Tithing, A requirement?

In my congregation, we don't believe in tithing. Tithe was basically a tax in the Jewish nation. There should be no paid clergy today. Mt. 10:8 "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons: freely ye received, freely give."
There is no scriptures teaching tithing in the N.T. I haven't seen any posted in this thread. Acts. 15 gives the account of when the apostles decided which parts of the Law had to be obeyed still (besides the obvious which are repeated in the NT). Acts 15:5 "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses." Tithing was not one of those things mentioned in v.28,29.

In my congregation, there are no paid clergy, no fancy buildings, very little expense. There is a box in the back if anyone wants to contribute for the upkeep. I am one of Jehovah's witnesses.

10% of every check belongs to God (your church)

If you dont pay it your a thief and a robber - and will be cursed until you give God whats His to begin with

He gave you your job and your paycheck - you should be happy to give it

Malachi 3:9

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

It isnt just your churches law - its Gods law

PROPHECYKID said:

One problem. As Paul said the law was never given for that reason but to point out sin. Moses was not counted as righteous because he followed the law but because of his faith and allegiance to God. As long as there is love there is a law which is automatically fulfilled as it was in the OT.

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Moses did indeed have to keep the Law that God gave Israel, and so did Jesus. If either one had broken a commandment it would have been counted as a sin and they would have had to offer the appropriate sacrifice for it.

Alan

Mister_Al said:

Moses did indeed have to keep the Law that God gave Israel, and so did Jesus. If either one had broken a commandment it would have been counted as a sin and they would have had to offer the appropriate sacrifice for it.

Alan

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So it is still a sin today?

Let’s look at Malachi 3. First, who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

In both chapters 1 and 2 of Malachi there is a conversation going on between God and the priests. Every time the word "you" is used, it is referring to the priests. Chapter 3 continues with this conversation. In verse 5 God says "And I will come near to you to judgment….." In the Old Testament, during this period of time and generally speaking, only the priests could get near to God. It is only in the New Testament that born again believers, you and I, can get close to God. So up to chapter 3 verse 5, God is speaking to the priests. The word "you" is still referring to the priests. There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this changes when you get to verse 8. But that's not all.

Read Numbers 18:29-30 and then read Malachi 1:14. Those verses explain robbing God of the offerings. The PRIESTS, not the people, robbed God of the offering by giving to God the worst instead of the best.

In Nehemiah 13 we are told that the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe; therefore, they had no food to eat at the temple, and they went back to their own fields.

Therefore, taking the Levites portion of the tithe is the robbing God of the tithe. Or to put it another way, THE LEVITES WERE ROBBED. God said He was robbed because the tithe was not taken where God directed.

Next, in Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple. The priests then took those tithes to the storehouse. It only makes sense if God is speaking to the priests in this verse.

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:5,12,18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

Therefore, IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT IS A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.

You can make all the excuses you want, you can rationalize the tithe any way you want, but unless you follow THE WORD OF GOD, AS WRITTEN, you are NOT being obedient to God. God, Himself, defined what constitutes His tithe (crops and animals per Leviticus 27:30-33), and God, Himself, said where His tithe was to be taken (to the Levites per Numbers 18). Man has no right to change either the definition or the instructions. To do so makes it man’s word, NOT God’s Word.

Why anyone wants to keep the tithe now is beyond me. We are under A BETTER TESTAMENT. Why bring something that was inferior into the New Testament? Giving from the heart, or grace giving, is what the New Testament is all about.

Preacher: You tithe on the first ten percent of your income.

God’s Word: You tithe on crops, and every tenth animal that passes under the rod. NOT the first, but the tenth. See Leviticus 27:30-33. Preachers are mixing firstfruits with the tithe and they are NOT the same. In Nehemiah 10:37-38 we learn that the firstfruits were taken to the temple for the priests, and the tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities.

Preacher: The Levites worked full-time at The Temple.

God’s Word: The Levities and priests were divided into “24 courses” and they rotated working at The Temple one week out of every 24 weeks. Therefore, the priests and Levites actually worked at The Temple about two weeks a year. The rest of the time they had regular jobs. See First Chronicles 24 for the priests and chapters 25 and 26 for the Levites.

Preacher: You tithe the BEST to God.

God’s Word: You tithe every tenth animal whether that animal be good OR BAD. See Leviticus 27:30-33.

