Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[ozso]

This just popped into my head, the King James translators made heavy use of the Greek manuscript compiled by Erasmus, a Catholic. The Holy Spirit did use humans to compile the Bible!

Erasmus' manuscript was a copy of copies of copies of copies, all of which were scribed by Catholics.

 

[ozso]

God just wants to spend time with His people on the day He sanctified, blessed and made holy. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, just like the other 9. We have the choice to keep or not keep. We are not saved by law-keeping we are saved by the blood of Jesus through our faith Those who have faith, have a different walk than those who don't Revelation 14:12. We can trust the scripture and its warnings or not, the choice is ours to make.

The statement of "We will just have to wait and find out, I guess. I would hate to be wrong. Revelation 22:14-15 1 John 2:4" carries a very clear and strong implication that all Christians who don't/didn't believe in sabbatarianism will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[trophy33]

I believe that is an unjust accusation. SabbathBlessongs has given scripture after scripture to back up his assertions and you've ignored them. Refute the scriptures and his reasoning instead of making ad hominem attacks. That is the Christian thing to do.

You simply do not follow all the conversations about Sabbath between us (for months), so you do not have the full picture.

 

[trophy33]

I have no misunderstandings with the laws we are to keep. Your post doesn't address anything and does what you usually do, instead of addressing the post with scripture, you just go personal. Suit yourself, this all gets sorted out soon enough.

I already provided Scriptures. You, in response, give the SDA explanation of those Scriptures, which is a dead end.

I cannot create more Scriptures to post something new.

What do you have with this "soon enough" ending you have begun to add to your posts? Has the SDA movement come up with another date of the end of the world, recently?

 

[trophy33]

but no one has yet to address the argument with scripture.

Col 2:14 is Scripture. Your explanation of it is not Scripture, so it does not need to be addressed in any specific way, its just your opinion.

 

[trophy33]

Several of the verses you repeatedly post like Col 2:14-17 actually say the opposite of what you're saying they say

This happens so frequently with the SDA verses they use... When we try to talk about a specific (for example the first) verse in their long list of verses in its context, we are given just bunch of other, mostly unrelated verses, so it never gets anywhere.

And its told to us that its "using Scripture against man's words". Smoke and mirrors.

 

[ozso]

This happens so frequently with the SDA verses they use... When we try to talk about a specific (for example the first) verse in their long list of verses in its context, we are given just bunch of other, mostly unrelated verses, so it never gets anywhere.

And its told to us that its "using Scripture against man's words". Smoke and mirrors.

I find the method ineffective towards both proselytizing and apologetics. And it makes me thankful that I was given a strong orthodox foundation when I was young.

I almost got sucked into it through listening to Armstrong on TV when I was a kid, but fortunately my older brother intervened.

 

[Valletta]

That is untrue. Read D'Abigne's 1400+ page multi-volume tome on the reformation. It took him 55 years to publish all of it from the date the date the first book of it was published to the date the last book was published. You can download it from Project Gutenberg.

Erasmus was a Protestant but a fearful one who refused to stand up and be counted.

I don't recall ever hearing the claim before that Catholic Erasmus was really a Protestant. I wonder if the author realized that Erasmus finished translating the Greek New Testament the year BEFORE the year most often attributed to the start of the Protestant Reformation?

 

[HIM]

I don't see it in Deuteronomy 30:10-14. That references the book of the law that Moses wrote, which contains the terms of the Covenant that God made with Israel when they came out of Egypt.

Romans 10:6-8 paraphrases Deut 30:10-14 which is actually the first time the New Covenant was given in respect to the Law, the word, being put in the heart of the believer that we do it. Deut 29:1. There is your proof.

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 30:10-14 - New International Reader's Version

But you must obey the LORD your God. You must keep his commands and rules. They are written in this Book of the Law. You must turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Choose Life, Not Death - What I’m commanding you today is not too hard for you. It isn’t beyond your...

www.biblegateway.com

You don't have to these post these links for me. I don't ever click on them. fyi

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Col 2:14 is Scripture. Your explanation of it is not Scripture, so it does not need to be addressed in any specific way, it’s just your opinion.

