Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

[BNR32FAN]

Jesus always had a people who kept the commandments including the Sabbath, it's always been a remnant and still is Revelation 12:17 KJV. Thankfully God raises messengers because He has compassion for His people which sadly are usually mocked a 2 Chronicles 36:15-16 God does so to shine the light back on His Word- the Sabbath started at Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and is a commandment of God that HE wrote and spoke, regardless of human opinions. He just wants to spend time with His people on the day He set aside sanctified and blessed, yet people reject this for some strange reason and prefer to follow something that is not a commandment, no scripture to support, a day that is not holy or blessed by God, but a working day. God even warned us the change would happen Dan 7:25 and we have clear history of this happening. We can't say we were not warned.

The sabbath began at creation? Name one person who kept the Sabbath before Exodus 20.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Wrong because I gave you verses that specifically state that the sabbath and the dietary laws have been abolished as a requirement.

Again, context.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The sabbath began at creation? Name one person who kept the Sabbath before Exodus 20.

Adam and Eve. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 Man was created on the sixth day Gen 1:26 right before the first Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 that God hallowed. Please don't tell me that after God made man, that He did not spend time with them on the very first Sabbath. Sin is what separated man from God, in the New Heaven/New Earth man again with gather before the Lord for Sabbath worship Isaiah 66:22-23, we can celebrate His Sabbath now through His Spirit but once sin and sinners are gone, Sabbath worship will be back in His presence the way it was meant to be.


Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are made in the image of God to follow Him, not do our own thing.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Really? Who?

Here is a link to the Sabbath being kept throughout the centuries 1st Century | Sabbath Truth

It's always been a remnant, just like in scripture, it was not the majority of people who were following Jesus- there was so much evil in the world God made a flood to wipe out everyone except for the 8 people who believed. We are told the Second Coming will be like the days of Noah. We are also warned the devil deceives the whole world Revelation 12:9 our only counter to this is through God's Word. Psalms 119:105 The Sabbath commandment never ended at the cross, what ended was the ceremonial sabbath(s) ordinances Col 2:14-17 KJV Heb 10:1-10 as they all pointed to Jesus who became our sacrifice for sins - sin is defined the same way as it always as been as breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 There is no scripture in the entire bible that says the Sabbath commandment was abrogated, this is a teaching of man that is leading people away from keeping one of God's commandments. It is not God who does not want His people to spend time with Him on the day He set aside for man to have communion with on His holy and blessed day, but His adversary Revelation 12:17. God is calling His people out of Babylon before its too late. Rev 18:4

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, context.

Well that was an easy dismissal.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Adam and Eve. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 Man was created on the sixth day Gen 1:26 right before the first Sabbath Genesis 2:1-3 that God hallowed. Please don't tell me that after God made man, that He did not spend time with them on the very first Sabbath. Sin is what separated man from God, in the New Heaven/New Earth man again with gather before the Lord for Sabbath worship Isaiah 66:22-23, we can celebrate His Sabbath now through His Spirit but once sin and sinners are gone, Sabbath worship will be back in His presence the way it was meant to be.


Exodus 20: 8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We are made in the image of God to follow Him, not do our own thing.

You didn’t answer the question, name one person who kept the sabbath before Exodus 20.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well that was an easy dismissal.

It is. The Ten Commandments is in God's heavenly Temple, which He spoke and He wrote and the earthy temple was modeled after Hebrews 8:5 Revelation 11:19 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 so not possible that one or any of these commandments ended, ever. So if one were to study the true context of Col 2:14-17 KJV and Romans 14 would easily see its not referring the one of God's eternal commandments, plus the Sabbath was kept decades after the cross and will be kept in heaven, but people disregard the context.

1 Tim 2: 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Truth is powerful. All of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and we are only sanctified by the Truth of God's Word. John 17:17

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You didn’t answer the question, name one person who kept the sabbath before Exodus 20.

