Time and the speed of c

[Justatruthseeker]

Now you are being foolish again. When it has come to anything in regards to science between the two of us you have always been wrong.

You have been wrong every single time and know it Zone. not once has anything you ever claimed panned out to be true.

Just like your claims on length contraction.

But I tell you what, why don't you go ask your buddies in the Physics Forum if length contraction is an actual phenomenon or just an appearance? Not scared of the answer are you?

It is not bragging to say that my small bit of college education beats your high school level understanding of science.

Got more college education that you do. I am one year short of my Bachelor's, how about you?

How am I wrong? They are speaking of an appearance of contraction. The people on the spaceship do not feel any contraction. In fact what they see is that the Earth is contracted. Tell me, just because a spaceship goes by the Earth at a high speed does that mean that you have contracted in length? Those article support my claims not yours. You simply cannot understand them. And considering how simple they are that is rather sad.

Go ask your vaulted experts on Physics Forums and send a link to the question and we will all await the answer. Or are you suddenly scared because you know the claimed experts will disagree with you? Put your money where your mouth is.

And says the guy that thinks the twins clock doesn't change because the twin never notices it, lol.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

All of mankind had to die. Adam and all of his descendants even if they were still the fruit of his loins. If man did not die then God would have to die. That is what happened: "For the joy set before Him he endured the cross, scorning its shame". This is what they call the scarlet thread because of the blood line of Adam to Jesus.

"For God loved the world so much that He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life". John3:16

2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely * speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Exactly - God gave His only-begotten son as he asked Abraham to give his only-begotten son. he did not ask Abraham to sacrifice himself nor did God who is eternal die on a cross.

"For God loved the world so much that He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life". John3:16

That son was the first and only creative act by God - all else was made through that son and for him. This is why he is the only-begotten of God - a title he carried before being sent to earth as God sent His only-begotten son, not sent Himself to be begotten.

This is why Jesus defended himself against accusations by the pharisees of claiming equality with God.

John 5:18 "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 10:32 "Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God. 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '?"

They were accusing Jesus falsely of blasphemy in order to put him to death, yet we know Jesus did not lie to them and rejected their false claims for what they were.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have been wrong every single time and know it Zone. not once has anything you ever claimed panned out to be true.

Wrong again, and I showed with your source how you were in error.

Just like your claims on length contraction.

How was I wrong about my claims on length contraction? Your own source supported me and not you.

But I tell you what, why don't you go ask your buddies in the Physics Forum if length contraction is an actual phenomenon or just an appearance? Not scared of the answer are you?

Not at all. I know that it is just an appearance. I understand relativity much better than you do. You do realize that according to the observers on the space ship that the Earth is contracted, don't you? If you deny this then you fail in a very basic concept of relativity.

Got more college education that you do. I am one year short of my Bachelor's, how about you?

Sorry, I beat you. And it is not about just college education, it is about science education. When it comes to science education you are clearly still at a high school level at best.

Go ask your vaulted experts on Physics Forums and send a link to the question and we will all await the answer. Or are you suddenly scared because you know the claimed experts will disagree with you? Put your money where your mouth is.

Not at all. But why do I even need to do this? Once again, your site agreed with me. And when you answer the question about Earth being contracted from the spaceship observers then I will ask them. After all I brought up that point first.

And says the guy that thinks the twins clock doesn't change because the twin never notices it, lol.

That is not what we claim. Sadly you have no understanding of this concept at all.

 

[The Cadet]

You have been wrong every single time and know it

Justa, if I may... This kind of thing is what keeps getting you banned at other forums. This is why you keep getting on the wrong side of the mods. Not just because your proposing unconventional ideas, not just because you may be wrong, but because you insist, with absolute certainty, that not only can you not be wrong, but everyone else knows that you're right. You call the other people in the room liars, you imply that the only reason to disagree with you is dishonesty (rather than, say, expertise in the subject, or that you might have missed something). I frequent a few other forums, and I can tell you, this wouldn't fly at any of them even if there was proof positive that you were right, and I'm kind of surprised it flies here. I got banned at the Escapist forums for calling someone who had previously admitted to lying about the subject a liar. You shouldn't be surprised when people at Cosmoquest or Physicsforum don't take kindly to this.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Exactly - God gave His only-begotten son as he asked Abraham to give his only-begotten son. he did not ask Abraham to sacrifice himself nor did God who is eternal die on a cross.