Preacher: The firstfruits of your income belong to God.

God’s Word: In the Old Testament, every time a firstfruits offering is mentioned it is referring to the first of the crop, assets that came from God’s hand, not man’s labor. Firstfruits offerings has nothing to do with income.

Preacher: The tithe was taken to The Temple.

God’s Word: The tithe was taken to the Levites to go into their cities. See Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: Malachi 3:10 Take all the tithes to the storehouse.

God’s Word: The Levites received the tithe, and they were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the priests. ONLY that tithe went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the people. Again, see Nehemiah 10:37-38.

Preacher: You are robbing God if you don’t bring your tithe to the church. Malachi 3:8-10.

God’s Word: The priests were robbing God, not the people. The priests robbed God of the tithe by stealing the Levites portion (Nehemiah 13). The priests robbed God of the offerings by giving the worst and keeping the best (Malachi 1).

God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33 as HOLY. How can anyone change God’s definition and then call a tenth of their income a HOLY tithe!

NewCreature13 said:

10% of every check belongs to God (your church)

If you dont pay it your a thief and a robber - and will be cursed until you give God whats His to begin with

He gave you your job and your paycheck - you should be happy to give it

Malachi 3:9

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

It isnt just your churches law - its Gods law

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Those verses were from a system and a priesthood, that are no longer around, besides, gentiles never tithed anyway.

Here is a great site.
Should the Church Teach Tithing? Taboo Answer

Another hoax in the prosperity movement, is their use of "faith seeds". In 2 Cor 8-9, Paul who worked not to be a burden, was gathering money (seeds) for the poor in jerusalem, not for himself, yet the faith seed teachers, always use that teaching, to get money for their own selves, and their minstries. They never quote how Paul worked though..lol!

Religion is a big show business.

Mister_Al said:

Tithing is a commandment in the Old Testament Law and those that were under the Law had to obey it to be righteous before God. However, since the Christian is righteous through Christ your still in good standing before God if you choose not to tithe.
Alan

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abraham had faith and gave a tenth(tithe) to the priest Melchizedek and we know that Melchizedek is a type of Christ. it is proven in the book of hebrews that men of the OT such as moses knew who Christ was, so abraham knew who Jesus was and gave him a tithe.

the early church gave all they had. to me 10% does not seem like much compared to the sacrifice that the early church made, of course I guess the early church was more holy than we are.

Problem is, when the tithe proponents hold up Abe, they don't say it was once, in a 175 year lifespan, and it was not his money, it was from the slaughter of the kings.

I love to ask pastors if they do something to support themselves like Paul did. Who was busier than Paul?

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today.

For the most part, Paul worked to support himself..


Didache 12:5 But if he wishes to settle with you, being a craftsman, let him work for and eat his bread.

PROPHECYKID said:

So it is still a sin today?

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If you are under this covenant (the Law) with God, then yes it is a sin not to tithe. But the Law wasn't ever given to the gentiles, only to the Jews, and, therefore, the Law has never had any power over us.

Alan

First, I want to hear testimonies of what happened when people took God up on His "Test Me now in this." That is, when we began titheing as a test, was there a clear increase in prosperity?

Second, Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees, in no way would we enter into the kingdom of God. But, when talking about the pharisees, He only commended them for their righteousness in titheing. Does that mean that we ought to give more? The rest of the "You have heard it said" passages in the Sermon on the Mount discussing matters from the law gave standards far more demanding than the law.

Third, the law on tithing indicates spending some of it for holy trips and worship expenses, including "strong drink," if desired. Would walking in the Spirit result in a more flexible disribution of the tithe?

If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.
James 2:10

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. Galatians 5:3

It doesn't matter, what the 'particular' law is - if you think you need to keep
it, you are obligated to keep all of them perfectly.

In the early church days, circumcision was a major issue.

Whatever you add to JESUS, makes for the fact that JESUS alone
is not good enough. Why? Because it has to be JESUS + (something).

When salvation is found in nothing or no-one else. Acts 4:12

In fact what is truth, is actually the opposite of what I (and many of you
were taught), we were taught that if you don't tithe, you will be cursed, but
in fact if you add anything to JESUS and put yourself into self-effort or adding
to HIS finished work - those are the ones that are cursed. See Galatians 1

All who are depending upon their own obedience to the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "Cursed is every one who does not remain faithful to all the precepts of the Law, and practise them." Galatians 3:10

-eric

-eric

ezeric said:

If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.
James 2:10

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. Galatians 5:3

It doesn't matter, what the 'particular' law is - if you think you need to keep
it, you are obligated to keep all of them perfectly.

