Tithing 10% of gross or net?

[GaryArnold]

In the most prosperous country in the world, where most people don't even give 5% regardless of whether they are rich or poor, 10% on the gross definitely ought to be a goal. Gotta give 10% before you can give more than that. However, an unfortunate number of middle class, upper-middle class, and upper class Christians use what you are teaching as an excuse to give less, while many Christians in the third world will give you the shirts off their backs (well over 10%). I believe we should aspire to give more, not less.

And just WHY do you believe people don't give very much? Might it just possibly be because pastors are teaching false doctrine rather than teaching New Testament giving principles?

You have absolutely no idea what I teach about giving. You only know I am against teaching tithing.

I have found that "churches" that do NOT teach tithing bring in more money than they need. In fact, my research indicates that the JW bring in more money per member than any other denomination, yet they don't teach tithing. Pastor John MacArthur's mega church in Southern California brings in all the money they need, yet he doesn't teach tithing. The teaching of tithing goes AGAINST New Testament giving principles.

If a pastor really understood the New Testament giving principles, I would think they would be teaching it. Problem is, it seems all too hard to find a pastor who is qualified to properly teach giving.

Common sense: tithing didn't work in the Old Testament (Malachi 3) and it obviously doesn't work in the New Testament, so why not use New Testament giving principles that do work?

 

[Sketcher]

And just WHY do you believe people don't give very much? Might it just possibly be because pastors are teaching false doctrine rather than teaching New Testament giving principles?

No, it's because of statistics.

America’s Generosity Divide - How America Gives - The Chronicle of Philanthropy- Connecting the nonprofit world with news, jobs, and ideas

You have absolutely no idea what I teach about giving. You only know I am against teaching tithing.

Which is all I need to make my point. Many believers, including upscale ones, use the doctrine that the tithe is OT-only as an excuse to give less. Correct or not, many people are reacting to it by holding on to more of their money rather than giving away more of it. It's liberating to people who are poor, but if someone isn't poor, it becomes an excuse.

I have found that "churches" that do NOT teach tithing bring in more money than they need. In fact, my research indicates that the JW bring in more money per member than any other denomination, yet they don't teach tithing. Pastor John MacArthur's mega church in Southern California brings in all the money they need, yet he doesn't teach tithing. The teaching of tithing goes AGAINST New Testament giving principles.

If a pastor really understood the New Testament giving principles, I would think they would be teaching it. Problem is, it seems all too hard to find a pastor who is qualified to properly teach giving.

Common sense: tithing didn't work in the Old Testament (Malachi 3) and it obviously doesn't work in the New Testament, so why not use New Testament giving principles that do work?

My church teaches NT giving principles, and while we do not emphasize 10%, we encourage working up to it as you are able to joyfully. Our emphasis is on joyful giving out of thanks for what God has blessed us with, and a family obligation to be participants in ministry, both with money and time. I personally believe that 10% is a good baseline for giving as it is significant enough to be sacrificial. It's also very easy to calculate. I will say that the heart of giving is more significant than the percentage, but having that percentage in mind helped bring me to the heart of giving.

 

[GaryArnold]

My church teaches NT giving principles, and while we do not emphasize 10%, we encourage working up to it as you are able to joyfully. Our emphasis is on joyful giving out of thanks for what God has blessed us with, and a family obligation to be participants in ministry, both with money and time. I personally believe that 10% is a good baseline for giving as it is significant enough to be sacrificial. It's also very easy to calculate. I will say that the heart of giving is more significant than the percentage, but having that percentage in mind helped bring me to the heart of giving.

I doubt you even know what the New Testament giving principles are.

If you have to "encourage working up to 10%" then you obviously have no clue as to what the New Testament giving principles are. If you knew what the New Testament giving principles are, you would never believe that 10% is a good baseline for giving.

You've proven my point that most pastors have no clue as to how to teach the giving principles from the New Testament. Absolutely NO CLUE.

And many who actually do understand the principles are afraid to teach them since it isn't what most people want to hear. They get less flack teaching tithing.

 

[Bobinator]

A lot of posts on this thread indicate that positions are being taken based on false teaching rather than the scriptures.

There is no such thing as Christian tithing. That is not scriptural. Tithing ended at the cross per Hebrews 7:5,12,18.

I believe you are taking Hebrews 7 out of context. The writer of Hebrews was talking about the Levitical priesthood not being perfect, and that a change was needed after the order of Melchizek, under which Jesus was born. Hebrews was justifying why the Levitical priests tithed, because there was a greater order above them, and that even Abraham tithed Melchizedek. I don't think we're greater than Jesus are we?