Correct Col 2:14 KJV is scripture which explains the the scripture context of Col 2:16-17 instead of relying on our own understanding which we are told not to do. Proverbs 3:5-6

 

[trophy33]

Correct Col 2:14 KJV is scripture which explains the the scripture context of Col 2:16-17 instead of relying on our own understanding which we are told not to do. Proverbs 3:5-6

Scripture:
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
BSB

You try to apply your understanding to this Scripture and argue that Sabbath here is not what you do not want it to be. In other words, you are doing what you say we are told not to do.

 

[ozso]

Correct Col 2:14 KJV is scripture which explains the the scripture context of Col 2:16-17 instead of relying on our own understanding which we are told not to do. Proverbs 3:5-6

How is it again that Col 2:13-17 commands Christians to keep the sabbath law given to the Jews?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Scripture:
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
BSB

You try to apply your understanding to this Scripture and argue that Sabbath here is not what you do not want it to be. In other words, you are doing what you say we are told not to do.

Is it your contention that finger written by God is the same as handwritten by Moses.
Holy and Blessed means cursed and contrary
Commandment and ordinances the same despite scripture saying there not. Neh 9:13

Sorry you don’t see the differences and forgive me if I don’t take your word for it over God’s Word. We have free will, but only Truth sets us free.

 

[trophy33]

Is it your contention that finger written by God is the same as handwritten by Moses.
Holy and Blessed means cursed and contrary
Commandment and ordinances the same despite scripture saying there not. Neh 9:13

Sorry you don’t see the differences and forgive me if I don’t take your word for it over God’s Word. We have free will, but only Truth sets us free.

You are adding to our conversation your prepared concepts which are not found in the text around Col 2:16-17.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How is it again that Col 2:13-17 commands Christians to keep the sabbath law given to the Jews?

Col 2:14-17 KJV is not about the Sabbath commandment as context shows is about the annual sabbath(s) ordiances Col 2:14 KJV Gods Ten Commandments are in God’s heavenly Temple under His mercy seat unedited Deut 4:2 Heb 8:5 Rev 11:19 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 so not possible for any of the Ten to have ended at the cross, plus doesn’t reconcile with the rest of scripture. Decades after the cross Acts 13:42,44, Acts 18:4 Matt 24:20- for eternity Isa 66:22-23.

 

[Gary K]

Everything that is not one of the Ten Commandments is an ordinance?

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 13:10 - New American Standard Bible 1995

Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.

www.biblegateway.com

Sorry for not answering this sooner. I somehow missed it.

Yes. Moses was given all the ceremonial laws afterwards. The 10 commandments were spoken by Jesus on Sinai in Exodus 20. The ceremonial laws were given beginning in Exodus 21. Thus they had to have been given later.

 

[trophy33]

Sorry for not answering this sooner. I somehow missed it.

Yes. Moses was given all the ceremonial laws afterwards. The 10 commandments were spoken by Jesus on Sinai in Exodus 20. The ceremonial laws were given beginning in Exodus 21. Thus they had to have been given later.

And Paul says that both commandments and ordinances were set aside.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands (ἐντολῶν) and ordinances (δόγμασιν)".
Eph 2:15

-- the Mosaic law as a whole is set aside, no dividing needed

 

[ozso]

Scripture:
Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.
These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.
BSB

You try to apply your understanding to this Scripture and argue that Sabbath here is not what you do not want it to be. In other words, you are doing what you say we are told not to do.

Apparently when Isaiah 66:23 says:

"From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord."

"Sabbath" means the 4th commandment sabbath.

But when Colossians 2:16 says:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day"

"Sabbath" does not mean the 4th commandment Sabbath.

 

[Gary K]

Erasmus' manuscript was a copy of copies of copies of copies, all of which were scribed by Catholics.

This is denied by D'Aubigne in his lifelong project The History of the 15th Century Reformation. Erasmus' translation was made directly from the Hebrew and the Greek manuscripts of the old and new testaments as he was a highly accomplished scholar in Latin, Greek and Hebrew.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And Paul says that both commandments and ordinances were set aside.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands (ἐντολῶν) and ordinances (δόγμασιν)".
Eph 2:15

-- the Mosaic law as a whole is set aside, no dividing needed

Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,