Tithing 10% of gross or net?

[strelok0017]

Yes, according to OT it comes from net because it should be 10 percent of what is left, rather than 10 percent before taxes and whatever. Why? Simply because paying 10 percent before taxation would actually make it more than 10 percent. I believe some people couldn't afford it in OT times but the New Testament Law isn't ten percent but what we can give cheerfully.

 

[Bobinator]

Yes, according to OT it comes from net because it should be 10 percent of what is left, rather than 10 percent before taxes and whatever. Why? Simply because paying 10 percent before taxation would actually make it more than 10 percent. I believe some people couldn't afford it in OT times but the New Testament Law isn't ten percent but what we can give cheerfully.

Then I suppose you shouldn't receive any benefit from the government. You shouldn't drive your car on its roads, don't call the cops, don't require labeling on foods you eat, don't call 911 or expect to be rescued by emergency personnel. The list is endless. These are what you're paying for with your taxes, and I don't know anyone in their right mind that does not place a value on this.

 

[Bobinator]

Just out of curiosity would i be right in assuming you don't believe God is working today. After all there have been no prophets for how many years.

Not sure how you came to these conclusions. My post didn't come close to your first assumption. Of course God is moving and working today.

I've met many prophets in my lifetime, including some in my own church that have the prophetic anointing, but without carrying the title. Sounds like you haven't been exposed to these things at all, or simply don't believe it.

 

[strelok0017]

I did not complain against taxes but only said that tithing before taxation would mean that people would have to give a lot more than ten percent. I'm not sure if the Bible says which came first: taxation or tithing. Doesn't matter. Give cheerfully and don't let your left hand know what the right hand is doing.

 

[Aibrean]

The Bible doesn't use tithing in the NT.

 

[GaryArnold]

I'm not sure if the Bible says which came first: taxation or tithing.

Since taxes were paid with money, and the tithe came from God's increase of crops and animals and not from man's income or earnings, which came first doesn't matter. Money was NEVER used as a tithe according to the scriptures.

 

[TheDag]

Not sure how you came to these conclusions. My post didn't come close to your first assumption. Of course God is moving and working today.

I've met many prophets in my lifetime, including some in my own church that have the prophetic anointing, but without carrying the title. Sounds like you haven't been exposed to these things at all, or simply don't believe it.

I believe it but guess I am wondering why you think nobody had prophetic words in that 400 years. That view forms a large part of my conclusion. It is also interesting that you would assume a prophetic word was not for the people at the time it was given but only start in the new covenant.

I will say I have not heard a single prophetic word in my entire life. What is often called prophetic words do not follow the pattern of prophetic words throughout the bible. I believe true prophetic words would follow the same pattern. So most of the time when there is a "prophetic" word it is more a word of knowledge not prophecy.

 

[Mediaeval]

Then I suppose you shouldn't receive any benefit from the government.

Not to get too off topic but as long as the government robs me, I have no misgivings about using its services.

 

[achristian2]

I believe its gross.

God don't need our money. He can make $ fall from heaven. Tithing is actually God's way of helping us to learn to trust Him, learning obedience and self-control among other things. While its true that tithing 10% was only mention in the old testament, bear in mind also that when we start being calculative with God, then don't expect much blessings from him on that part that we are calculative on. Doesn't the bible mention about a cheerful giver.

There was a Christian woman in China with kids and mother-in-law to look after (while her husband was in prison for his faith). $ was very hard to come by although she worked very hard, yet she tithe 10% of her gross salary. After prayers one day, when she was down to her last penny and that there was no $ to buy food left, after prayers, there was a knock at the door. There stood somebody with 2 bags of $. The bigger bag was for her to give to others while the smaller bag was for her. She always tithe regardless of whether there was enough money for the family and God ensured time and time again that when there was not enough $ from her earnings, there would always be $ provided by others to her.

There are similar cases like this all over the place. The thing is by giving, we may not be able to eat more delicious food, buy that dress and so on, but there are plenty of blessings that God will provide for us and I believe a joy and a trust in the Lord himself. I'm not saying that everyone can be as strong as that woman, but we need to be aware not to 'rob' God and to give more cheerfully and when we are unwilling or calculative in doing so, to pray to God for a willing heart to do just that.