The New Testament calls for a higher standard. We are to pray and seek the Spirit. Being Spirit led instead of using out-dated Old Testament standards that ended at the cross, I find myself giving between 30% and 50% of my income on a consistent basis.

As far as I'm concerned, tithes and offerings (which are above and beyond the tithe) always existed. Offerings are of one's own free will.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

1 - According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe (Numbers 18).

Numbers 18:26 requires the Levites to tithe on the tithes received of the people referred to as the heave offering. Hebrews 7 also says that even Abraham tithed Melchizedek. The Levites came under Abraham.

Hebrews 7:[1] For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
[2] To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
[3] Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
[4] Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
[5] And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
[6] But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
[7] And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
[8] And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
[9] And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
[10] For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.


2 - As priests, all born-again believers are equal. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe.

In the Book of Acts, the believers gave all and all things became common. Things were divided among the people according to their need.

It's not about who's better than the other. It's about supporting the work of God. Though we ought to submit to one another in the humility of God, there are still ranks and authorities to follow. Even the angels have ranks, wherefore Michael is called the Arch Angel, and Jesus is called the Captain of the Lord's Hosts. I never knew an army that could function without rank and order.



1Corin.9:3 [4] Have we not power to eat and to drink?...[6] ... have not we power to forbear working?...[8] Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?[9] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?[10] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.[11] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?...
[13] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the alter are partakers with the alter?[14] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Jesus didn't come to do away with the Law. He came to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17)

3 - To try and “tithe” today is denying that you are a part of a Royal Priesthood.

I defer to 1Corin.9. I don't think Abraham thought any less of himself as God's servant. Jesus also praised the poor woman who tithed 2 mites in Luke 21:4.

Are you an Old Testament Jew or a New Testament born-again believer?

Comments above in blue.

 

[GaryArnold]

@Bobinator,

The first time tithe is mentioned in the Bible is Abraham's tithe of pagan spoils of war, and Abraham kept NOTHING for himself. This was NOT an act of worship. The goods that Abraham gave the tenth from didn’t even belong to Abraham:

Genesis 14:21 (NIV) - The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”

Notice in verse 21 the king of Sodom didn’t ask Abraham if he would give back to him the people, but rather said GIVE ME the people and keep the goods for yourself. The way that is worded indicates that the king of Sodom was claiming that the people and the goods belonged to him and those he represented.

Genesis 14:22-24 (NIV) - 22But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “I have raised my hand to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, and have taken an oath 23that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the thong of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’ 24I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshcol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”

Notice in verses 23 and 24 Abraham also acknowledges that the goods belonged to the king of Sodom and those he represented.

Therefore, it is clear that both the king of Sodom and Abraham acknowledged that the spoils of war did NOT belong to Abraham, yet he gave a tenth of the spoils to King Melchizedek. This would seem that Abraham did something wrong, if not even illegal, but Biblical historians agree that it was custom in Abraham's day to give the king a tenth of the war spoils. Had Abraham not given the tenth, he would have gone against custom.

Conclusion: Abraham did NOT give a tenth of his income, or his wealth. Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war that didn’t belong to him. That is NOT an example for Christians to follow today. Furthermore, the law did NOT require a tenth of war spoils to be given, but rather 1.1%, so to say that tithing was before the law and then in the law is not true. What Abraham did was NOT codified into the later law.

The next mention of a tithe is Jacob's VOW to tithe. Jacob set the conditions, not God. Nowhere in The Word does it tell us that Jacob actually tithed. Genesis 28:10-22

Next is The Lord's Tithe. God gave His definition as a tenth of crops and animals which came from God's hand, not man's income. God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on anything that man made or earned. Leviticus 27:30-33.

The ordinances (instructions, or laws) for The Lord's Tithe are in Numbers 18. God gave strict orders to take His tithe to the Levites. God NEVER changed that command. Anyone who takes God's tithe to anyone other than the Levites is being disobedient to God's Word.

There are other tithes in the Bible such as the Festival Tithe and the Tithe for the Poor. It is The Lord's Tithe that churches pattern their teaching after.

Church leaders ignore God's definition of His tithe, and ignore God's ordinances for His tithe. They change the words to fit their pocketbook. This is nothing but manipulation of God's Word. They are false teachers.

The Bible CLEARLY SHOWS that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7.

