Time for REAL Christian Warriors is NOW !

[WarriorOfChange]

OK, so here I am after 3 days of great learning from the Willow Creek Association's Leadership Summit, looking around at what makes us fail as Christians.

I have been a student of this for a long time. I grew up in Southern California, where "how you dress and look" means less than it does here in Kansas, and that needs to be addressed.

I absolutely refuse to wear Khaki's and a golf shirt to Services. Its not me. I dont wear them to work. I dont wear them to family gatherings. Plain and simple, here it is.

I can't stand being around 75% of so-called Christians anymore, and I am a leader in my Church. Yes, I believe in the Bible and I have been saved by the grace of God and my sins are forgiven because Jesus died on the cross for all of us.

Here is a quote from the lead singer of a band that was interviewed for the conference. "It's not Christ that I have a problem with, its Christians. They are judgemental and they are the last to help out when 'certain' social issues arise."

That about states it all.

We have a serious problem with Christianity today in the USA. The majority of Christians would say that I am a sinner because I wear shorts and a tank top with flip-flops to Church on Sunday morning. I say they are full of crap and they need to step up to the plate and see how they would score on a Christian ethics test.

Not that I am saying I am perfect. I dont believe in Gay marriage, however, I am all for stopping the spread of AIDS and agree that if a Gay couple brought a baby to my church to be blessed and baptised, I would gladly say yes to the blessing, but then explain that the proper way to be baptised is to make the choice yourself to outwardly show your faith.

So I will boil this down to one question for all of you out there who are shocked by this and want to "get into it" with me and help solve a serious issue we all face.

What have we accomplished as Christians if we are not only still judgemental of non-believers, but judgemental of fellow believers as well?

Lets Talk about it !!!!!!

"Love thy neighbor" (Whos your neighbor?)

Warrior

 

[ReformedChapin]

Woah bro you seem all over the place there. First I will be the first to agree with you that the church is full of hypocrites. And the worse part of it is that people use scripture to keep on their hypocracy. They stick to those teachings of "don't judge others." The problem is that there is a big difference between JUDGING and RECOGNIZING people by their fruits. The same goes with the homosexual agenda, they try to manipulate scripture all over the place to fit their views..they have gone as far as calling God a sinner. It also sounds like you should change churches, dressing casual should not be a big problem for wherever you go to church.

 

[WarriorOfChange]

I must have mislead some of you. I am not speaking for my Church, I am speaking for all Christians as a whole. My Church does all it can to stay out of the judgemental field, and I can tell they are doing a good job.

With that said, I want it to be known that before I chose my place of Worship, I spent 4 months looking for the place that would actually accept me for who I am and how I look.

My true frustration is that JUDGEMENTALISM, in my opinion is one of the larger reasons that more folks dont attend Church.

The conflict continues.

Warrior

 

[Be11e]

I agree with you - but i'm lucky enough not to have to worry about what you mentioned. I feel that all my Christian brothers and sisters, the ones i know at least, try and follow the word as best they can. Judging is in our nature, but i know i try my hardest not to, as that's what the Lord wants. Be careful you don't generalise too much.

 

[texseeker]

Yes, Christians are judgemental because they are human. Always have been, always will be. It's a problem I wrestle with myself, although I sincerely try not to be judgemental. It is always easy to find fault in others

As far as the church as a whole, I believe a church has to stand for some Biblical standards, and they cannot and should not be changed to fit the times. If something is wrong, it will still be wrong tomorrow, even if it becomes acceptable in our culture.

That said, I don't think it should be used to exclude people in any way. They should be taught Biblical truths, and hopefully they will make the decision to repent of actions that are wrong.

I am not a fan of declaring certain sins to be worse than others. I think the big problem is when you don't want to "take ownership" of ever doing anything wrong, and would rather change the church to meet your current lifestyle.

 

[humbledbyhim]

OK, so here I am after 3 days of great learning from the Willow Creek Association's Leadership Summit, looking around at what makes us fail as Christians.

I have been a student of this for a long time. I grew up in Southern California, where "how you dress and look" means less than it does here in Kansas, and that needs to be addressed.

