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Time to repent and apologise for atrocities committed in the past?

Carl Emerson

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I am puzzled by the 'ecumenical' movement that hopes to bring unity to the Body of Christ.

There seems to be lots of inclusive dialogue yet little apology for the extreme evils of the past.

My wife was in France a couple of years ago and visited a stone tower where a protestant believer was imprisoned for 36 years for simply attending a protestant church meeting.

Marie Durand - Wikipedia

Evils were committed on all sides no doubt.

Could an international meeting be called to allow repentance to be expressed and forgiveness to be offered as our faith seems to not have attended to shameful and evil acts in history.

I could be out of touch - has this already been done???

Your input appreciated.
 

public hermit

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I am puzzled by the 'ecumenical' movement that hopes to bring unity to the Body of Christ.

There seems to be lots of inclusive dialogue yet little apology for the extreme evils of the past.

My wife was in France a couple of years ago and visited a stone tower where a protestant believer was imprisoned for 36 years for simply attending a protestant church meeting.

Marie Durand - Wikipedia

Evils were committed on all sides no doubt.

Could an international meeting be called to allow repentance to be expressed and forgiveness to be offered as our faith seems to not have attended to shameful and evil acts in history.

I could be out of touch - has this already been done???

Your input appreciated.

It makes sense that repentance and forgiveness would be intregal to the healing needed for ecumenicism. Your question prompted me to see what the WCC might have along those lines. I don't know enough about the WCC to know if it has had a meeting of its members specifically for that purpose, but I did find reference to the need for forgiveness, reconciliation, and accountability in their constitution. One of their stated purposes:

promote the prayerful search for forgiveness and reconciliation in a spirit of mutual accountability

Constitution and Rules of the World Council of Churches
 
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jamiec

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I am puzzled by the 'ecumenical' movement that hopes to bring unity to the Body of Christ.

There seems to be lots of inclusive dialogue yet little apology for the extreme evils of the past.

My wife was in France a couple of years ago and visited a stone tower where a protestant believer was imprisoned for 36 years for simply attending a protestant church meeting.

Marie Durand - Wikipedia

Evils were committed on all sides no doubt.

Could an international meeting be called to allow repentance to be expressed and forgiveness to be offered as our faith seems to not have attended to shameful and evil acts in history.

I could be out of touch - has this already been done???

Your input appreciated.
There has been a great deal of this. Most of it, as far as I know, perfectly amicable.

Though there was one incident some years ago in which the present pope undertook to apologise to the Waldensians for the wrongs of the past, such as the massacre of 1655, which was formerly very well-known among Protestants. He apologised, but his apology was (very politely) turned down.

On the other hand, there was in 1909, at Geneva, the building of an “expiatory monument” by Calvinists in order to heal the bitterness, such as it may have been, resulting from Calvin‘s complicity in the death of Michael Servetus. And there are also the 95 examples of reconciliation and apology of Pope John Paul II.

Whether all these apologies, including of course the many others not mentioned, have all be always been wise and well informed and even necessary, is another matter entirely.

In my humble opinion, a great many of them, however well intended, amount to attacks upon questions who what ever the faults, were trying to put the faith they believed in two practical effect.

The fact that the Christians of the past had rather different values from ourselves in the present we live in, tends to be entirely ignored. A good deal of this stuff looks uncommonly like virtue-signalling

in my opinion, it would be much better to let the past look after itself, and to avoid using it as a treasury of things to hate other people for. After all, Christians are supposed to forgive injuries, not to feed on them in their hearts by something very different from faith in Christ.
Equally, if Mennonites and Anglicans and the Reformed and other Christians regard this or that Protestant or group of Protestants as martyrs to the truth, then fair enough. People should be left to follow the results of their doctrines, and not be prevented from doing so by the fear of not being ecumenical enough.

Equally, Catholics have their own figures who are regarded as Martyrs; so Anglicans, true to what they believe is right, should carry on commemorating Cranmer, Latimer, and the others; while Catholics honour those whom they regard as Martyrs. Regarding a Christian or Christian as a martyr or martyrs, does not imply any kind of ill-will or bitterness to the group of people, Christian or otherwise, who put that person or persons to death.

Cranmer and his fellow-sufferers appear in the Anglican calendar of saints, and many of the Catholics put to death under Henry VIII and his non-Catholic successors appear in the Catholic calendar of Saints.

Anglicanism is a very good example of a type of Christianity which honours both Catholics and Protestants, though I don’t think that it goes to the extent of honouring ancient biblical patriarchs, as the Lutherans do.
 