In the early church days, circumcision was a major issue.

Whatever you add to JESUS, makes for the fact that JESUS alone
is not good enough. Why? Because it has to be JESUS + (something).

When salvation is found in nothing or no-one else. Acts 4:12

In fact what is truth, is actually the opposite of what I (and many of you
were taught), we were taught that if you don't tithe, you will be cursed, but
in fact if you add anything to JESUS and put yourself into self-effort or adding
to HIS finished work - those are the ones that are cursed. See Galatians 1

All who are depending upon their own obedience to the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "Cursed is every one who does not remain faithful to all the precepts of the Law, and practise them." Galatians 3:10

-eric

-eric

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Seriously though, how can you claim that tithing is adding to Jesus? Doesn't it boil down to the reason you are doing it?

ezeric said:

If someone obeys all of God's laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them.
James 2:10

And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. Galatians 5:3

It doesn't matter, what the 'particular' law is - if you think you need to keep
it, you are obligated to keep all of them perfectly.

In the early church days, circumcision was a major issue.

Whatever you add to JESUS, makes for the fact that JESUS alone
is not good enough. Why? Because it has to be JESUS + (something).

When salvation is found in nothing or no-one else. Acts 4:12

In fact what is truth, is actually the opposite of what I (and many of you
were taught), we were taught that if you don't tithe, you will be cursed, but
in fact if you add anything to JESUS and put yourself into self-effort or adding
to HIS finished work - those are the ones that are cursed. See Galatians 1

All who are depending upon their own obedience to the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "Cursed is every one who does not remain faithful to all the precepts of the Law, and practise them." Galatians 3:10

-eric

-eric

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We are saved through faith, which is seen through our works. The lawless think that they are saved, crying "Lord, Lord!" but had deceived themselves. They thought that they believed in the grace of God, but had no lawful works to show for it. Instead of responding to this failure to keep the commandments, as evidence of their faith, they shrugged it off, and so never brought fruit appropriate to their repentance, as commanded. They did have miraculous works as evidence of another sort of faith, but the faith that leads to salvation on that day is faith to keep the law. The fruit of the Spirit is loce, and this is love, that we keep His commandments. Not legalistically, of course, but faithfully. Gotta get 'er done.

Money, the root of all evil. I am the church, no, I am not confined behind the walls, woe to all self righteous giver. As more mega churches are being built, the increase in homelessness is staggering. Where is my Father's house ?

JESUSIAM said:

Money, the root of all evil. I am the church, no, I am not confined behind the walls, woe to all self righteous giver. As more mega churches are being built, the increase in homelessness is staggering. Where is my Father's house ?

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Well, the church in Fairbanks, Alaska greets the church in Corpus Christi, Texas. Our common Head told us as well that the walls and buildings that get called "churches" are a grief to Him. He tells us to invest the tithes in buying the truth, in labors and teachings that, in the absence of any qualified apostles (do you know any?), can help us learn what we are supposed to be taught, "all things whatsoever (Jesus) commanded (His disciples.)" Bill Gothard has a curriculum. Giving to he poor also is directed, but He counsels us that the poor are poor because they do not tithe, and that we ought to pray for them, and teach them as we give to them, that they would understand this. Would, in the love of truth, test Him in this, and tithe out of their meagerness hoping to see His hand in their lives, delivering and prospering them.

His house is wherever disciples are learning His commandments, are being a house of prayer, and are not going beyond what is written about church life. By disciples, He means those who hear and understand the foundation of the gospel. "All authority in heaven and earth is given" to Jesus. Disciples have heard God affirm His control over all authority, have happily submitted one to another, and to leaders and heads, and are diligent with their studies, to be approved. Whereever you find such, there is our Father's house. Not many such places in rich America, alas. But let us hope in the promise that "the wicked are springing up like grass, that they may be destroyed forevermore." In these perilous times,"the prudent hide themselves." But you are not alone. Just study the imperative voice commands of Jesus to His disciples, learning Frank Laubach's message, to become like Him, only saying what you hear our Father saying, only doing what you see Him doing.

For eight years, we prayed earnestly for you and your city. Expect to do glorious things. But study.