God wants to see whether you will put $ over him, whether you are good stewards of your money, also to learn to trust Him when money is tight etc etc.

Hope this helps.

PS: I just need to share another story.
There was this pastor that God had several times asked him to give all his $ away and he did this--even emptying his kids and wife's account. There was a time that he saw a good offer for a set of 'bible/Christian' books and it cost $540. He did not have the $ to buy it and he prayed to God that if it was meant for him to have it that exactly $540 would be given to him. Well, there came a knock on the door and $ was given but it was only $500. He did not even have the $40 to pay for the shortfall, so he decided to give all the $ to missions. Then came another knock and the person asked whether he needed $. The pastor said he didn't need $, in fact he was going to donate $. The person at the door said that he felt that he had to give $ to the pastor and gave him an envelope containing $100. The pastor now had $600, and not the exact $540. He prayed and the answer from God was haven't you heard about tithing. Well, guess what--10% of $600 was $60. So the remaining was $540, the exact amount to buy the books. The pastor is Edmund Chan.

 

[GaryArnold]

@ achristian2 - stories are nice, but where is the scripture to back it up? I gave scriptures PROVING that the scriptures teach tithing on NET, not gross. Your words means nothing without scripture to back them up.

 

[Bobinator]

Yes, according to OT it comes from net because it should be 10 percent of what is left, rather than 10 percent before taxes and whatever. Why? Simply because paying 10 percent before taxation would actually make it more than 10 percent. I believe some people couldn't afford it in OT times but the New Testament Law isn't ten percent but what we can give cheerfully.

I will have to disagree. Tithes to a 501c3 non-profit entity, as most churches are, are tax exempt. Therefore, 10% doesn't not equate to more than 10%. There's also a thing called tax returns, in which a taxpayer gets reimbursed for paying too much.

In the New Testament, it says "God loves a cheerful giver." It didn't say your giving was based on the state of your cheerfulness. By golly, no wonder the church is spiritually bankrupt. If you're a grump, are you going to ask the church then for money?

Tithing requires faith and obedience. To all- search your hearts. It's okay to admit you're not exactly sure of the right answer. But a lot of posts on this thread indicate that positions are being taken based on fear and emotions. God's kingdom operates on the Law of Faith, and is not subject to a democratic vote. There's nothing that requires faith on a more regular basis than paying tithes and offerings. I think of it in terms of "putting your money where your mouth is." You say you're a Christian and have faith? Then you have every opportunity to prove it.

 

[Bobinator]

Not to get too off topic but as long as the government robs me, I have no misgivings about using its services.

So... I guess a theft or perceived one is justified by committing another theft. Except, you're robbing God. Interesting set of principles you got there.

 

[GaryArnold]

Tithing requires faith and obedience. To all- search your hearts. It's okay to admit you're not exactly sure of the right answer. But a lot of posts on this thread indicate that positions are being taken based on fear and emotions. God's kingdom operates on the Law of Faith, and is not subject to a democratic vote. There's nothing that requires faith on a more regular basis than paying tithes and offerings. I think of it in terms of "putting your money where your mouth is." You say you're a Christian and have faith? Then you have every opportunity to prove it.

A lot of posts on this thread indicate that positions are being taken based on false teaching rather than the scriptures.

There is no such thing as Christian tithing. That is not scriptural. Tithing ended at the cross per Hebrews 7:5,12,18.

The New Testament calls for a higher standard. We are to pray and seek the Spirit. Being Spirit led instead of using out-dated Old Testament standards that ended at the cross, I find myself giving between 30% and 50% of my income on a consistent basis.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

1 - According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe (Numbers 18).
2 - As priests, all born-again believers are equal. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe.
3 - To try and “tithe” today is denying that you are a part of a Royal Priesthood.

Are you an Old Testament Jew or a New Testament born-again believer?