I absolutely refuse to wear Khaki's and a golf shirt to Services. Its not me. I dont wear them to work. I dont wear them to family gatherings. Plain and simple, here it is.

I can't stand being around 75% of so-called Christians anymore, and I am a leader in my Church. Yes, I believe in the Bible and I have been saved by the grace of God and my sins are forgiven because Jesus died on the cross for all of us.

Here is a quote from the lead singer of a band that was interviewed for the conference. "It's not Christ that I have a problem with, its Christians. They are judgemental and they are the last to help out when 'certain' social issues arise."

That about states it all.

We have a serious problem with Christianity today in the USA. The majority of Christians would say that I am a sinner because I wear shorts and a tank top with flip-flops to Church on Sunday morning. I say they are full of crap and they need to step up to the plate and see how they would score on a Christian ethics test.

Not that I am saying I am perfect. I dont believe in Gay marriage, however, I am all for stopping the spread of AIDS and agree that if a Gay couple brought a baby to my church to be blessed and baptised, I would gladly say yes to the blessing, but then explain that the proper way to be baptised is to make the choice yourself to outwardly show your faith.

So I will boil this down to one question for all of you out there who are shocked by this and want to "get into it" with me and help solve a serious issue we all face.

What have we accomplished as Christians if we are not only still judgemental of non-believers, but judgemental of fellow believers as well?

Lets Talk about it !!!!!!

"Love thy neighbor" (Whos your neighbor?)

Warrior

In terms of dress, God doesn't really care about that. However, he does expect a certain reverance, and people many believe (myself included) that wearing nice clothes to church (at least on Sunday) shows a certain respect for God. This doesn't mean that one doesn't respect God when they don't dress in nice clothes to church. It means that dressing in nice clothes can be a sign of respect along with your other good works. Also, wearing nice clothes mitigates the risk (not eliminates but mitigates) the risk of someone coming in with clothes that are too revealing our down right vulgar.

 

[humbledbyhim]

I think the big problem is when you don't want to "take ownership" of ever doing anything wrong, and would rather change the church to meet your current lifestyle.

Bingo.

 

[lordvoldemort]

My question is what makes a Christian judgemental?

The same Judgemental attitude is very similar to "blue blood" attitude toward those that were not "blue blood".

It is that isoltionism that Most Christians have and live in. They live a buble of "christendom" where little new information, new blood and such enter in, and when they do it is shot down.

Christians (many) of them fear change, that is why judgementalism exist. Because they fear someone knocking them off their pedestal. They view themselves better than societey around them and therefore they live by their own code of conduct, in most cases, would run contrary to the bible and even commonsense. And so to keep their lifestyle, they scrutinze those that enter into their world, in hope of making them leave.

 

[intricatic]

I must have mislead some of you. I am not speaking for my Church, I am speaking for all Christians as a whole. My Church does all it can to stay out of the judgemental field, and I can tell they are doing a good job.

With that said, I want it to be known that before I chose my place of Worship, I spent 4 months looking for the place that would actually accept me for who I am and how I look.

My true frustration is that JUDGEMENTALISM, in my opinion is one of the larger reasons that more folks dont attend Church.

The conflict continues.

Warrior

This is being very judgemental. I kid, I kid!

Personally, things like that don't matter to me very much. I guess I just don't see any reason to get worked up over having to dress up to Church. On the same side of the coin, I don't have any problem with any Churches specifically because they aren't concerned with a standard of dress. The real question is whether they actually teach the word of God, or if they cater to the current philosophies of the world. If I found a Church that held a strong scriptural and doctrinal foundation, but every member wore beach t-shirts, shorts and sandals to service, I'd probably do the same.
If I found a Church that expected the congregation to at least look like they care a little about their appearance out of reverence to God, and held the same doctrinal leanings as the first Church I described, that'd be the Church I'd attend and I'd dress the part.

 

[intricatic]

It is that isoltionism that Most Christians have and live in. They live a buble of "christendom" where little new information, new blood and such enter in, and when they do it is shot down.