In Hebrews 7:5 we are told that Levi (the Levites) took the tithes under the law. In Hebrews 7:12 we are told that when the priesthood changes, the law will change. Hebrews 7:18 is telling us that Numbers 18 was disannulled. Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood, and part of that establishing included tithing. When the Levitical priesthood ended (at Calvary, or at least in the year 70 AD when the temple was destroyed), all laws that established that priesthood were canceled. If Numbers 18 wasn't canceled, we would still be under the Levitical priesthood.

Matthew 5:17-18 states Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it.

This is where some education in law is useful. What does fulfill mean? What does abolish mean?

Let me give an example. A legal contract is enforceable under the law. Let’s say you hire a contractor to build a swimming pool in your back yard. Once the contractor has completed the job, and everything in that contract has been completed, the contract has been fulfilled. The contractor’s job is to fulfill the contract, not abolish it. He fulfills it by completing the terms, bringing it to an end.

Consider:

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Galatians 5:18 (KJV) - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV) - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. In other words, until Jesus came and fulfilled the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 (KJV)
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:10-14 (KJV)
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[CGL1023]

Not really gonna debate about the issue of tithing. I've just decided that 10% is
A good amount to give. Only question is whether its based on net or gross? If by a cheerful heart then I'm sure I already have my answer! Just curious as to the norm.

This is one of the most enduring questions on tithing and must have been one of the first.

I would say choose the one that makes sense to you, because ... God gives us the power to get wealth. Deuteronomy 8:18.

 

[amandatea]

The whole spirit of this thread seems to be very begrudging. The point of tithes and offerings is that distribution of wealth is shared fairly amongst God's family. We who have lots of money, provisions, and property usually don't understand how many Christians around the world are forced to live. We give so that they have a chance at nourishment for their bodies, medical attention, shelter and clothing, education, etc.

Let's say that tithing was just an old Testament practice (which I don't agree with, but let's pretend): God still promises that he will always take care of those who trust him. So what is the problem with giving to others? It seems to me to say we don't actually trust him nearly as much as we say we do. It sort of puts perspective on the phrase, "put your money where your mouth is." We should be able to trust in the Lord enough to count on him providing for our needs whether we give away 10% or 90%.

I don't agree with pastors going on and on about tithing : the pastor of the church I went to in childhood, constantly preached about tithing. It shows their real motives when they constantly talk about it. But I still do believe we, as Christians, should freely, voluntarily, give tithes and offerings.

When I first became a Christian, last year, I felt a passion in my heart to help people less fortunate. I told my (now ex) that I wanted to start helping others and give away a bunch of my own possessions to help others. His immediate response was "How come?" and then he went on to tell me that I should just be concerned with taking care of myself. Really? It saddened me that he didn't understand at all how I felt it how much I trust God to take care of me. I definitely can be doing a lot more than I am: this isn't a post to brag about anything. However, for someone else who identifies as a Christian to not even understand compassion just blows my mind.

Malachi 3:10-11 KJV

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[GaryArnold]

So what is the problem with giving to others?

Malachi 3:10-11 KJV
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

I don't see where anyone on this thread has a problem with giving to others.

You, like so many others, like to quote Malachi 3:10-11, which verses by themselves are totally out of context. Start with verse 7. God said they were not following His ORDINANCES. Neither do you or anyone else who tries to tithe today.

Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple storehouse.

The tithing lies just continue and continue and continue. It's a real shame church goers can't get beyond the tithe and get into what the New Testament really teaches about giving.

 

[Aibrean]

The whole spirit of this thread seems to be very begrudging. The point of tithes and offerings is that distribution of wealth is shared fairly amongst God's family. We who have lots of money, provisions, and property usually don't understand how many Christians around the world are forced to live. We give so that they have a chance at nourishment for their bodies, medical attention, shelter and clothing, education, etc.

Let's say that tithing was just an old Testament practice (which I don't agree with, but let's pretend): God still promises that he will always take care of those who trust him. So what is the problem with giving to others? It seems to me to say we don't actually trust him nearly as much as we say we do. It sort of puts perspective on the phrase, "put your money where your mouth is." We should be able to trust in the Lord enough to count on him providing for our needs whether we give away 10% or 90%.

I don't agree with pastors going on and on about tithing : the pastor of the church I went to in childhood, constantly preached about tithing. It shows their real motives when they constantly talk about it. But I still do believe we, as Christians, should freely, voluntarily, give tithes and offerings.

