Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[ozso]

From the BDAG
βλασφημία, ας, ἡ (s. βλασφημέω; Eur., Democr., Pla.+; LXX, Philo, Joseph.; Just., A I, 26, 5; Ath. 31, 2, R.72, 27; AssMos fgm. j p. 67 Denis; loanw. in rabb.) speech that denigrates or defames, reviling, denigration, disrespect, slander
gener., of any kind of speech that is defamatory or abusive, w. other vices Mk 7:22; Eph 4:31; Col 3:8. πᾶσα β. all abusive speech Hm 8:3; cp. Mt 12:31a. Pl. (Jos., Vi. 245) Mt 15:19; 1 Ti 6:4.
specif., against humans and transcendent entities



Colossians 3:8,9 is about how we treat each other mainly but I will grant you it does say ALL.

Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all, anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Are you saying that blasphemy mentioned in Col 3:8 can not be applied to taking God's name in vain?

 

[BNR32FAN]

This would go against the very character of God. It would also make Jesus a hypocrite and goes against all of His teachings. Matthew 5:18 Luke 16:17 Jesus didn't just come here to save us from sins, He showed us how to live. 1 John 2:6

Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

If Jesus lowered the bar to make it convenient from Him and His disciples, He wouldn't be Jesus. He obeyed His Father John 15:10 and came to do His will John 6:38 so no editing of His commandments Deut 4:2. Jesus never sinned; it was an accusation that was recorded in the scripture. It's not a sin to eat on the Sabbath and those who teach Jesus broke the Sabbath like the accusation of the Pharisees, is really crucifying Him all over again.

Is man allowed to kill anyone he wants? Is God allowed to?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

No NT statements about "do not take God's name in vain" either.

1 Timothy 6:1

NT command #5. Put off blasphemy (COL 3:8)

Blasphemy is a general term and applies to things like the claim to forgive sins etc. It is not a "quote of the Ex 20:7" commandment.\
It would be like saying "keep the Commandments of God" is specifically a statement about the Sabbath commandment.

1 Tim 6:1 that you do not quote says " All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against."

There we see a command to be a good Christian slave to your non-Christian master so that they will not view Christians as a "bad thing" which indirectly is viewing Christ as bad.

That kind of general abstract - is just as much a quote of the Sabbath commandment as it is a quote of Ex 20:7 as it turns out.

 

[HIM]

Is man allowed to kill anyone he wants? Is God allowed to?

Bad example, can't kill the dead

 

[BobRyan]

Are you saying that blasphemy mentioned in Col 3:8 can not be applied to taking God's name in vain?

I am saying that to condemn the commandments of God in any way is a form of blasphemy and is not specific to any one of them. "He who breaks one - breaks them all" James 2.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The point is Mosaic Law is comprised of hundreds of commandments. James 2:10 says whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. Therefore Christians who say that Christians are sill under the law should be expected to know every jot and tittle of the law and to keep the whole law.

That’s where the inconsistency of SDA theology is revealed. If they strictly stuck to only the 10 commandments then that might be one thing but because they throw in the dietary laws as well now they’re just picking and choosing which laws to keep and which laws to disregard which makes their theology inconsistent.

 

[BobRyan]

Is man allowed to kill anyone he wants? Is God allowed to?

God can forgive sins - man cannot. But that does not mean God is destroying the Law by forgiving sins.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Bad example, can't kill the dead

Ok so by that logic man can kill all nonbelievers then since they’re dead anyways, right?

 

[BNR32FAN]

God can forgive sins - man cannot. But that does not mean God is destroying the Law by forgiving sins.

That didn’t and the question.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Most of the holy sacred things of God were done away with . The Ark of the Covenant. The Temple. The Priesthood. Many or most of His 613 Laws. God even had Moses destroy the the tablets He wrote Ten Commandments on. You can't say that God hasn't removed a lot of what He called holy and sacred at one time.

God never destroyed the Ten Commandments, Moses did when the Israelites were sinning. God re-wrote the EXACT commmandments on a second set of stone. Deut 10:4

God never removed anything He called holy. The earthy temple was an exact replica of God’s heavenly Temple Hebrews 8:5. Where there is an ark of the covenant kept in the Most Holy of God’s Temple with His eternal commandments Revelation 11:19. The earthy physical temple ended, but Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator ministering from His heavenly Temple Hebrews 4:14 Acts 7:48

Our bodies are a temple and dwelling place for the Holy Spirit which is why God writes His laws in our hearts and minds Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33. God wants us to keep our bodies holy and we do so when we walk in Christ obeying God and everything He asks of us.

Never has God done away with His holy things and you will not find one scripture stating so, but condemns those who do not distinguish holy from unholy or clean from unclean Eze 22:26

 

[HIM]

Ok so by that logic man can kill all nonbelievers then since they’re dead anyways, right?

God is the Judge of who isn't, is or will be not you or I. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. That would be?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I didn't write the scripture, this is what scripture says and its not "isolated" to the Sabbath commandment, but part of the commandments of God.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.