Christians (many) of them fear change, that is why judgementalism exist. Because they fear someone knocking them off their pedestal. They view themselves better than societey around them and therefore they live by their own code of conduct, in most cases, would run contrary to the bible and even commonsense. And so to keep their lifestyle, they scrutinze those that enter into their world, in hope of making them leave.

Two dimensional thought, here.

Most Christians, in my experience, don't feel they're better than the society around them, but they know they're not supposed to be blemished by the culture they live in. Ah, for the days of the Early Church... But why, do you suppose, these Christians you talk of fear change? (although I find this to be a poor choice of description, I'll use it for the sake of coherence)

We do live by our own code of conduct, and that should be explicitly the word of God.

 

[Bernergirl]

I haven't found many Christians ot be that judgmental of appearance, personally. I am sorry you have had bad experiences. We're all human and we all struggle. The important thing is to remember to forgive.

From my experience, I would know about the whole judging on appearances thing... I am a purple haired teenager whose typical dress involves multiple layers that not only are multicolored but clash horribly (she says as she snickers with mischievous delight), a blue embroidered head covering, and ankle to floor length skirts. My style of dress probably looks pretty crazy to other people, but I am fortunate enough to live in a very diverse area where the different styles are embraced and to attend a chruch just artsy enough to think my weirdo dresses are cool. I appreciate it a lot.

I must say, the best witness to people, whatever the goal, is living out your own principles. Be the example of the person who doesn't generalize and judge quickly. Be the example of the loving, Christ-following Christian. Be the example of the slow to anger and quick to forgive. You can't do it on your own, but Christ can do it through you.

God bless!

Lissa

 

[lordvoldemort]

Two dimensional thought, here.

Most Christians, in my experience, don't feel they're better than the society around them, but they know they're not supposed to be blemished by the culture they live in. Ah, for the days of the Early Church... But why, do you suppose, these Christians you talk of fear change? (although I find this to be a poor choice of description, I'll use it for the sake of coherence)

We do live by our own code of conduct, and that should be explicitly the word of God.

Normal life, like going to work, going to church and other activities and having exposure to other "non christian" events is a cure for it.

But im talking more about, Christian Colleges, people who surround themselves with Christians and have little contact with the "outside" world.

Most/many christians live in a balance of both worlds, but every now and then they find a hermit.

 

[MikeMcK]

OK, so here I am after 3 days of great learning from the Willow Creek Association's Leadership Summit, looking around at what makes us fail as Christians.

I have been a student of this for a long time. I grew up in Southern California, where "how you dress and look" means less than it does here in Kansas, and that needs to be addressed.

I absolutely refuse to wear Khaki's and a golf shirt to Services. Its not me. I dont wear them to work. I dont wear them to family gatherings. Plain and simple, here it is.

I can't stand being around 75% of so-called Christians anymore, and I am a leader in my Church. Yes, I believe in the Bible and I have been saved by the grace of God and my sins are forgiven because Jesus died on the cross for all of us.

Here is a quote from the lead singer of a band that was interviewed for the conference. "It's not Christ that I have a problem with, its Christians. They are judgemental and they are the last to help out when 'certain' social issues arise."

That about states it all.

We have a serious problem with Christianity today in the USA. The majority of Christians would say that I am a sinner because I wear shorts and a tank top with flip-flops to Church on Sunday morning. I say they are full of crap and they need to step up to the plate and see how they would score on a Christian ethics test.

Not that I am saying I am perfect. I dont believe in Gay marriage, however, I am all for stopping the spread of AIDS and agree that if a Gay couple brought a baby to my church to be blessed and baptised, I would gladly say yes to the blessing, but then explain that the proper way to be baptised is to make the choice yourself to outwardly show your faith.

So I will boil this down to one question for all of you out there who are shocked by this and want to "get into it" with me and help solve a serious issue we all face.

What have we accomplished as Christians if we are not only still judgemental of non-believers, but judgemental of fellow believers as well?

Lets Talk about it !!!!!!

"Love thy neighbor" (Whos your neighbor?)