I did, answered it clearly, but apparently did not like the answer, which is your free will.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Sabbath commandment never ended at the cross, what ended was the ceremonial sabbath(s) ordinances

This is just a claim with nothing to support it. Paul used the word sabbaths plural, he gave no indication that any of the sabbaths were still to be observed. Paul said the sabbaths have ended and you say they haven’t. You’re pulling that out of thin air with no scripture to support it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is just a claim with nothing to support it. Paul used the word sabbaths plural, he gave no indication that any of the sabbaths were still to be observed. Paul said the sabbaths have ended and you say they haven’t. You’re pulling that out of thin air with no scripture to support it.

It's actually the opposite, there is no scripture to support the weekly Sabbath being abrogated. The weekly Sabbath is not an ordinance it is a commandment, Exodus 32:16 Deut 4:13 the annuals sabbath(s) are ordinances Num 9:12 the weekly Sabbath is not contrary or against us, it is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11 Genesis 2:1-3 , the weekly Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 32:16 not handwritten by Moses. Exodus 20:8-11, Genesis 2:1-3 Exodus 32:16 Context doesn't work.

God blessed the Sabbath and once God blesses something it cannot be reversed Num 23:20 so could never be contrary or against us, like the rest of God's commandments 1 John 5:3. It was kept after the cross, Jesus would indicate it would be kept along after His resurrection for His people and its kept for eternity Isaiah 66:22-23.

Anyway we have free will to believe what you want, but the context does not lie and no one who ever quotes Col 2:16 ever backs up to Col 2:14 KJV. I can give you an in-depth study of Col 2:14-17 KJV if interested.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's actually the opposite, there is no scripture to support the weekly Sabbath being abrogated.

There is, I’ve posted them, and you’re just refusing to accept what Paul wrote.

The weekly Sabbath is not an ordinance it is a commandment

Can you please name one sabbath that was not a commandment of God? All of the feasts and holy days were commanded by God. Every single one of them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

and no one who ever quotes Col 2:16 ever backs up to Col 2:14 KJV. I can give you an in-depth study of Col 2:14-17 KJV if interested.

I just did in the post right above this one. Name one sabbath that was not a commandment of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is, I’ve posted them, and you’re just refusing to accept what Paul wrote.

Can you please name one sabbath that was not a commandment of God? All of the feasts and holy days were commanded by God. Every single one of them.

The annual sabbath(s) feast days were not one of the Ten Commandments, they were ordinances....Exodus 12:43 Ezekiel 43:18

The Ten Commandments are found here Exodus 20 and here's the Sabbath commandment for your reference spoken personally by our Father, personally written by His own finger.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Not one mention of food or drink or sacrifices in the Ten Commandment. The weekly Sabbath came before sin at Creation Genesis 2:1-3, the annual sabbath(s) was added because of sin which all pointed to Jesus. The weekly Sabbath points back to Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep it holy because it is a memorial of Creation and we honor Him when we keep the Sabbath day holy Isaiah 58:13 The annual sabbath(s) point forward to the cross. Col 2:14-17 Heb 10:1-10


Col 2:14 KJV
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Col 2:14 KJV
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18 Exodus 32:16
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11 Genesis 2:1-3

What Colossians 2:14 is referring to:

1. They are ordinances that have to do with sacrifices

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:
Ezekiel 43:18 And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

2. They were handwritten
2 Chronicles 33:8 Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.
Deuteronomy 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished,

3. They were contrary
Deuteronomy 31:26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


Its very clear this passage is referring to the blood sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins which pointed to Jesus as He became our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification when we turn from sin (breaking God's law 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7) and turn to Christ and walk in obedience to Him. John 14:15

Hebrews 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins., but the blood of Jesus can cleanse us of all sin. 1 John 1:9

Look familiar? Colossians 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Christ became our Passover Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins. 1 Corinthians 5:7 It has nothing to do with the weekly Sabbath which is one of God's eternal commandments written by God's own finger, spoke by God's own voice which God placed together and no man can separate as it resides in God's heavenly kingdom Revelation 11:19.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The annual sabbath(s) feast days were not one of the Ten Commandments, they were ordinances....Exodus 12:43 Ezekiel 43:18

The Ten Commandments are found here Exodus 20 and here's the Sabbath commandment for your reference spoken personally by our Father, personally written by His own finger.

