Tithes .. the systems way to wrangle money out of your pocket by emotional manipulations

[Alithis]

now lets make one thing clear
give -give and give as you feel to in your heart moved by a need seen, a compassion felt ,the speaking of the holy Spirit to your heart .. give and give and don't stop giving as you are able . we are not our own we are purchased with great price we belong to god, everything we have is his and everything he has -is ours in Christ .

but the law of tithe ..is just that .law under a covenant we are not under .

what few realize is that under the new testament .. not one place do we see the "law of the tithe " mentioned ,taught ,imposed .. except for ... oh wait , nope, still NO WHERE .

so why is it taught? and why is it imposed? and where it is not imposed why is it strongly emotionally suggested ?
for one reason - man made need to fund man made programs that further increase costs further fueling the need to promote this "law" and impose it on people.
we know the church is not a building ,we know the temple is not a building we know we are the living temple ..so why do we insist on ignoring the living temple and building ourselves -at HUGE cost $$-,shrines of worship .the lord JESUS never told us to do it . so who did .. is there another lord at work? -not in my life .

free yourselves from this false hood .. instead of tithing . start praying lord what would you like me to give where do YOU desire me to give it ,to whom ..
stop pouring it into some man made mortgage payment -let the building of brick and concrete and glass fall and the living temple of God rise to the work of the Gospel . .

 

[pdudgeon]

now lets make one thing clear
give -give and give as you feel to in your heart moved by a need seen, a compassion felt ,the speaking of the holy Spirit to your heart .. give and give and don't stop giving as you are able . we are not our own we are purchased with great price we belong to god, everything we have is his and everything he has -is ours in Christ .

but the law of tithe ..is just that .law under a covenant we are not under .

what few realize is that under the new testament .. not one place do we see the "law of the tithe " mentioned ,taught ,imposed .. except for ... oh wait , nope, still NO WHERE .

so why is it taught? and why is it imposed? and where it is not imposed why is it strongly emotionally suggested ?
for one reason - man made need to fund man made programs that further increase costs further fueling the need to promote this "law" and impose it on people.
we know the church is not a building ,we know the temple is not a building we know we are the living temple ..so why do we insist on ignoring the living temple and building ourselves -at HUGE cost $$-,shrines of worship .the lord JESUS never told us to do it . so who did .. is there another lord at work? -not in my life .

free yourselves from this false hood .. instead of tithing . start praying lord what would you like me to give where do YOU desire me to give it ,to whom ..
stop pouring it into some man made mortgage payment -let the building of brick and concrete and glass fall and the living temple of God rise to the work of the Gospel . .

i think the point here is not how much a person has to give but how greatful they are, how happy they are to give, and how well they listen.

there is no way on Earth that we could ever repay God for all that He has given us, or repay Christ for the sacrifice of His life for us, nor repay the Holy Spirit for the knowledge and wisdom and direction that He provides to us.

the tithe is there as a starting point.
think of it as a manufacturer's suggested retail price.
and the manufacturer is God.

What i don't understand is why there are some people who have such a difficult time giving up that 10%. God let's us keep 90%, which is generous!

Instead they would rather give God a tip for "services rendered".
what an insult.

 

[Alithis]

i think the point here is not how much a person has to give but how greatful they are, how happy they are to give, and how well they listen.

there is no way on Earth that we could ever repay God for all that He has given us, or repay Christ for the sacrifice of His life for us, nor repay the Holy Spirit for the knowledge and wisdom and direction that He provides to us.

the tithe is there as a starting point.
think of it as a manufacturer's suggested retail price.
and the manufacturer is God.

What i don't understand is why there are some people who have such a difficult time giving up that 10%. God let's us keep 90%, which is generous!

Instead they would rather give God a tip for "services rendered".
what an insult.

where is the scriptural basis for giving 10% as taught .. i mean when you think about ti everything you just said is based on what you've been taught about it not what the bible states under the new covenant .