Warrior

You lost me at "Willow Creek".

 

[Jesus Is Real]

,...if a Gay couple brought a baby to my church to be blessed and baptised, I would gladly say yes to the blessing, but then explain that the proper way to be baptised is to make the choice yourself to outwardly show your faith.

So I will boil this down to one question for all of you out there who are shocked by this and want to "get into it" with me and help solve a serious issue we all face.

What have we accomplished as Christians if we are not only still judgemental of non-believers, but judgemental of fellow believers as well?

Lets Talk about it !!!!!!

"Love thy neighbor" (Whos your neighbor?)

Wow you said it. Your really on the cutting edge there in life.

I'm a house wife.

Whos your neighbor?:
My husband, family, block neighbors (boy did they get a lot of our garden tomatoes this year!), one couple I know is gay and I LOVE THEM!!! My life style in the Fear of the Lord will do more than my condemning mouth ever will.
I have seen a few of my neighbors be broken by the Lord since we've moved in this neighborhood. I do believe when a prophet is in your neighborhood it does shake things up a bit. And I've seen it more times than one without giving them any of "The Letter of the Law" but merely letting my light shine. I use to shine the light that was darkness in me until God in His Goodness Showed Me His Way. And His Way of Carrying His Word.

And CF MEMBERS!


SO YOU ARE MY NEIGHBOR.
I am be submitted to you in the Lord and in the Fear of the Lord.
Even your shoe strings I am not worthy to untie for you are God's Righteous Servant in the Lord - as you are in The Lord.



UPDATED:

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Normal life, like going to work, going to church and other activities and having exposure to other "non christian" events is a cure for it.

But im talking more about, Christian Colleges, people who surround themselves with Christians and have little contact with the "outside" world.

Most/many christians live in a balance of both worlds, but every now and then they find a hermit.

I think most of us are CF-hermit's!

 

[intricatic]

Normal life, like going to work, going to church and other activities and having exposure to other "non christian" events is a cure for it.

But im talking more about, Christian Colleges, people who surround themselves with Christians and have little contact with the "outside" world.

Most/many christians live in a balance of both worlds, but every now and then they find a hermit.

Actually, a "ballance" is not biblical. We're told to be in the world, but not of it. This implies that we're to remain bound to our standard, while the world continues in it's own. Doesn't mean we can't enjoy other people, or enjoy artistic culture, but we can't be bound by it. For a lot of people, that's a really difficult thing to do and as a result, the world sees a lot of "judgemental" Christians when they're really just rejecting postmodern culture.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

Actually, a "ballance" is not biblical. We're told to be in the world, but not of it. This implies that we're to remain bound to our standard, while the world continues in it's own. Doesn't mean we can't enjoy other people, or enjoy artistic culture, but we can't be bound by it. For a lot of people, that's a really difficult thing to do and as a result, the world sees a lot of "judgemental" Christians when they're really just rejecting postmodern culture.

"THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE"

I do know that God is dealing with "us Christian's" first - Judgment must first come to the house of God and it isn't pretty!!! Demons are all over us and through us and in us - because we haven't repented and we for the most part don't like to repent. Our flesh nature we have loved more, I too must admit that as well. ME TOO.

GOD IS JUDGING US!!!! NOW!!!.....it's His Chastisments of Judging people in general. WE HAVE BEEN SO WRONG!!!
And the hisses and the spits have been warranted. We have no where to hide any more not even behind Scripture.

We all have gotten 'high-minded' for God's Word sake and in this process we have caused many to stumble and fall taking many with us in direct rebellion against God Himself. Does that sound like someone we have heard of?

How about Lucifer?

Well I don't want 1/3 of the population to follow my satanic ways (flesh) which are going against His Heart of Mercy and Pity. I don't want that of me and I don't want you and that of you. You can keep it - and still I will choose The Cross that per change others might 'Be Saved'.

We have been working just like him, because we are not showing The Cross of Christ for our fellow brethren in the Faith and those outside of the Faith who will be Saved soon.