"For God loved the world so much that He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life". John3:16

That son was the first and only creative act by God - all else was made through that son and for him. This is why he is the only-begotten of God - a title he carried before being sent to earth as God sent His only-begotten son, not sent Himself to be begotten.

This is why Jesus defended himself against accusations by the pharisees of claiming equality with God.

John 5:18 "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 10:32 "Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God. 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '?"

They were accusing Jesus falsely of blasphemy in order to put him to death, yet we know Jesus did not lie to them and rejected their false claims for what they were.

We all have a plan for the way we want our sons to be. The question is what is God's plan for them. It is our job as a father to sacrifice ourself to bring up our children according to God's plan for them and not according to our plan. Sometimes you will see a parent try to live out their life through their children. They are hoping their children will accomplish what they were not able to accomplish in life.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Justa, if I may... This kind of thing is what keeps getting you banned at other forums. This is why you keep getting on the wrong side of the mods. Not just because your proposing unconventional ideas, not just because you may be wrong, but because you insist, with absolute certainty, that not only can you not be wrong, but everyone else knows that you're right. You call the other people in the room liars, you imply that the only reason to disagree with you is dishonesty (rather than, say, expertise in the subject, or that you might have missed something). I frequent a few other forums, and I can tell you, this wouldn't fly at any of them even if there was proof positive that you were right, and I'm kind of surprised it flies here. I got banned at the Escapist forums for calling someone who had previously admitted to lying about the subject a liar. You shouldn't be surprised when people at Cosmoquest or Physicsforum don't take kindly to this.

It's a simple fact. Zone has been wrong in every conversation we have ever had.

But you can't justify your position, since the only thing i did in Physics Forum is ask a simple question that challenged nothing. A question they did not want to have to answer because they don't want to have to admit thier rulers are shorter in accelerating frames and therefore do not measure the same distance. Even if anyone that understands relativity at all knows acceleration causes rulers to shrink and clocks to slow.

So if one answers the question and confirms that rulers shrink - then one can no longer claim distances are the same in both frames, which they are not.

Only an irrational person would claim rulers are shorter in the accelerating frame - and then claim the accelerating frame measures the same distance as the stationary frame. Are you an irrational person or a logical person?

Logic dictates that shorter rulers do not measure the same distance as longer rulers, but accepting the truth and admitting it will destroy your other beliefs - so I realize you are hesitant to accept the truth we both understand to be true.

But I'll make you a deal. Take a piece of paper 10 inches long and a piece of paper 7 inches long. Divide each of them equally into 10 equal divisions. Measure the distance with both to any object from the same starting point. If you come up with the same distance using both rulers I will concede all of you are correct. If you don't, you give up this foolish Fairie Dust. Agreed?????

And the real rub is you know I am right - you just don't want to admit you are wrong. I for a fact know with 100% certainty you will not obtain the same distance using the two rulers. You also know this with 100% certainty - yet are doing everything you can to avoid admitting to this. I am just wondering why???? Are you afraid where it will lead you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's a simple fact. Zone has been wrong in every conversation we have ever had.

Really? And yet you can never show it. Meanwhile I can show how you were wrong yesterday by using a source that you supplied. Why are you repeating his obviously false claim?

But you can't justify your position, since the only thing i did in Physics Forum is ask a simple question that challenged nothing. A question they did not want to have to answer because they don't want to have to admit thier rulers are shorter in accelerating frames and therefore do not measure the same distance. Even if anyone that understands relativity at all knows acceleration causes rulers to shrink and clocks to slow.

This is not true. You asked a leading and poorly formed question. Your question tried to claim that acceleration was the cause of contraction when it is velocity. Don't you even know the difference between velocity and acceleration?

So if one answers the question and confirms that rulers shrink - then one can no longer claim distances are the same in both frames, which they are not.

The question could not be answered as asked. It is similar to asking an innocent man "Have you quit beating your wife yet, answer yes or no?" He cannot honestly answer that question since it assumes an incorrect fact just as your question did.