 

[pdudgeon]

where is the scriptural basis for giving 10% as taught .. i mean when you think about ti everything you just said is based on what you've been taught about it not what the bible states under the new covenant .

would you rather go back to the escalating sacrifices in Genesis?
the point is Jesus, (speaking in the NT) divided paying to the Church and paying taxes to Rome.
He could do that because each had it's own coinage.
paying to the church was required because the Levites were given no land on which to raise their crops or to earn their living. instead their job was to serve in the Temple.
so in order for the Levites to eat it was necessary that their living be furnished to them instead of them earning it by the sweat of their brow like the rest of God's people. that's why there was a temple tax.

today we only have the government coinage, so it has to be used for both.
so today if your church has a minister who's only job is serving the church, then it is still necessary to keep the man alive so he can minister.
and to do that, the church must provide a decent living, food, clothing, housing, and transportation for him; all the things that otherwise he would be providing for himself through a paying job.

This is why churches have budgets and why they let their members know how much it would cost each family in the church per week in order to have a living, healthy pastor when they need one.

that's one way to handle things. It's not necessarily fair, because a family of six with two breadwinners pays the same amount as a poor widdow on social security.

on the other hand there is the tithe.
it is fair because while everyone pays the same percentage, that percentage is based upon their income and not on how many families the church has.
thus the church income grows along with it's membership.

and lastly we have the 'pass the plate' method,
where the plate goes round and people put in what they want to.
this one is popular with the "It's my money" crowd.
hence, this method of financing a church is the shakiest of them all, because the flock is perenially just a hop skip and jump away from poverty themselves.
It's almost impossible to sustain much less grow a church using this method of financial management.
not only that but the whole mess becomes a popularity contest.

Like the pastor's sermon? give him a $10.00 this week.
or sitting in your pew about ready to explode? no money going out of your pocket this week!
far too many people 'finance' their church like this ^^^.

 

[Jim Langston]

Okay, first what does the bible say about tithes and offerings? I believe one of the best places is Malachi, the last book of the old testament. Here God is talking about tithing. Malachi 3 is very pertinent:

Malachi 3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

You should note that God says the reason for the tithes is so "that there may be meat in mine house".

Haggai 2 speaks a bit about the money in the church:

Haggai 2:
7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. 8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

Now we see that the money that goes to the church is Gods.

I once asked my mom about tithing, I don't remember the question I asked her, but I remember her reply, she said "when I tithe I don't get any more money, things just cost me less." I wasn't quite sure what she meant. One time I went to buy a leather jacket, I didn't look at the prices I just picked out the nicest jacket that I wanted. When I went to pay for it I found it was the cheapest jacket in the store. Another time, years later, I went to buy a leather jacket, same thing, wound up being the cheapest jacket in the store. This goes alone with Malachi where God says: "and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." I always have everything I need. Even if I don't have the money to buy it, God makes it so that I get it cheap or given to me or however God wants to do it.

If you are complaining about tithes and offerings the best I can suggest to you is don't give it. It will do you no good to give a tithe and offering grumbling, it won't benefit you in the least. Not only does God love a cheerful giver (as seen in 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”) but god hates a giver who grumbles (I can't find the reference right now, but it was when God told the Jews to not bother to tithe and offer because they were doing it with a grumbling heart and it irritated Him).

The original reason for the tithes was so that the priesthood could live off of them as they did God's word, the tribe of Levi, which God did not give an inheritance but they lived off the tithes and offerings (some of them). That is the same reason we give in church, to pay the pastor and the staff, to pay the taxes on the building, to keep the lights and heating on, etc...

Another reason for tithing was so that the poor could eat. Deuteronomy 26 "12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;"

So, if your pastor and staff is well paid, for is not a workman worthy of his hire? Is the house of God in good repair? Does your church have enough to supply the homeless and poor that need it? Is there food in God's house? If not, I do not believe God is very happy with the members.

