Time Loop

[JohnEmmett]

You say you have "watched" the map change. I doubt that you could explain the unchanged geography in a consistent way. And still you claim to "know" the map.

New Zealand was N East of Australia

Now S East

I noticed the difference overnight, I am not alone

~

 

[JohnEmmett]

The troubling thing is…

you would think such a thing would be obvious to everyone but No

 

[JohnEmmett]

Meet the folks who remember New Zealand being in a different place

 

[Kylie]

Everyone is wrong? No…

Argument from popularity.

Yes, they can all be wrong.

 

[Kylie]

There is no study that claims our every memory is wrong


Rather any study would only conclude memory isn’t perfect

True.

And whenever our memory disagree with reality, we should conclude that this is an example of one of those imperfect memories.

 

[Bungle_Bear]

The troubling thing is…

you would think such a thing would be obvious to everyone but No

You would think the changes to weather and climate would be obvious to everyone, but No.

Why do you never address the consequences of your claims?

 

[Freodin]

You would think the changes to weather and climate would be obvious to everyone, but No.

Why do you never address the consequences of your claims?

You would think that these changes would be obvious to everyone who has a direct relationship with the places in question. Like, ship captains, pilots... or even people living there. But no. Of course not.

To use one of the terms that JE doesn't "believe in"... it is because these things are "mundane". They are irrelavant for the people involved. They might consider themselves deeply engaged with these things - like "But I was a geography nerd" or "I looked into these car mirrors all the time"... but for all of them, it was just an inconsequential curio.

But reality is interconnected. Changing reality has consequences that these people simply do not - cannot - imagine.
For them, New Zealand is just a few lines and blobs of color on a piece of paper. You can draw it anywhere you like, right? Copy and paste.
That a real place isn't just that... that it's existence and state has causes, and has effects... that is just something they never consider.

If they had to face these realities, they would never have these "memories". They never do. It's always these irrelevant details... but never something that affects them personally.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Yes, they can all be wrong.

Or just you

Which is more likely?

 

[JohnEmmett]

it was just an inconsequential curio.

This effect is showing that nothing is inconsequential

People care about every aspect of culture

 

[JohnEmmett]

Why do you never address the consequences of your claims?

New Zealand is part of a continent

Zealandia

That continent sunk with Atlantis

 

[JohnEmmett]

And whenever our memory disagree with reality, we should conclude that this is an example of one of those imperfect memories.

Britney Spears plaid skirt residue

 

[JohnEmmett]

Britney Spears' Iconic Skirt

 

[Freodin]

Amazing. People wear different clothes on different occasions. Totally unheard of.

The problem that you have is still: you can bring as many examples of "things have changed" as you want... you have not a single piece of evidence. You don't have anything but people claiming "But I remember it differently!" and "People's memory cannot be wrong".

Well... we know that memory can be wrong. We know why memory can be wrong... and this is a fantastic example.

Memory isn't a recording. It is a reconstruction. And in this case, it is a very simple explanation that people think of Britney's "iconic" skirt... and insert this idea into a scence that didn't have it.

But this is also a very good example for the "inconsequential" things I mentioned.
Whether Mrs. Spears wore one skirt or another or something completely different on a certain specific occasion does not matter.

But things like the death of a person - Nelson Mandela for example - or the position of a geological feature... it does matter.
Here, the death of Nelson Mandela in prison would have completely changed the history of South Africa. But the people who "remember" Mandela's early death never "remember" such a changed history. People who "remember" New Zealand being in a different place never "remember" New Zealand having a completely different climate or ecology or history.

Because these people do not "care about every aspect of culture". You are a prime example for that: facts that you don't know or that seem to be "mundane" or irrelevant to you... you simply ignore.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Because these people do not "care about every aspect of culture"

Speak for yourself

I care

 

[Freodin]

Speak for yourself

I care

You do?
So what was South Africa's history after the early death of Nelson Mandela? Heck, what was the history of "current" South Africa without Mandela dying in prison? Can you say? Would you know without googling it?

What were the enviromental and geological effects of the "shifting maps"? What was the climate of New Zealand when it was NE of Australia? Do you know what it is now, in its SE position?

No. You don't.

Because you don't care.

 

[JohnEmmett]

You do?

No. You don't.

To observe attentively is to remember distinctly. -Edgar Allan Poe

 

[Bungle_Bear]

New Zealand is part of a continent

Zealandia

That continent sunk with Atlantis

Since you obviously didn't understand, let me repeat the question: Why do you never address the consequences of your claims? Moving New Zealand south would not only affect the climate of New Zealand, it would affect the climate of the entire Earth. Ocean currents, winds etc would be altered. But apparently in all these different realities NZ never had a tropical climate even though it should have. It should have been subject to typhoons, but it wasn't. Why do you feel it acceptable to just handwave these things away yet insist that we should just accept your assertions that "despite all evidence to the contrary my memory is perfect, so you must be wrong"?

 

[JohnEmmett]

Slet me repeat the question: Why do you never address the consequences of your claims?

you are having difficulty with the basic idea


why make the issue more complex

 

[Bungle_Bear]

you are having difficulty with the basic idea


why make the issue more complex

I am not the one making things more complex. My explanation is reality - it doesn’t get much simpler.

Why do you never address the consequences of your claims?

 

[JohnEmmett]

My explanation is reality - it doesn’t get much simpler.

That amounts to blind faith

unquestioning belief in something, even when it's unreasonable or wrong