 

[GaryArnold]

ONE OF THE WORST CRIMES OF ALL TIME:
1 - It is done by pastors who are trusted to be honest and right, and done in the name of Jesus.
2 - It is legal only because the government (in the US) can't interfere with religious beliefs, and the pastor only need claim he is teaching his beliefs.
3 - It has spread world-wide and this crime has more victims than any other that I know of.
4 - Those who have been scammed almost always take sides with the scammer.
5 - It's a crime where the victim thinks he/she is the beneficiary, not the victim.
6 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim falls for the same scam every week, week after week, month after month, year after year, and never even questions the scammer.
7 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers will yell AMEN!
8 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that most church goers believe their pastor is the best pastor around. Their pastor really knows the truth. They trust and believe everything he says.
9 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victims convince others to join in and be a victim like they are, all the time thinking they are the beneficiary.
10 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed that the victim thinks they are robbing God if they don't comply with the scam.
11 - The crime is so carefully crafted and executed it is very difficult to convince the victim that they have been a victim.

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

 

[Knee V]

Whatever you're willing to do. It's better to cheerfully give a little than to begrudgingly give a lot. It's not about following a rule; it's about learning to love Christ more.

 

[Sketcher]

I would go by 10% of the gross if you are able to do so cheerfully. If you are not able to do so cheerfully, be it for financial or other reasons, work up to that as a goal.

 

[Sketcher]

The crime? Pastors teaching that God requires Christians to tithe to the church. With tithing, the victim is so ignorant of the truth, they have no clue they've been a victim. And if and when the tithing scam victims realize they are victims, there is really nothing they can do about it. The scammer keeps the money.

Why do you think that every pastor who teaches that tithing is required is a scammer?

 

[GaryArnold]

#1 - I would go by 10% of the gross if you are able to do so cheerfully. If you are not able to do so cheerfully, be it for financial or other reasons, work up to that as a goal.

#2 - Why do you think that every pastor who teaches that tithing is required is a scammer?

Seems you miss what the New Testament teaches about giving. To make 10% a goal to work up to merely shows lack of understanding the scriptures.

The goal is to give as much as you can, whether that be 1%, 10%, 50%, or more. Why place a 10% limit on a goal? But the goal should come from being Spirit led. If you are Spirit led in your giving, you will be giving the correct amount.

Every pastor who teaches that tithing is required is a scammer whether they mean to be or not. Many were victims of the scam and know no better and wind up teaching the same false doctrine they were taught. Whether one purposely scams or does it out of pure ignorance of the scriptures, the result is teaching false doctrine.

 

[Johnnz]

Tithing was only mandated under the Mosaic law, nowhere else.

There is no evidence Abraham tithed as a practice. He gave a tribute to a local digntary out of the spoils of battle, a custom at that time, but there is never indication he did so at any other time.

John
NZ

 

[Sketcher]

Seems you miss what the New Testament teaches about giving. To make 10% a goal to work up to merely shows lack of understanding the scriptures.

The goal is to give as much as you can, whether that be 1%, 10%, 50%, or more. Why place a 10% limit on a goal? But the goal should come from being Spirit led. If you are Spirit led in your giving, you will be giving the correct amount.

In the most prosperous country in the world, where most people don't even give 5% regardless of whether they are rich or poor, 10% on the gross definitely ought to be a goal. Gotta give 10% before you can give more than that. However, an unfortunate number of middle class, upper-middle class, and upper class Christians use what you are teaching as an excuse to give less, while many Christians in the third world will give you the shirts off their backs (well over 10%). I believe we should aspire to give more, not less.

Every pastor who teaches that tithing is required is a scammer whether they mean to be or not. Many were victims of the scam and know no better and wind up teaching the same false doctrine they were taught. Whether one purposely scams or does it out of pure ignorance of the scriptures, the result is teaching false doctrine.

Depends on what you mean by "required." "No less than 10% or you're going to Hell" would certainly be a grave error, and likely evidence of a scam. However, missionaries abroad and faith-based charities at home depend on our giving. If all who were financially able to give 10% or more cheerfully did so, many more of the needs of the community, both local and abroad, would be met. I don't believe in buying pastors Cadillacs and mansions. I do believe in helping widows and orphans in their distress. Faithful tithing helps the latter happen. What matters is the hearts of those in the church - both those allocating the funds and those contributing to them.