In conclusion: We are not required to give 10% since we are not under the Mosaic law. We need to give what each man has desired in his heart to give. If you give to God, he will fill your storehouses. If you do not, learn from what God did to the isrealites when his house was in disrepair.

Haggai 1
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. 6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

Just as God can make things cheaper, He can make them more expensive.

It is tricky, however. If you give with the intention of being blessed and no other reason then you are not giving with a glad heart. The first time I started tithing it was with an attitude of okay God, here's your money. You better take care of me. All my money went into a bag with holes. I stopped tithing for a few years. Then I decided I didn't care if God blessed me or not, I would tithe because I wanted too. And everything was cheap. At one time I held God up to the promise in Malachi and it was so strange. For three months straight the money I gave God in tithes someone gave right back to me out of the blue, the same amount.

Giving to God is something personal to each Christian and their relationship with God. You can be blessed greatly from learning how to cheerfully give to support God's work, and you can be cursed for giving with a grumbling heart. If you do not give at all God will let you take care of your own finances. But take heed:

Ecclesiastes 2
26(a) For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God...

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

So, what I get from this is that if I work to please God not only will he make it so that things work out for me, but the ones who don't please God will be gathering riches to give to me.

If you think of giving to the house of God or to the poor as a chore, you'll have no reward. If you do it will the intent to please God, then you'll lay up not only riches in heaven but here on earth too.

God is a living God. He has promises He's laid out in the bible and he stands by them. You can think of the bible as just a book some people wrote to be good and the preacher just wants to make money, or you can realize that the bible is the word of the living God and we are supposed to try to use it to make us grow in God in all ways.

I've tested God in Malachi as He asked me to and have been blessed greatly by it. But it took quite a while to get the correct heart.

Matthew 25 is good to learn from. The King here is Jesus.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Realize your pastor, who makes a living off of the offerings, is also our brethren.

I am not talking about those TV evangelists who make a 10 million dollar salary. For everyone who does the will of God there is the one who will abuse it. God is their judge, however, not us.

 

[Alithis]

would you rather go back to the escalating sacrifices in Genesis?
the point is Jesus, (speaking in the NT) divided paying to the Church and paying taxes to Rome.
He could do that because each had it's own coinage.
paying to the church was required because the Levites were given no land on which to raise their crops or to earn their living. instead their job was to serve in the Temple.
so in order for the Levites to eat it was necessary that their living be furnished to them instead of them earning it by the sweat of their brow like the rest of God's people. that's why there was a temple tax.

today we only have the government coinage, so it has to be used for both.
so today if your church has a minister who's only job is serving the church, then it is still necessary to keep the man alive so he can minister.
and to do that, the church must provide a decent living, food, clothing, housing, and transportation for him; all the things that otherwise he would be providing for himself through a paying job.

This is why churches have budgets and why they let their members know how much it would cost each family in the church per week in order to have a living, healthy pastor when they need one.

that's one way to handle things. It's not necessarily fair, because a family of six with two breadwinners pays the same amount as a poor widdow on social security.

on the other hand there is the tithe.
it is fair because while everyone pays the same percentage, that percentage is based upon their income and not on how many families the church has.
thus the church income grows along with it's membership.

and lastly we have the 'pass the plate' method,
where the plate goes round and people put in what they want to.
this one is popular with the "It's my money" crowd.
hence, this method of financing a church is the shakiest of them all, because the flock is perenially just a hop skip and jump away from poverty themselves.
It's almost impossible to sustain much less grow a church using this method of financial management.

yes umm again.. where is the scriptural basis for "any' of this ?
the church is not the man made Sunday club requiring an 'income " ..it consists of all those in whom the holy Spirit dwells . not a Sunday club and building . so remove that and you remove the man made "demand " for money .
the tithe is "law '

how is it every denomination expect the 7th day .. will tell you eagerly 'you are NOT under the law .. then some time in their Sunday club meeting ,they will then promote the LAW of the tithe . the contradiction is extreme . and not supported ANYWHERE in the new testament . i'm not speaking of man made traditions i'm asking where is the "Scriptural basis for it under the new covenant ' .there is none . its man made imposition to gain finance which god has said IF we seek his kingdom first ..(not our little denominational kingdom" but HIS kingdom he will give us all we need to do so .

as for the its my money crowd -i dealt with that in the OP ..our life belongs to god we are purchased at great price "EVERYTHING we have is already Gods and all he has is already ours in Christ Jesus .