When I first became a Christian, last year, I felt a passion in my heart to help people less fortunate. I told my (now ex) that I wanted to start helping others and give away a bunch of my own possessions to help others. His immediate response was "How come?" and then he went on to tell me that I should just be concerned with taking care of myself. Really? It saddened me that he didn't understand at all how I felt it how much I trust God to take care of me. I definitely can be doing a lot more than I am: this isn't a post to brag about anything. However, for someone else who identifies as a Christian to not even understand compassion just blows my mind.

Malachi 3:10-11 KJV

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

Tithing IS an Old Testament practice by what the definition of a tithe is. The NT doesn't get rid of giving to God. There is no set amount. That is the difference. You give cheerfully and as you are led. Tithing has been replaced with giving.

 

[amandatea]

I don't see where anyone on this thread has a problem with giving to others.

You, like so many others, like to quote Malachi 3:10-11, which verses by themselves are totally out of context. Start with verse 7. God said they were not following His ORDINANCES. Neither do you or anyone else who tries to tithe today.

Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple storehouse.

The tithing lies just continue and continue and continue. It's a real shame church goers can't get beyond the tithe and get into what the New Testament really teaches about giving.

My point in including that wasn't about the tithing. It was the point that, if we are willing to give freely and generously, God will bless us freely and generously.

 

[GaryArnold]

My point in including that wasn't about the tithing. It was the point that, if we are willing to give freely and generously, God will bless us freely and generously.

You used the wrong scripture to make your point. Malachi 3 has nothing to do with giving freely and generously, but there is scripture to support your point.

 

[Sketcher]

If you have to "encourage working up to 10%" then you obviously have no clue as to what the New Testament giving principles are. If you knew what the New Testament giving principles are, you would never believe that 10% is a good baseline for giving.

Are you attempting to argue that the New Testament teaches against giving a certain amount, or are you attempting to argue that I cannot be led by the Spirit to give 10%?

You claim to be such an expert on New Testament giving principles, why don't you comprehensively lay them out, complete with verse citations?

And many who actually do understand the principles are afraid to teach them since it isn't what most people want to hear. They get less flack teaching tithing.

What is going to get a pastor more flak - insisting on 10% or more from everybody who works, or saying "Just give as you feel led"?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I do 10% of of each check (full amount) I get.

 

[GaryArnold]

Are you attempting to argue that the New Testament teaches against giving a certain amount, or are you attempting to argue that I cannot be led by the Spirit to give 10%?

You claim to be such an expert on New Testament giving principles, why don't you comprehensively lay them out, complete with verse citations?

What is going to get a pastor more flak - insisting on 10% or more from everybody who works, or saying "Just give as you feel led"?

Of course one can be led by the Spirit to give 10%. If that is what the Spirit leads one to give, then that is what one should do. But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Biblical tithing.

The subject of this forum is whether tithing is on net or gross. I proved, by scripture, that the scriptures show that tithing came from the net, not the gross. To go into all the scriptures on New Testament giving is beyond this forum. However, I do teach it on my website, along with what the Bible really teaches about tithing.

If someone teaches New Testament giving as "Just give as you feel led," again, they have no clue as to what the New Testament teaches on giving. True, we should give as the Spirit leads, but that is not a principle.

If you want to start a forum on NT giving, fine.

Dr. David Croteau, professor at Liberty University (Baptist) and author of several books on tithing and giving, spells out 19 giving principles taught in the New Testament.

But for now, if you want scriptures, try:
1 Corinthians 16:1-4
2 Corinthians 8:1-5
2 Corinthians 8:10-15 - a principle I stress when teaching giving (the principle of equality)
2 Corinthians 9:6-12
Philippians 4:15-20 - very important principle here


That should be a good starter. ALL of those principles conflict with the teaching of tithing.

Another false doctrine is that the tithe comes first. Actually, the scriptures tell us the tithe was the LAST ONE out of every ten. (Leviticus 27:32) That verse also tells us that the tithe was the tenth one whether it be BAD OR GOOD.

So much false doctrine being taught in the churches today it is sickening to me. That is why so little is being given.

 

[Sketcher]

Of course one can be led by the Spirit to give 10%. If that is what the Spirit leads one to give, then that is what one should do.

Glad you at least acknowledge that.