Only an irrational person would claim rulers are shorter in the accelerating frame - and then claim the accelerating frame measures the same distance as the stationary frame. Are you an irrational person or a logical person?

See, you still can't get it right.

Logic dictates that shorter rulers do not measure the same distance as longer rulers, but accepting the truth and admitting it will destroy your other beliefs - so I realize you are hesitant to accept the truth we both understand to be true.

And you show that you do not understand what you are talking about. You have no idea what contraction is in the theory of relativity.

But I'll make you a deal. Take a piece of paper 10 inches long and a piece of paper 7 inches long. Divide each of them equally into 10 equal divisions. Measure the distance with both to any object from the same starting point. If you come up with the same distance using both rulers I will concede all of you are correct. If you don't, you give up this foolish Fairie Dust. Agreed?????

And the real rub is you know I am right - you just don't want to admit you are wrong. I for a fact know with 100% certainty you will not obtain the same distance using the two rulers. You also know this with 100% certainty - yet are doing everything you can to avoid admitting to this. I am just wondering why???? Are you afraid where it will lead you?

No, the real deal is that you ask foolish and ignorant questions where you assume something that is not true. It is the same as asking an innocent man "Have you quit beating your wife yet?"[/QUOTE]

 

[Justatruthseeker]

This is not true. You asked a leading and poorly formed question. Your question tried to claim that acceleration was the cause of contraction when it is velocity. Don't you even know the difference between velocity and acceleration?

So now you claim banning is the proper response to a poorly framed question? Is this your defense of those fakes?

And you are incorrect - velocity causes nothing - velocity only maintains what is caused by acceleration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
"It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed changes."

But I also dare you to go ask that question of physics forum and post it here - we will await that response as well. You are all talk with no science knowledge at all. But then you chickened out on asking the other question too, didn't you.


http://www.farmingdale.edu/faculty/peter-nolan/pdf/relativity/Ch07Rel.pdf

"But clearly, accelerations can be easily detected, whereas constant velocities cannot."

Velocity can not be detected - this is why relativity assumes acceleration is identical to gravity. learn your physics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So now you claim banning is the proper response to a poorly framed question? Is this your defense of those fakes?

You were rude and rather idiotic in your "question". They are not fakes. They do not suffer fools gladly at Physics Forums, now you know.

And you are incorrect - velocity causes nothing - velocity only maintains what is caused by acceleration.

Wow! More ignorance. I see that you would have failed even freshman physics at a majors level in college. You might have passed "Physics for architects", but not a real physics class.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_energy
"It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed changes."

But I also dare you to go ask that question of physics forum and post it here - we will await that response as well. You are all talk with no science knowledge at all. But then you chickened out on asking the other question too, didn't you.

Wow, you don't even understand Wikipedia.

And no, you chickened out. I asked you the question that you ducked before you dared me to go to PF. When you answer my question I will ask questions at PF for you.

http://www.farmingdale.edu/faculty/peter-nolan/pdf/relativity/Ch07Rel.pdf

"But clearly, accelerations can be easily detected, whereas constant velocities cannot."

Velocity can not be detected - this is why relativity assumes acceleration is identical to gravity. learn your physics.

And of course you did not understand that. They are talking about velocity in the spaceship. You really love to shoot yourself in the foot with articles that make your error obvious. And no velocity between two objects moving relative to each other is easily detectable. Once again they are talking about what you feel on the ship. It is amazing that you can't understand these very simple ideas.[/quote]

 

[dad]

They are talking about velocity in the spaceship. You really love to shoot yourself in the foot with articles that make your error obvious.

Correction they may be talking about the theoretical velocity of a spaceship or spaceships, with the underlying assumption being that our laws apply. Take the ships to the edge of the universe...and forget your little stories.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Correction they may be talking about the theoretical velocity of a spaceship or spaceships, with the underlying assumption being that our laws apply. Take the ships to the edge of the universe...and forget your little stories.

dad, don't be silly, there is no "edge of the universe".

 

[Murby]

Take the ships to the edge of the universe

A common misunderstanding of those who don't know much about astronomy or related areas.

There is no edge of the universe.. they've already determined that through the clever use of common mathematics.

 

[dad]

dad, don't be silly, there is no "edge of the universe".