 

[Alithis]

Okay, first what does the bible say about tithes and offerings? I believe one of the best places is Malachi, the last book of the old testament. Here God is talking about tithing. Malachi 3 is very pertinent:

Malachi 3:
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

You should note that God says the reason for the tithes is so "that there may be meat in mine house".

Haggai 2 speaks a bit about the money in the church:

Haggai 2:
7 And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. 8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

Now we see that the money that goes to the church is Gods.

I once asked my mom about tithing, I don't remember the question I asked her, but I remember her reply, she said "when I tithe I don't get any more money, things just cost me less." I wasn't quite sure what she meant. One time I went to buy a leather jacket, I didn't look at the prices I just picked out the nicest jacket that I wanted. When I went to pay for it I found it was the cheapest jacket in the store. Another time, years later, I went to buy a leather jacket, same thing, wound up being the cheapest jacket in the store. This goes alone with Malachi where God says: "and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." I always have everything I need. Even if I don't have the money to buy it, God makes it so that I get it cheap or given to me or however God wants to do it.

If you are complaining about tithes and offerings the best I can suggest to you is don't give it. It will do you no good to give a tithe and offering grumbling, it won't benefit you in the least. Not only does God love a cheerful giver (as seen in 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”) but god hates a giver who grumbles (I can't find the reference right now, but it was when God told the Jews to not bother to tithe and offer because they were doing it with a grumbling heart and it irritated Him).

The original reason for the tithes was so that the priesthood could live off of them as they did God's word, the tribe of Levi, which God did not give an inheritance but they lived off the tithes and offerings (some of them). That is the same reason we give in church, to pay the pastor and the staff, to pay the taxes on the building, to keep the lights and heating on, etc...

Another reason for tithing was so that the poor could eat. Deuteronomy 26 "12 When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;"

So, if your pastor and staff is well paid, for is not a workman worthy of his hire? Is the house of God in good repair? Does your church have enough to supply the homeless and poor that need it? Is there food in God's house? If not, I do not believe God is very happy with the members.

In conclusion: We are not required to give 10% since we are not under the Mosaic law. We need to give what each man has desired in his heart to give. If you give to God, he will fill your storehouses. If you do not, learn from what God did to the isrealites when his house was in disrepair.

Haggai 1
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. 6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes.

Just as God can make things cheaper, He can make them more expensive.

It is tricky, however. If you give with the intention of being blessed and no other reason then you are not giving with a glad heart. The first time I started tithing it was with an attitude of okay God, here's your money. You better take care of me. All my money went into a bag with holes. I stopped tithing for a few years. Then I decided I didn't care if God blessed me or not, I would tithe because I wanted too. And everything was cheap. At one time I held God up to the promise in Malachi and it was so strange. For three months straight the money I gave God in tithes someone gave right back to me out of the blue, the same amount.

Giving to God is something personal to each Christian and their relationship with God. You can be blessed greatly from learning how to cheerfully give to support God's work, and you can be cursed for giving with a grumbling heart. If you do not give at all God will let you take care of your own finances. But take heed:

Ecclesiastes 2
26(a) For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God...

Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

So, what I get from this is that if I work to please God not only will he make it so that things work out for me, but the ones who don't please God will be gathering riches to give to me.

If you think of giving to the house of God or to the poor as a chore, you'll have no reward. If you do it will the intent to please God, then you'll lay up not only riches in heaven but here on earth too.

