- Mar 4, 2005
- 31,258
- 10,162
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
there were several the rich man comes to mind and then the greatest commandment another neither mention the Sabbath command.
Mat. 19:
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder (1), Thou shalt not commit adultery (2), Thou shalt not steal(3), Thou shalt not bear false witness (4),
19 Honour thy father and thy mother(5): and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself(6).
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Where are the other three?
None of your presentation can be or is supported by scripture. There is no statement saying that the first day is a "rest day" or that it replaces the Sabbath! The same scriptures that you have quoted says the opposite to your claim.When Jesus said that He is Lord of the sabbath, that was the first indication that He would bring in a new order of rest and worship. The feast of first fruits was held on THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH, and His resurrection was also on the same day -- the first day of the week. That is why Christ is called "the first fruits of them that slept" (1 Cor 15:20,23). Therefore that day of resurrection became "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10).
The disciples met to worship on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). That is sufficient evidence that the Lord's Day became the day of rest and worship, and replaced the sabbath. If you are looking for a "commandment" then the commandment is to simply enter into His rest (Heb 4:11). The Hebrew sabbath was a "shadow" of Christ's perfect rest after He finished His work of redemption (Col 2:16,17).
So why did he need to keep the commandments and not us?Notice that only the last six commandments are mentioned. This man was breaking the first four commandments by making his wealth his idol. He was told to let go of his idol so that he could keep the other four commandments. But even if he could have kept all those commandments, he could not have been saved (Rom 3:28). He needed to believe that Jesus is God and that only His perfect life and His perfect sacrifice could save him. He needed to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (whom he regarded simply as a good Jewish rabbi.)
You rightfully pointed out that he had not place God first in his life. Does that not tell us that the first four commands is about love and worship to God? Be careful how answer, the Sabbath is in there.Probably off the point, but you might have noticed that Jesus only says to keep the commandments that relate to other people. He says nothing about the commandments that relate to/honour God.
Why? Because he knew that the man was very rich; he put money first. This rich man told Jesus that he kept all the commandments towards his fellow man, and asked "what do I still lack?" (Matt 19:29). It was THEN that Jesus tackled his main problem - i.e that money was his god, that he put it first. So he told him to give it all away and then follow him.
The man wanted eternal life, but didn't seem to have considered God at all. In all 3 synoptic Gospels he asks what one thing he has to DO to obtain, or inherit, eternal life.
You rightfully pointed out that he had not place God first in his life. Does that not tell us that the first four commands is about love and worship to God?
Be careful how answer, the Sabbath is in there.
Could he have been trying to use his influence to bring Jesus into line with the Pharisees? I think his real objective was to manipulate and mock Jesus by condemnation.Probably off the point, but you might have noticed that Jesus only says to keep the commandments that relate to other people. He says nothing about the commandments that relate to/honour God.
Why? Because he knew that the man was very rich; he put money first. This rich man told Jesus that he kept all the commandments towards his fellow man, and asked "what do I still lack?" (Matt 19:29). It was THEN that Jesus tackled his main problem - i.e that money was his god, that he put it first. So he told him to give it all away and then follow him.
The man wanted eternal life, but didn't seem to have considered God at all. In all 3 synoptic Gospels he asks what one thing he has to DO to obtain, or inherit, eternal life.
Please read the ALL READ thread by a mod in this sub forum.Gods glorious guiding is the law upon all of those that believe in God.
Every one of you that believe in God, His ways are glorious and necessary for life. You blessings from the Lord.
You've already seen the response I gave to this, in a thread that was locked down by the moderation staff here. What you've done is latch onto a statement from Jesus that depicts compliance with the Mosaic covenant necessary to gain life - which is a tenet of Judaism, and Jesus reflected that soteriology accurately during the religious dispensation Judaism existed in.So why did he need to keep the commandments and not us?
No, that doesn't tell us what you've inserted into a text that doesn't say anything remotely suggesting your opinion. You've been challenged for years to find a commandment to leave God's rest and revert to the periodic Sabbath shadow that was never given to the Gentile nations, and have never produced anything.You rightfully pointed out that he had not place God first in his life. Does that not tell us that the first four commands is about love and worship to God? Be careful how answer, the Sabbath is in there.
I don't agree with the assessment Job8 makes with 'replacing' the Sabbath with another periodic shadow on the first day. But the second paragraph of his post appeals to the Biblical unction to enter into God's rest, which actually originated long before the Sabbath existed, which I agree with entirely. And yes, the citation he provides from Hebrews 4 affirms his position as Biblical.None of your presentation can be or is supported by scripture. There is no statement saying that the first day is a "rest day" or that it replaces the Sabbath! The same scriptures that you have quoted says the opposite to your claim.Job8 said:The disciples met to worship on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). That is sufficient evidence that the Lord's Day became the day of rest and worship, and replaced the sabbath. If you are looking for a "commandment" then the commandment is to simply enter into His rest (Heb 4:11). The Hebrew sabbath was a "shadow" of Christ's perfect rest after He finished His work of redemption (Col 2:16,17).