We're looking like a pack of yelling children who have lost their way. That's why I have repented over being high-minded, but it destroys our bodies slowly like a moth eating away a rotten garment.

I choose now His Mercy and Grace! Because I see more and more my own weakness my own need for His Pity with each passing Day, even when I'm not Practicing Sin and Loving It but even when is Power is working in me doing 'good'. And still there is much in my soul where I have not given Him my reigns. So much land on my heart that hasn't be possessed in Patience. I am the sinner who won't dare look up to heaven because I am still experiencing as the apostle Paul did Rom. 7. It has erased from my Bible so each time I am led to read it it more hits to my own weaknessess within - the Law of Sin still at hand. But all this keeps me in "Hope". And if any want to argue that please don't I've repented of those arguments and am going Forward into The Promised Land, little by little. It's a fine line folks between Good and Evil, and it takes JESUS and HIS SPIRIT to still led us on 'aright'.

 

[intricatic]

"THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE"

I do know that God is dealing with "us Christian's" first - Judgment must first come to the house of God and it isn't pretty!!! Demons are all over us and through us and in us - because we haven't repented and we for the most part don't like to repent. Our flesh nature we have loved more, I too must admit that as well. ME TOO.

GOD IS JUDGING US!!!! NOW!!!.....it's His Chastisments of Judging people in general. WE HAVE BEEN SO WRONG!!!
And the hisses and the spits have been warranted. We have no where to hide any more not even behind Scripture.

We all have gotten 'high-minded' for God's Word sake and in this process we have caused many to stumble and fall taking many with us in direct rebellion against God Himself. Does that sound like someone we know?

How about Lucifer?

Well I don't 1/3 of the population to follow my Satanic ways which are going against His Heart of Mercy and Pity.

We have been working just like him, because we are not showing The Cross of Christ for our fellow brethren in the Faith and those outside of the Faith who will be Saved soon.

We're looking like a pack of yelling children who have lost their way. That's why I have repented over being high-minded, but it destroys our bodies slowly like a moth eating away a rotten garment.

I choose now His Mercy and Grace! Because I see more and more my own weakness my own need for His Pity with each passing Day, even when I'm not Practicing Sin and Loving It but even when is Power is working in me doing 'good'. And still there is much in my soul where I have not given Him my reigns. So much land on my heart that hasn't be possessed in Patience. I am the sinner who won't dare look up to heaven because I am still experiencing as the apostle Paul did Rom. 7. It has erased from my Bible so each time I am led to read it it more hits to my own weaknessess within - the Law of Sin still at hand. But all this keeps me in "Hope".

What are you talking about? I'm talking about rejecting postmodernism. Not rejecting people. There is a big difference. Let's not forget that postmodernism is a quite recent development in secular culture, afterall.

James 1
26 If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one’s religion is useless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

Let's not forget that the Early Church was extremely segregated in order that they might not be defiled by worldly philosophies and religions, and they extended many outreaches at the same time. I think it's incredibly judgemental, ironically, to treat those of the Church which carries on this tradition in such a way as I see a lot of in this thread.

 

[Yody]

I must have mislead some of you. I am not speaking for my Church, I am speaking for all Christians as a whole. My Church does all it can to stay out of the judgemental field, and I can tell they are doing a good job.

With that said, I want it to be known that before I chose my place of Worship, I spent 4 months looking for the place that would actually accept me for who I am and how I look.

My true frustration is that JUDGEMENTALISM, in my opinion is one of the larger reasons that more folks dont attend Church.

The conflict continues.

Warrior

well you may not care what I have to say but it sounds like your generalizing and plain out judging others


Are you so perfect that you can have time to judge other

Pick your speck before you do your neighbors(we all have planty of em)

If you dont have sins then go ahead and throw the 1st stone and if your not perfect then u have no reason to go around judging millions of people youve never met

 

[WarriorOfChange]

I am not speaking from a perfect point of view, now if you had read the first post, you would know that. I am just like everyone else, I am also fighting being judgemental.

But then again, wasnt I just pointing out that this is a real issue that we face as Christians?

Warrior