God is a living God. He has promises He's laid out in the bible and he stands by them. You can think of the bible as just a book some people wrote to be good and the preacher just wants to make money, or you can realize that the bible is the word of the living God and we are supposed to try to use it to make us grow in God in all ways.

I've tested God in Malachi as He asked me to and have been blessed greatly by it. But it took quite a while to get the correct heart.

Matthew 25 is good to learn from. The King here is Jesus.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Realize your pastor, who makes a living off of the offerings, is also our brethren.

I am not talking about those TV evangelists who make a 10 million dollar salary. For everyone who does the will of God there is the one who will abuse it. God is their judge, however, not us.

the principles of sowing and reaping are not canceled out by this particular topic .if you sow you will reap from what you sow . this is why your mum experienced what she did . it remains valid.

but this does not remove the fact that neither Jesus nor the apostles in their letters EVER taught nor promoted tithing ...malachi is written to Israel under the covenant they were in ..gods hours at that time was a physical building .it is no longer a physical building and we are not under the covenant of the law by circumcision of the flesh . if you are going to say ..you Must tithe because it says so in Malachi then you have to say you must sacrifice bull and goats because it says so in Deuteronomy
-you cant pick out one point that is financially beneficial and then not apply the same rule to all scripture it is a contradiction -it is a falsehood a fraudulent presentation to do that .its imposed by those who create the need for money by building things god never told us to build .thats "their vision" their goals ", their dreams .. not Gods . his house is a living temple that cant be built by mens hands .

 

[Kenny'sID]

“Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”) but god hates a giver who grumbles (I can't find the reference right now, but it was when God told the Jews to not bother to tithe and offer because they were doing it with a grumbling heart and it irritated Him).

Then you agree about the 10%, and since "tenth" is from whence the term Tithe is derived, you agree tithing is not necessary? Yet you post we rob God if we don't tithe? Just saying, you are kind of all over the place here.

Also there was nothing in the OP that indicated he wasn't cheerful about giving, or didn't want to.

 

[Jim Langston]

the principles of sowing and reaping are not canceled out by this particular topic .if you sow you will reap from what you sow . this is why your mum experienced what she did . it remains valid.

but this does not remove the fact that neither Jesus nor the apostles in their letters EVER taught nor promoted tithing ...malachi is written to Israel under the covenant they were in ..gods hours at that time was a physical building .it is no longer a physical building and we are not under the covenant of the law by circumcision of the flesh . if you are going to say ..you Must tithe because it says so in Malachi then you have to say you must sacrifice bull and goats because it says so in Deuteronomy
-you cant pick out one point that is financially beneficial and then not apply the same rule to all scripture it is a contradiction -it is a falsehood a fraudulent presentation to do that .its imposed by those who create the need for money by building things god never told us to build .thats "their vision" their goals ", their dreams .. not Gods . his house is a living temple that cant be built by mens hands .

As I quoted the new testament in my post:
2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

I will agree that this is not 10%. Realize that the 10% number comes from the fact that while the Levi's were 1/12th of the Isrealites they were the smallest. they were probably around 1/10th the entire population or thereabouts. So if 11 tribes give 10% each then the Levis makes about just the same as everyone else. (My math is off here I know but I'm sure God's math is spot on)

Why I think we need to use the 10% rule in our churches today is to make up for those people that don't give. Also, we have to pay for the building, lights, electricity, etc... something the Levis didn't have quite as much of. Which is why I mentioned if the Church is in good repair, the Pastor and staff make a decent salary etc... should be the judge. Although if everyone did give 10% it would give the opportunity for the church to grow, give to the poor, help the homeless, etc... This should be done by the individuals of the church also, didn't Job give 10% to church and 10% to the poor 3 out of 4 years?

