see that one example doesn't establish a precedent.

And since God did NOT want a tenth of war spoils under the Mosaic law, it is common sense that what Abram did had absolutely nothing to do with the later tithing commands.

Since God command THREE different tithes, each with a different definition, each with different instructions, and each with a different purpose, a child should be able to figure out that there is something wrong when church leaders only teach ONE tithe, and they change that tithe to one's income, and they change the instructions to bring the tithe to the church.

Yes, it is time to grow up and face the scriptures as they are written and time to stop playing childish games with God's Word.

 

[Frogster]

Let's grow up and use some common sense.

There is ONE example in the scriptures of Abram (Abraham) giving a tenth, and that tenth was on spoils of war that didn't even belong to Abram. NO example of Abraham ever tithing on his income.

Even a child can see that isn't an example for Christians to follow today. Even a child can see that one example doesn't establish a precedent.

And since God did NOT want a tenth of war spoils under the Mosaic law, it is common sense that what Abram did had absolutely nothing to do with the later tithing commands.

Since God command THREE different tithes, each with a different definition, each with different instructions, and each with a different purpose, a child should be able to figure out that there is something wrong when church leaders only teach ONE tithe, and they change that tithe to one's income, and they change the instructions to bring the tithe to the church.

Yes, it is time to grow up and face the scriptures as they are written and time to stop playing childish games with God's Word.

 

[SeekJusticeLoveMercy]

Here is something else I don't understand after having read this thread... What is the point behind tithing? God clearly doesn't need my money, He doesn't use it for anything, it's not like He has to worry about putting food on the table for the angels or anything. I know that running a church obviously costs money so it would make sense that we should give money to keep the church up & running.
Also, what is the difference between tithing and an offering?

 

[GaryArnold]

what is the difference between tithing and an offering?

The Biblical tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33, Numbers 18) was a payment, like a tax.

Here are some similarities between a tax and the tithe:

Tithe - paid by those who inherited the promised land.
Inheritance or Estate tax - paid from the estate or inheritance.

Tithe - ONLY on property owners.
Property tax - ONLY on property owners.

Tithe - used to run the theocracy.
Income tax - used to run the government.

Tithe - doesn't apply to the poor.
Luxury tax - doesn't apply to the poor.

Tithing can also be compared to sharecropping.

Tithing was always taxation so that the programs of the government could run: the priestly program, the national religious program, and the welfare program.
Taken from God’s Plan for Giving, John MacArthur, Moody Press, 1985, page 76.

God placed all of these verses in our Bibles to remind us that Levites were public officials of the state and tithes were included as state-taxation to support them.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 70.

Even the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica, agrees that tithes were political taxes.
Taken from Should the Church Teach Tithing, Russell E. Kelly, Ph.D., page 71.

See also William Hendriksen and Simon J. Kistemaker, New Testament Commentary: Exposition of Thessalonians, the Pastorals, and Hebrews (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1995), 187, for support of the relationship between taxes and tithing.

Offerings in the Old Testament were both required offerings and free-will offerings.

Christians are encouraged to give free-will offerings, from the heart.

 

[Elder 111]

Here is something else I don't understand after having read this thread... What is the point behind tithing? God clearly doesn't need my money, He doesn't use it for anything, it's not like He has to worry about putting food on the table for the angels or anything. I know that running a church obviously costs money so it would make sense that we should give money to keep the church up & running.
Also, what is the difference between tithing and an offering?

It is clearly stated that is was for the priesthood and the Levis, who were working on the behalf of God.
It is for the payment of pastors, church worker and the helping the poor and needy in the congregation.
Not to make them rich, for those who are rich in this world have a hard time being in the next.

 

[Frogster]

It is clearly stated that is was for the priesthood and the Levis, who were working on the behalf of God.
It is for the payment of pastors, church worker and the helping the poor and needy in the congregation.
Not to make them rich, for those who are rich in this world have a hard time being in the next.

Show me where it says 10% every Sunday, as long as a person lives, that he is bound to this taxation that has been placed on the church?

Elders need to get a job.


Acts 20:17Now from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him. 18And when they came to him, he said to them:



35In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

 

[GaryArnold]

It is clearly stated that is was for the priesthood and the Levis, who were working on the behalf of God.
It is for the payment of pastors, church worker and the helping the poor and needy in the congregation.
Not to make them rich, for those who are rich in this world have a hard time being in the next.

It is also clearly stated that the tithe was the INHERITANCE of the Levites, and neither the Levites nor the priests could own any land.

There is NO scripture where God ever gave any pastor or church permission to receive the tithe. It is clear in the scriptures that the tithe was disannulled (Hebrews 7:5,12,18). It is clear by studying the history of tithing in the Christian Church that no church ever taught anyone to tithe on their income before 1870.

The scriptures are clear. Pastors have clearly twisted and/or changed the scripture to fill their pocketbook.

 

[Elder 111]

Show me where it says 10% every Sunday, as long as a person lives, that he is bound to this taxation that has been placed on the church?

Elders need to get a job.


Acts 20:17Now from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church to come to him. 18And when they came to him, he said to them:



35In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"

Tell God, it is He who made the provision even for the Levites. Unless you have a difference bible it is stated clearly there.

 

[Frogster]

Tell God, it is He who made the provision even for the Levites. Unless you have a difference bible it is stated clearly there.

it was for the now gone jewish temple.....gone..over...done....

 

[GaryArnold]

Tell God, it is He who made the provision even for the Levites. Unless you have a difference bible it is stated clearly there.

I see you cop out again with no scripture to back up your comments. I now have to say, and I apologize in advance, I believe you are a liar. Prove me wrong by giving scripture backing up your claims, OR just admit that you are a fake.

 

[GaryArnold]

Preacher: You tithe on the first ten percent of your income.

God’s Word: You tithe on crops, and every tenth animal that passes under the rod. NOT the first, but the tenth. See Leviticus 27:30-33. Preachers are mixing firstfruits with the tithe and they are NOT the same. In Nehemiah 10:37-38 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities.

Preacher: The Levites worked full-time at The Temple.

God’s Word: The Levities and priests were divided into “24 courses” and they rotated working at The Temple one week out of every 24 weeks. Therefore, the priests and Levites actually worked at The Temple about two weeks a year. The rest of the time they had regular jobs. See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

Preacher: You tithe the BEST to God.

God’s Word: You tithe every tenth animal whether that animal be good OR BAD. See Leviticus 27:30-33.

Preacher: The firstfruits of your income belong to God.

God’s Word: In the Old Testament, every time a firstfruits offering is mentioned it is referring to the first of the crop, assets that came from God’s hand, not man’s labor. Firstfruits offerings has nothing to do with income.

Preacher: The tithe was taken to The Temple.

God’s Word: The tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities. See Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: Malachi 3:10 Take all the tithes to the storehouse.

God’s Word: The Levites received the tithe, and they were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests. ONLY that tithe went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the people. Again, see Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: You are robbing God if you don’t bring your tithe to the church. Malachi 3:8-10.

God’s Word: The priests were robbing God, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe by stealing the Levites portion (Nehemiah 13). The priests robbed God of the offerings by giving the worst and keeping the best (Malachi 1).

God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as HOLY. How can anyone change God’s definition and then call a tenth of their income a HOLY tithe!

Teaching that tithing is required today is teaching a lie. What is a person called who tells lies? A liar. The church is full of them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

When God reinstates the shekel as a valid currency then we can think about giving God what is His. In the meantime, we have currency that is purely secular and on which we are taxed.

I say, no taxation without representation. BTW I am not in the least bit opposed to gifts and offerings.