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Carl Emerson

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It makes sense that repentance and forgiveness would be intregal to the healing needed for ecumenicism. Your question prompted me to see what the WCC might have along those lines. I don't know enough about the WCC to know if it has had a meeting of its members specifically for that purpose, but I did find reference to the need for forgiveness, reconciliation, and accountability in their constitution. One of their stated purposes:

promote the prayerful search for forgiveness and reconciliation in a spirit of mutual accountability

Constitution and Rules of the World Council of Churches

I have never heard of this being done, it deserves serious attention.
 
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Carl Emerson

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in my opinion, it would be much better to let the past look after itself, and to avoid using it as a treasury of things to hate other people for. After all, Christians are supposed to forgive injuries, not to feed on them in their hearts by something very different from faith in Christ.

Yes, I think repentance and forgiveness is needed but judgement is not.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Satan has tried his best to cause mayhem on all sides throughout church history, yet, he has failed.

Still, there is room to apologise for what was allowed to happen with his help.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I think "repentance" is the wrong word. There should be a formal renunciation of evil acts done by people in the past, but one can't repent of an act one did not perform.

Right, but a formal apology would go a long way...
 
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dqhall

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Yes, I think repentance and forgiveness is needed but judgement is not.
The French Catholics killed over 10,000 Protestant Huguenots in 1572.
The Bloody Violence of the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre

In 1620 a boatload of English Puritans fled persecution in Europe landing at Plymouth, Massachusetts. They gave thanks to God for their first harvest. This year November 25th is a national holiday and a day off for most when families will reunite, give thanks and have supper like the Puritans’ harvest feast. The day is marked on calendars as Thanksgiving.
 
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Carl Emerson

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The French Catholics killed over 10,000 Protestant Huguenots in 1572.
The Bloody Violence of the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre

In 1520 a boatload of English Puritans fled persecution in Europe landing at Plymouth, Massachusetts. They gave thanks to God for their first harvest. This year November 25th is a national holiday and a day off for most when families will reunite, give thanks and have supper like the Puritans’ harvest feast. The day is marked on calendars as Thanksgiving.

Any idea how many would have been Huguenots?
 
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jamiec

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I think "repentance" is the wrong word. There should be a formal renunciation of evil acts done by people in the past, but one can't repent of an act one did not perform.
Totally agree. One of the more annoying aspects of all this, is that one very often hears pleas for people who have had no hand in any of the acts of past centuries, to apologise for them. Which is nonsensical for the reason you give.

I do not trust the tendency to apologise for events that are now in the dead past because it looks much too like an attempt to clear the decks of the past generally, as though the past of the church were entirely irrelevant and had no authority over the present. The roots of Christianity lie in the remote past, so it cannot possibly treat the past as a total irrelevance from which nothing can be learned.

If the church is to be apostolic in reality and not merely in name, it has to value the teaching handed onto and by the Apostles.
 
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dqhall

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Carl Emerson

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Totally agree. One of the more annoying aspects of all this, is that one very often hears pleas for people who have had no hand in any of the acts of past centuries, to apologise for them. Which is nonsensical for the reason you give.

I do not trust the tendency to apologise for events that are now in the dead past because it looks much too like an attempt to clear the decks of the past generally, as though the past of the church were entirely irrelevant and had no authority over the present. The roots of Christianity lie in the remote past, so it cannot possibly treat the past as a total irrelevance from which nothing can be learned.

If the church is to be apostolic in reality and not merely in name, it has to value the teaching handed onto and by the Apostles.

But you agree renounciation is necessary?

Renounciation without apology?
 
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RDKirk

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But you agree renounciation is necessary?

Renounciation without apology?

An apology is for what you've done. You can't apologize for people long dead. Did Paul apologize for the Judeizers?

But a repudiation is acknowledgement that what they did was outside the will of God--as wrong then as it is wrong now, because the Word has never changed--and will not be repeated.
 
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Carl Emerson

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An apology is for what you've done. You can't apologize for people long dead. Did Paul apologize for the Judeizers?

But a repudiation is acknowledgement that what they did was outside the will of God--as wrong then as it is wrong now, because the Word has never changed--and will not be repeated.

How about regret?
 
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Bob Crowley

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I'm cynical about this business of apologising for the past.

In Australia a few years ago we had an official apology from the then prime minister for the way the indigenous people had been treated by government and society in the past.

But most of us had nothing to do with that mistreatment.

Meanwhile the same society bending over backwards to apologise for actions they had nothing to do with is busy legalising the killing of its own unborn children.

It's hypocrtitical. What are our descendants going to do 100 years in the future? Apologise for all the murders of unborn children that WE carried out?

Let the past look after itself. Our job is to live Christian lives now, and that includes fixing the divisions in the church TODAY.
 
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Carl Emerson

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By the way I think renounciation is a better word than repudiation...

The Greek meaning is to 'speak against'...

2 Corinthians 4:2
but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in trickery nor distorting the word of God, but by the open proclamation of the truth commending ourselves to every person’s conscience in the sight of God.
 
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