You are correct, though, that the 10% figure is left out of the new testament with the exception of that one church where everyone agreed to sell their things and give 10% to the church. Although a husband and wife said they gave 10% but in actuality gave less. They died not because they didn't give 10% but because they lied about it. They were told they were free to give or not as those chose, but once they chose they robed God by holding back and lying about it.

I, personally, give 10% because I feel if God felt it was right to make a law about it, how could I decide to give less and feel I was doing what I should? Just because we're not under the law doesn't mean we're not supposed to love God with all our hearts, all our minds, all our souls and love our neighbors as ourselves. This is, indeed, how Jesus said to get to heaven. I feel that giving 10% to church falls into this perfectly. You may feel otherwise, but like I said in my previous reply, tithes and offerings are personal between the individual and God.

Edit: Jesus did indeed say not to neglect tithing in Mathew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.”

"without neglecting the others" being tithing. There are probably other places too but you can find them if you wished to.

Edit edit: Although it does seem Jesus was much more concerned about giving to the poor than the church.

 

[Greg J.]

Is there a Scriptural basis for thinking tithing brings no more blessing from God than not tithing? Tithe if you want to be blessed. Even if it isn't in your heart to give, God will honor it ("test me in this" Malachi 3:10).

Good shepherds will be telling their sheep to tithe so they will receive blessing from God.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Edit: Jesus did indeed say not to neglect tithing in Mathew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.”

That would more than suggest the 10% is in effect and make null the “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”

That is unless the writer of whatever bible wrongly chose the term tithe for what Christ said (or maybe he did not.

I think I'll not take a stance until this is figured out.

 

[Greg J.]

This discussion (and many others about Scripture and God) would be better off if people were more clear than using words like "have to" (tithe), "should," or "must." Anything we have a choice in we don't have to do. "Should" is ambiguous, and "must" implies something negative will happen if not done, but without a person stating what he believes will happen, "must" is meaningless.

 

[Jim Langston]

Then you agree about the 10%, and since "tenth" is from whence the term Tithe is derived, you agree tithing is not necessary? Yet you post we rob God if we don't tithe? Just saying, you are kind of all over the place here.

Also there was nothing in the OP that indicated he wasn't cheerful about giving, or didn't want to.

RE: Wasn't cheerful about giving: I mentioned that if he didn't want to give to God he shouldn't because he wouldn't get anything out of it.

RE: Define "not necessary". I feel it is necessary as I am to love god with all my heart, all my mind and all my soul. God felt in the Mosaic law that 10% wasn't too much to give. How can I love God with all my heart yet not do as He feels is right?

My post was all over the place because I was using the old testament to show the reasons for the tithe in the first place, it's purpose, it's benefits, it's promises. Jesus did mention that the Pharisees should not neglect tithing. While it is true we are not under the law of Moses we are still required to love god and our neighbor as ourselves. Can you say not giving to support God's ministry is loving God or the people who work in the church?

 

[Kenny'sID]

RE: Define "not necessary".

Same as the dictionary would define it, or not required.

I use the 10% as a starting point too.

Can you say not giving to support God's ministry is loving God or the people who work in the church?

I would never even imply that.

 

[pdudgeon]

yes umm again.. where is the scriptural basis for "any' of this ?
the church is not the man made Sunday club requiring an 'income " ..it consists of all those in whom the holy Spirit dwells . not a Sunday club and building . so remove that and you remove the man made "demand " for money .
the tithe is "law '

how is it every denomination expect the 7th day .. will tell you eagerly 'you are NOT under the law .. then some time in their Sunday club meeting ,they will then promote the LAW of the tithe . the contradiction is extreme . and not supported ANYWHERE in the new testament . i'm not speaking of man made traditions i'm asking where is the "Scriptural basis for it under the new covenant ' .there is none . its man made imposition to gain finance which god has said IF we seek his kingdom first ..(not our little denominational kingdom" but HIS kingdom he will give us all we need to do so .

as for the its my money crowd -i dealt with that in the OP ..our life belongs to god we are purchased at great price "EVERYTHING we have is already Gods and all he has is already ours in Christ Jesus .

you just might want to glance at the book of Nehemiah some time to see what happens when God's people forget God.
chapter 9, verse 17 would be a good place to start.
There's much more going on these days than just concern over the tithe.