Known universe...or maybe better stated...edge of the fishbowl!

 

[dad]

A common misunderstanding of those who don't know much about astronomy or related areas.

False. No ships could do anything far away from earth in deep space that you know about. Period. Total theory..based on earth and area laws..or fishbowl laws if you will.

There is no edge of the universe.. they've already determined that through the clever use of common mathematics.

You are in no position to know that! You merely regurgitate religious theories and foolish concepts falsely called science.

God lives above the heavens where the stars are so there IS an end to this 'universe'. End of story. You are wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Known universe...or maybe better stated...edge of the fishbowl!

There is no way to leave the known universe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

False. No ships could do anything far away from earth in deep space that you know about. Period. Total theory..based on earth and area laws..or fishbowl laws if you will.
You are in no position to know that! You merely regurgitate religious theories and foolish concepts falsely called science.

God lives above the heavens where the stars are so there IS an end to this 'universe'. End of story. You are wrong.

Actually we know quite a bit about outer space and distant galaxies etc.. You may be totally ignorant, but that does not mean that others have that problem.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

And no, you chickened out. I asked you the question that you ducked before you dared me to go to PF. When you answer my question I will ask questions at PF for you.

Your question was answered go reread posts.

But whatever excuse floats your boat from being too scared to go ask.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your question was answered go reread posts.

But whatever excuse floats your boat.

Nope, I will not reread posts. I want a clear answer. My claim, that was supported by the sites that you linked, is that there is only an apparent contraction caused by motion. My question, since you disagreed with my claim that was supported by your link, is the approaching spaceship would look contracted here on the Earth. Would the Earth look contracted to the people on the spaceship?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Nope, I will not reread posts. I want a clear answer. My claim, that was supported by the sites that you linked, is that there is only an apparent contraction caused by motion. My question, since you disagreed with my claim that was supported by your link, is the approaching spaceship would look contracted here on the Earth. Would the Earth look contracted to the people on the spaceship?

Contrary to the Fairy Tales you are told, no. We know this is a fact because the GPS clocks appear to run faster to us, but clocks on earth run slower to the GPS clocks. The GPS clocks do not see our clocks run faster as well.

This Fairie Dust is because they refuse to shrink the rulers in the spaceships frame. The exact problem you have problems understanding and the entirety of this debate. It is the spaceship that is accelerating - not the earth in this scenario. This is why even E used a stationary twin and an accelerating twin - to show it was the accelerating twin's clocks and rulers that changed due to that acceleration. IF the accelerating twin saw the stationary twin's clocks and rulers as shorter - then neither of the twin's would age differently. It would be reciprocal. But since even E understood that only the twin in the spaceship aged slower - only the twin in the spaceship was affected. The twin in the spaceship sees the stationary twins clocks tick faster and his rulers as being longer. This is how we are able to do transforms from one frame to another.

The problem is you all are refusing to shrink the accelerating twin's rulers and slow his clocks when you talk about reciprocal viewpoints and distances. The twin in the accelerating spaceship does not measure the same distance between points as the stationary twin, his ruler is shorter. You can't then violate the thought experiment by applying the effects of acceleration and velocity to the stationary twin - when only the twin in the spaceship is affected. Proven by the fact that only the twin in the spaceship ages slower - not the stationary twin as well. Or of you prefer the stationary twin ages faster if you take the accelerating twin's viewpoint, your choice.

IF it was truly reciprocal as claimed - then neither twin would age slower - since both would see the exact same thing. Their claims are falsified on their face - which is why they do not want to answer the question posed to them - because they know the answer falsifies all claims of reciprocal viewing. Don't believe for a minute I was banned for an improper phrasing of a question. I was banned because the answer would in the end falsify all claims they make and they know it.

If they claim rulers don't shrink they show their refusal to accept experimental evidence. If they admit the rulers are shorter - their claims of the distances being the same is falsified. It's a catch 22 and they know it. That simple little question puts them into a box into which they have no answer to, because either answer falsifies all their claims. This is why I was banned, because they are not stupid and see the box they are being put into - and so banning keeps them from having to answer and entering that box. Banning is the only answer they can give that preserves their Fairie Dust.

 

[dad]

There is no way to leave the known universe.

No known way...correction.