Again, I am not implying it is what the scriptures states. Hebrews 4:6, Hebrews 4:11 In God's rest there is no rebellion to Him but peace Isaiah 48:18, which means one is in full submission and is obedient. We are not saved by keeping the law- it is how a saved person lives Revelation 14:12, there's a difference. We all have sinned and fall short, which is why we are living in God's grace. Shall we sin because of grace- God forbid! It means No! Romans 6:1-2. We can overcome sin through the power of Jesus Christ- sin is breaking the law. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7

No just misunderstandings.

This scripture seems to be pretty clear Hebrews 4:6.....unbelif and disobedience is used interchangeable. Again, Jesus addresses this at His return Matthew 7:21-23 which is why we receive warnings if we are to believe His own Words, because He loves us and wants us to make the right choices.

Yes, which is why Jesus paid the penalty for our sins. Instead of sacrificing animals when we sin, we can now go directly to Him and pray for forgiveness when we repent. True repentance means one has a change of heart and wants to turn from sin and walk with Jesus in His Spirit in obedience to Him which He helps us to obey but it requires our efforts in cooperation with His Spirit John 14:15-18

How do you believe someone but not believe what they ask. That doesn't sound like real belief. When you believe someone, you do what they ask, not just hear it. James 1:22, Revelation 22:14 which is done through faith and love. Romans 3:31 Revelation 14:12 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

Ok so by your interpretation of 1 John 5:3 Christians don’t sin and those that do don’t love God. Do you sin?

 

[BNR32FAN]

God is the Judge of who isn't, is or will be not you or I. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. That would be?

Right so you answered my question God is not bound by the commandment He gave to Moses about committing murder, right?

 

[ozso]

BobRyan said:

No NT statements about "do not take God's name in vain" either.

Blasphemy is a general term and applies to things like the claim to forgive sins etc. It is not a "quote of the Ex 20:7" commandment.\
It would be like saying "keep the Commandments of God" is specifically a statement about the Sabbath commandment.

1 Tim 6:1 that you do not quote says " All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against."

There we see a command to be a good Christian slave to your non-Christian master so that they will not view Christians as a "bad thing" which indirectly is viewing Christ as bad.

That kind of general abstract - is just as much a quote of the Sabbath commandment as it is a quote of Ex 20:7 as it turns out.

That's not a very good translation.

Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed. 1 Timothy 6:1 The word in question is blasphémeó.

 

[HIM]

Right so you answered my question God is not bound by the commandment He gave to Moses about committing murder, right?

Murder? God would not murder. Can't kill what is dead.

 

[HIM]

That's not a very good translation.

Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed. 1 Timothy 6:1 The word in question is blasphémeó.

You would be wrong in your assessment. The translation BobRyan offered was what the word means.
Once again from the BDAG

βλασφημία, ας, ἡ (s. βλασφημέω; Eur., Democr., Pla.+; LXX, Philo, Joseph.; Just., A I, 26, 5; Ath. 31, 2, R.72, 27; AssMos fgm. j p. 67 Denis; loanw. in rabb.) speech that denigrates or defames, reviling, denigration, disrespect, slander
gener., of any kind of speech that is defamatory or abusive, w. other vices Mk 7:22; Eph 4:31; Col 3:8. πᾶσα β. all abusive speech Hm 8:3; cp. Mt 12:31a. Pl. (Jos., Vi. 245) Mt 15:19; 1 Ti 6:4.
specif., against humans and transcendent entities

 

[HIM]

BobRyan said:

No NT statements about "do not take God's name in vain" either.

Blasphemy is a general term and applies to things like the claim to forgive sins etc. It is not a "quote of the Ex 20:7" commandment.\
It would be like saying "keep the Commandments of God" is specifically a statement about the Sabbath commandment.

1 Tim 6:1 that you do not quote says " All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against."

There we see a command to be a good Christian slave to your non-Christian master so that they will not view Christians as a "bad thing" which indirectly is viewing Christ as bad.

That kind of general abstract - is just as much a quote of the Sabbath commandment as it is a quote of Ex 20:7 as it turns out.

Hey Bob happy Sabbath!
"Our" is not even implied in the clause "that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against." It should read "the doctrine" fyi.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That’s where the inconsistency of SDA theology is revealed. If they strictly stuck to only the 10 commandments then that might be one thing but because they throw in the dietary laws as well now they’re just picking and choosing which laws to keep and which laws to disregard which makes their theology inconsistent.

You have have to discuss the health laws with the Lord -doesn’t appear He changed His mind.

Isaiah 66:17 “Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one who is among those who eat the flesh of pigs,rats and other unclean things—they will meet their end together with the one they follow,” declares the Lord.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok so by your interpretation of 1 John 5:3 Christians don’t sin and those that do don’t love God. Do you sin?

I believe Christ can give all of us victory over sin, so we can stand when He comes. Scripture says it’s possible, so I believe it. Revelation 14:12 If we stumble along the way we can go directly to Jesus when we repent with a change of heart- what is dangerous is living in perpetual sin and being okay with it- no longer hearing the Holy Spirit calling us for repentance or believing we do not have to keep God’s law (sin) and that’s ok. Hebrews 10:26

 

[HIM]

That’s where the inconsistency of SDA theology is revealed. If they strictly stuck to only the 10 commandments then that might be one thing but because they throw in the dietary laws as well now they’re just picking and choosing which laws to keep and which laws to disregard which makes their theology inconsistent.

Not according to the New Covenant. And Whether one is an SDA or not is not relevant.