A commandment of God is a commandment of God whether it be one of the 10 commandments or not. That’s completely irrelevant. When Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge there was only one commandment. They didn’t break any of the Ten Commandments yet their transgression led to the fall of man. Every commandment of God is equally significant and every one of them can also be abolished if He decrees it. Paul specifically told us that the sabbaths were no longer in effect and you say that is incorrect based on human reasoning, not scripture. Paul made no exclusions or exceptions in his statement. You keep using Jesus’ example for us to follow but if you follow Jesus’ example you’ll have to follow the entire law including the ordinances that you say have ended. If we follow Jesus’ example then nothing has changed and we’re still in the old Covenant. If we follow His example then we would have to keep the entire law just as He did which would include circumcision, observing the Passover, and all of the feasts, new moon and sabbath rituals.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

A commandment of God is a commandment of God whether it be one of the 10 commandments or not. That’s completely irrelevant.

Scripture seems to make a point that not everything is a commandment, I personally do not find scripture irrelevant.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

When Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge there was only one commandment. They didn’t break any of the Ten Commandments yet their transgression led to the fall of man.

Adam and Eve broke all the Ten commandments by eating from the tree of knowledge...just think about it and prayerfully read the Ten Commandments- the Ten Commandments are much more than literal, they broke the literal of many of them for example- do not covet- Eve coveted when she saw the fruit was pleasant to the eyes, she broke commandment #1 when she believed the "other spirit" over God, she broke commandment #8 when she stole something that was not hers, she broke the Sabbath commandment when she became rebellious against God's rest (the Sabbath has a literal meaning and a Spiritual meaning, just like all of the commandments- disobeying God is not resting in His Word- His rest there is no rebellion- including Sabbath-keeping) Adam & Eve did not honor their Father, by disobeying what their Father asked..... I could keep going - Adam and Eve broke every single one of the Ten Commandments by disobeying God and sadly, people think they can continue doing this and not be in rebellion to God- which is why God pleas with us- Today if you hear His voice Hebrews 3:15, Psalms 95:7-8

Every commandment of God is equally significant and every one of them can also be abolished if He decrees it.

God wrote and God spoke the Ten Commandments and is in His holy Temple Revelation 11:19, this is God's eternal moral law and there is no scripture stating that we can break any of His commandments. Man does not have authority over God and Jesus warns us to not keep man's traditions over the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten that God placed together that no man can separate. Exodus 32:16

Paul specifically told us that the sabbaths were no longer in effect and you say that is incorrect based on human reasoning, not scripture. Paul made no exclusions or exceptions in his statement.

Paul does not have the authority to change one of God's moral commandments, nor would he as Paul kept the commandments, told us to 1 Cor 7:19 including Sabbath-keeping which he kept every Sabbath decades after Jesus ascended back to heaven.

You keep using Jesus’ example for us to follow but if you follow Jesus’ example you’ll have to follow the entire law including the ordinances that you say have ended.

You seem to be contradicting yourself- now you're admitting the sabbath(s) being referred to is not a commandment but an ordinance- agreed.

Why would one sacrifice animals when Jesus became our Sacrificial Lamb and can cleanse us from all sin when we repent and turn to Him? We have clear scripture we no longer need to sacrifice animals Col 2:14-17, Hebrews 10:1-22 because Jesus became our Sacrifice, there is no scripture that says we can break one of the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath commandment which is what is defined as sin when broken Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12. Scripture tells us the Sabbath remains for the people of God Hebrews 4:9 NIV which the Greek word in this scripture literally translates into Sabbath-keeping.

If we follow Jesus’ example then nothing has changed and we’re still in the old Covenant.

Only if one is not following scripture, some things changed- Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and is our Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin instead of sacrificing animals. Some things has not changed, like the law of God written in the heart and mind Hebrews 8:10 Jer 31:33 Is thou shalt not murder not applicable? Only worshipping God no longer applicable. The only commandment people take issue with is the Sabbath commandment for some reason, the one commandment God said "Remember" the one commandment that God said is holy and blessed, the one commandment where God sets aside holy time with us, yet that's the one commandment people want to forget. Honestly, its very sad how many people miss out on the blessing God is trying to give to His people. Isaiah 58:13-14. We are known by our obedience to God 1 John 2:3-5 and we only "know" someone by spending time them and that's what God's wants- time with His children on the day HE set aside- sanctified and blessed for holy use.