 

[Jim Langston]

Same as the dictionary would define it, or not required.

The real question was: not required for what. Required for salvation? No. Required to please God? Yes. Required to be blessed? If you do it correctly. Required to have joy? It helps. Nothing is required of us, not even following the commandments, loving God, loving our neighbors as ourselves. Of course that means we'll be going to hell, but it's not required.

 

[Kenny'sID]

The real question was: not required for what. Required for salvation? No. Required to please God? Yes. Required to be blessed? If you do it correctly. Required to have joy? It helps. Nothing is required of us, not even following the commandments, loving God, loving our neighbors as ourselves. Of course that means we'll be going to hell, but it's not required.

I certainly differ with your view nothing is required of us for salvation, but we won't get into that.

 

[pdudgeon]

the principles of sowing and reaping are not canceled out by this particular topic .if you sow you will reap from what you sow . this is why your mum experienced what she did . it remains valid.

but this does not remove the fact that neither Jesus nor the apostles in their letters EVER taught nor promoted tithing ...malachi is written to Israel under the covenant they were in ..gods hours at that time was a physical building .it is no longer a physical building and we are not under the covenant of the law by circumcision of the flesh . if you are going to say ..you Must tithe because it says so in Malachi then you have to say you must sacrifice bull and goats because it says so in Deuteronomy
-you cant pick out one point that is financially beneficial and then not apply the same rule to all scripture it is a contradiction -it is a falsehood a fraudulent presentation to do that .its imposed by those who create the need for money by building things god never told us to build .thats "their vision" their goals ", their dreams .. not Gods . his house is a living temple that cant be built by mens hands .

you forgot something. Matthew 17:24-27
when the temple elders came to Peter and asked him if he and Jesus had paid their temple tax, what did Jesus say? Peter told the elders that of course they paid, and then went to ask Jesus about it.
Jesus essentially told Peter to go fish. so Peter did just that, caught a big fish, and out of the fish's mouth came the coin to pay the tax.
so yes, even in the NT Jesus upheld the idea and practice of the OT.
what He added to it was grace as opposed to the law.
which is where we get the story of the Good Samaritan from.

the other thing that you forgot was that Jesus' disciples also met together in the temple, and then in houses when they were thrown out of the temple. but the physical temple has always been God's house.
the figurative temple is the human body.

 

[Jim Langston]

I certainly differ with your view nothing is required of us for salvation, but we won't get into that.

Er, I did not say nothing is required for us for salvation. Jesus said Love god with all your heart, all your minds and all your souls and love your neighbor as yourself which is keeping the 10 commandments also.

That was my point, you said "not required" but you didn't say required for what. We are not required to accept Jesus. That means we are not saved and are going to hell. I am not saying it is not required for salvation, it is just not required to exist. That was kinda my point. Usually when you say something is required or not required you should specify required for what.

 

[pdudgeon]

Then you agree about the 10%, and since "tenth" is from whence the term Tithe is derived, you agree tithing is not necessary? Yet you post we rob God if we don't tithe? Just saying, you are kind of all over the place here.

Also there was nothing in the OP that indicated he wasn't cheerful about giving, or didn't want to.

giving to God is necessary both for the benefit of the priest/minister who is dependent upon it in order to survive, and also to show gratitude and respect to God.

the tithe amount is suggested as a starting point, because man by his very nature is greedy and selfish. as such he would give the bare minimum, and give that with great reluctance.
i have quite honestly heard men complain mightily about giving 'their money' to God, not realizing that it is God who enables them to find work and earn that money that they reluctantly part with.
these are the same people that begrudge church buildings, etc. yet themselves live in nice homes filled with lots of stuff.