But for now, if you want scriptures, try:
1 Corinthians 16:1-4
2 Corinthians 8:1-5
2 Corinthians 8:10-15 - a principle I stress when teaching giving (the principle of equality)
2 Corinthians 9:6-12
Philippians 4:15-20 - very important principle here

My church teaches all that. I'm not seeing room for your accusations about my church, or my beliefs since we are acknowledging the same Scriptures.

Another false doctrine is that the tithe comes first. Actually, the scriptures tell us the tithe was the LAST ONE out of every ten. (Leviticus 27:32) That verse also tells us that the tithe was the tenth one whether it be BAD OR GOOD.

The NT offering however, is to come first (1 Cor 16:2).

So much false doctrine being taught in the churches today it is sickening to me. That is why so little is being given.

It would benefit you to truly listen to what other people believe rather than making assumptions and projecting. Then you wouldn't be needlessly sickened. I can understand being sickened where there is truly false doctrine being preached, but needlessly creating more instances of false doctrine in your head where none exist is not good for you. It's against what Jesus taught in Matthew 7:1-5, too.

 

[GaryArnold]

The NT offering however, is to come first (1 Cor 16:2).

1 Cor 16:2 doesn't say or imply that the NT offerings are to come first. It says FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, not the first of your pay.

And do you have any idea what those contributions were to be used for? NOT for salaries. NOT for a building. NOT for utility bills. It was a collection FOR THE SAINTS.

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

Using the above principles, the New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

 

[Sketcher]

1 Cor 16:2 doesn't say or imply that the NT offerings are to come first. It says FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, not the first of your pay.

And do you have any idea what those contributions were to be used for? NOT for salaries. NOT for a building. NOT for utility bills. It was a collection FOR THE SAINTS.

And the church receives the amount given, whether it is to pay its own base operating costs, or to provide the deacons or missionaries abroad on the same day.

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

This isn't about gifts, offerings, or tithes at all. This is the last of three examples whom Timothy was to emulate. A husbandman that laboreth, not a lackadaisical one.

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

Using the above principles, the New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.

We should of course take care of ourselves and our families, not neglecting family needs. I agree that we should give of our excess. However, needs have to be budgeted out, which isn't that hard to do. I don't know of any family who would starve or be underclothed or without clean water or without shelter in this country because they would be giving to the church. I do know of a good many families though, who might have to give up cable or drive a car which isn't quite as flashy. And they don't think they can give for that reason. Giving needs to be a higher priority than lifestyle upgrades. Which is why there needs to be a set baseline for giving in every Christian's budget.

 

[GaryArnold]

We should of course take care of ourselves and our families, not neglecting family needs. I agree that we should give of our excess. However, needs have to be budgeted out, which isn't that hard to do. I don't know of any family who would starve or be underclothed or without clean water or without shelter in this country because they would be giving to the church. I do know of a good many families though, who might have to give up cable or drive a car which isn't quite as flashy. And they don't think they can give for that reason. Giving needs to be a higher priority than lifestyle upgrades. Which is why there needs to be a set baseline for giving in every Christian's budget.

Being that I am a Money & Finance Minister, and deal with this topic 7 days a week, I know of many who are barely making it month to month, no cable tv, run-down small car, etc. who actually need help. There is no baseline for giving "in every Christian's budget." I recently came across a case where a single mother said her children had to go without one meal each week so she would have the 10% to give to the church. She also said she recently had to move because she was behind in her rent. I've seen families attend church services wearing rags, yet they were still giving at offering time where any real Christian Church would have been giving to them, instead.

Yes, most people are poor money managers. I agree. Most people should be giving far more than they do. Most people I come across are what I consider very selfish. But I try to practice what I preach. In order for me to have more to give, I am content with a 20-inch analog tv with a digital tuner. No cable or satellite tv. I use an antenna and get free tv. My computer will be 8 years old next month. My monitor is a 12-inch. I have no laptop. I do have a cell phone, but when I needed a new one, I purchased an old model off eBay. I say all this to make the point that I can afford just about anything I want, but I am content with less as I give away 30% - 50%, and sometimes more, of my income each month, to help those less fortunate than myself. When giving is taught CORRECTLY, more people will be doing the same, or better, than myself. Sometimes I feel I have too much when I see what others have.

Most people I teach NT giving to get upset with me. They would much rather give 10% of their income than apply the NT principles. They want the bigger house, the more expensive car, the big screen tv, the iPod, iPad, iPhone, and any other "i" that comes out. I fully understand the problem. The answer is not tithing, nor a 10% goal. The answer comes from fully understanding what God wants us to do with the money He allows us to have.