If we follow His example then we would have to keep the entire law just as He did which would include circumcision, observing the Passover, and all of the feasts, new moon and sabbath rituals.

Perhaps these scriptures will help.....

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Seems pretty clear to me. The weekly Sabbath is a commandment of God.

1 Cor 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch – as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. All the sacrifical ordinances pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb.

Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover:

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

If we follow scripture, we will keep on the narrow path- I think we need to be careful by not inserting our will and ideas in scripture, it becomes a danger zone Isaiah 8:20

Anyway, I share these scriptures out of love. Only the Truth sets us free but we are given free will to test any theory we want. I wish you well in seeking Truth to His Word.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not one mention of food or drink or sacrifices in the Ten Commandment. The weekly Sabbath came before sin at Creation Genesis 2:1-3, the annual sabbath(s) was added because of sin which all pointed to Jesus.

What annual sabbath was added because of sin? The Passover? The feast of unleavened bread? Can you list the ones that were a result of sin? I’m not seeing any of them being added because of sin. I only see one of them even requiring a sin offering in Leviticus 23. Where are you getting this idea that these annual sabbaths were added because of sin?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What annual sabbath was added because of sin? The Passover? The feast of unleavened bread? Can you list the ones that were a result of sin? I’m not seeing any of them being added because of sin. I only see one of them even requiring a sin offering in Leviticus 23. Where are you getting this idea that these annual sabbaths were added because of sin?

What is the purpose of sacrifices? Read Lev 4

The sacrificial system was for the forgiveness of sins- Hebrews 9:22. which all pointed to Jesus, who became our Sacrificial Lamb.

There were no animal sacrifices in the Garden of Eden because there was no sin until Adam and Eve disobeyed God and sinned, which separated them from the presence of God and they were thrown out of the Garden. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 and where there is no law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 which is why God's law always existed. Revelation 11:19 Animal sacrifices was only added because Adam and Eve transgressed God's law. If we look and Cain and Abel, one made a sacrifice the way God asked, the other the way he wanted- God only accepted one and the other marked by God- there is lots to learn from that story.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What is the purpose of sacrifices? Read Lev 4

The sacrificial system was for the forgiveness of sins- Hebrews 9:22. which all pointed to Jesus, who became our Sacrificial Lamb.

There were no animal sacrifices in the Garden of Eden because there was no sin until Adam and Eve disobeyed God and sinned, which separated them from the presence of God and they were thrown out of the Garden. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 and where there is no law, there is no transgression Romans 4:15 which is why God's law always existed. Revelation 11:19 Animal sacrifices was only added because Adam and Eve transgressed God's law. If we look and Cain and Abel, one made a sacrifice the way God asked, the other the way he wanted- God only accepted one and the other marked by God- there is lots to learn from that story.

That’s not true, there were sacrifices made as an offering to God. Sin offerings were specifically called sin offerings like the ones mentioned in Leviticus 4.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

That’s not true, there were sacrifices made as an offering to God. Sin offerings were specifically called sin offerings like the ones mentioned in Leviticus 4.

Animal sacrifices were for the forgiveness of sins Hebrews 9:22 a way to purify oneself from sins, which all pointed to Jesus who became our sacrificial Lamb and why we no longer need to sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins we can go directly to Him. The lambs in the Passovers all represented Jesus, which is why they needed to be without blemish.


Numb 9:13 But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and ceases to keep the Passover, that same person shall be cut off from among his people, because he did not bring the offering of the Lord at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin.

2 Cor 30:17 For there were many in the assembly who had not sanctified themselves; therefore the Levites had charge of the slaughter of the Passover lambs for everyone who was not clean, to sanctify them to the Lord.

John 11:55 And the Passover of the Jews was near, and many went from the country up to Jerusalem before the Passover, to purify themselves.

 

[BobRyan]

What annual sabbath was added because of sin? The Passover? The feast of unleavened bread? Can you list the ones that were a result of sin?

all of them were based in animal sacrifices that were specific to solving the sin problem