Let me extract those questions from the quote, so they appear before you when you provide a response:You're focusing on the man and ignoring the woman. The man in your hypothetical situation is has a decision to render. He could:
1) locate another witness to the woman's action, and go through the process that would have her stoned to death.
2) wriggle his wedding ring in front of the woman's face and basically refuse her.
3) feed on the passion (aka lust) in his heart and decide two wives are better than one (sound familiar?) and follow through on his passion (aka lust).
Only one of these responses is in accordance to the Mosaic covenant Law you're promoting on this forum.
WWJD?
John 8I only highlighted a couple of the Pharisees' statements for simplicity.
2 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say? 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first. 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?
11 She said, No one, Lord.
And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.
12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said to Him, You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.
Two questions to consider:
- When Jesus didn't condone what the Law required, what attribute did He display which is absent in the Law?
- Why did the Pharisees, who promoted adherance to the Law, reject Jesus?
Did Jesus say that we are not to keep the Sabbath? NO!Of course.
Jesus also said we should put God first, "seek first the kingdom of God", and told us to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength.
So? Did Jesus say "You MUST keep the Sabbath - Gentiles included"?
No.
But that is exactly what He said!He told us that it was God's will that we believe in Jesus, that the work of God was to believe in Jesus, that if we came to Jesus we would have eternal life, and that he (Jesus) had come to seek and save the lost and to give his life as a ransom for many. He did not say "keeping the commands, and the Sabbath, is essential to receiving life and all people MUST do that." The only command he gave us was to love.
There is no Judaism verse Christianity, in the sense that there is one means of salvation for them and another for us. We are all saved in Christ. Rev. 13:8You've already seen the response I gave to this, in a thread that was locked down by the moderation staff here. What you've done is latch onto a statement from Jesus that depicts compliance with the Mosaic covenant necessary to gain life - which is a tenet of Judaism, and Jesus reflected that soteriology accurately during the religious dispensation Judaism existed in.
There is no contrasting set of Commandments! Where are they?That isn't conveyed to us. We have a commandment to cast off the Mosaic covenant, given with the reason that those retained by that old covenant have no claim to eternal life. That's a central tenet of Christianity. Taking these two contrasting sets of commandments of God and trying to force them into the same dispensation isn't possible. Old-covenant "christianity" is a oxymoron that doesn't exist, and it would serve you to recognize this instead of trying deperately to convey the impossible to those of us who aren't ever going to accept it.
The Sabbath is never quoted in scripture as a shadow of anything! If so show us!No, that doesn't tell us what you've inserted into a text that doesn't say anything remotely suggesting your opinion. You've been challenged for years to find a commandment to leave God's rest and revert to the periodic Sabbath shadow that was never given to the Gentile nations, and have never produced anything.
Jesus met with His disciples on many other days, so what do we do with those days? Did Jesus command them to keep the day? NO! Did the disciples every keep the first day? NO! Jesus asked a question, Mat. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?I don't agree with the assessment Job8 makes with 'replacing' the Sabbath with another periodic shadow on the first day. But the second paragraph of his post appeals to the Biblical unction to enter into God's rest, which actually originated long before the Sabbath existed, which I agree with entirely. And yes, the citation he provides from Hebrews 4 affirms his position as Biblical.
Bear in mind that John 20:19 shows Jesus meeting with His disciples on the first day of the week after His resurrection. We didn't choose that time - God did. From there we have the tradition forming to meet on the first day of the week because God chose to meet with us on that day, and we're always happy for a repeat performance to meet with Him. It doesn't replace the Sabbath, which remains entrenched in the Mosaic covenant that codified it. It is God's will that led to His disposition of that first covenant from Mount Sinai.
Hebrews 10
8 Previously saying, Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God. He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
No burn offerings was FOR the Sabbath, on not for.I remind you of the burnt offerings the Law demanded for the Sabbath. Don't ignore the implications ending the rites requiring those offerings leads to.
Elder111: were my two questions at the bottom of this post too much for you to consider?
This was directly on the topic you introduced, after all.
Let me extract those questions from the quote, so they appear before you when you provide a response:
- When Jesus didn't condone what the Law required, what attribute did He display which is absent in the Law?
Why did the Pharisees, who promoted adherance to the Law, reject Jesus?
You should take this to heart because Jews were about keeping the Law and Gentiles basically had little desire to keep Israel's laws. Either Gentiles were forced to become Jews and keep the Law or Jews were no longer required under Paul's Gospel to keep the Law.Does not Romans 2:9-11 demonstrate that there is no difference between Jew and Gentle as well as Gal. 3:28-29. We all are saved by the same means, that is Christ?
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?