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Thunder Lauriston lecture on "Why Sunday worship cannot be the Mark of the Beast"

Gary K

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I have no problem moving our discussion there. That was where I suggested moving it. I just see no no need to derail another thread by inserting an ongoing discussion which will probably go on for some time.

As I understand forum rules for every denomination specific forum have the same rule. This isn't SDAs being unwilling to discuss our beliefs with those who disagree with us. Like I have said before there will not be a a problem as long as the discussion is respectful as it is now. I've seen quite a few discussions there over the years started by non SDAs questioning our beliefs and not a one was ever removed or anyone punished that I know of as long as it was done respectully. In fact there is an existing one started by what appears to be a non Christian that several of us have participated in that is about the Sabbath.
 
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Gary K

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I don't really understand your point. If I reprove someone for their behavior and it is justified how is that a personal attack?
 
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Gary K

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I disagree with your premise that the church follows RxF. Here is my main argument. If we didn't reject RxF and drift away from our first love for Jesus why are we still here? Ellen White told us Jesus could have come before her death, twice, if the church as a whole would have loved Jesus with all our heart, soul and mind. Here we are well over a hundred years after she told us this still on planet earth living on a planet dedicated to sin.

It isn't a cold heartless judgment on my part but the reading of the evidence. I know of entire SDA churches, large ones, that don't even live by our standards and have gone woke and teach emerging church heresy. Our institutions of higher learning have in large part stopped teaching our Biblical theology too. Our small local church has an elder that is a socialist which political ideology is anti god at its very heart and our pastor is a speaker at Project One events. We have conferences that have banned Doug Batchelor from speaking in them and our GC president refuses to support religious liberty in that he refuses to support members who chose not to get vaccinated. We also have conferences that have fired every pastor who would not get vaccinated. Somehow I thought our bodies are the temple of God not the government's. What is wrong in trusting in God's promises such as Psalm 91 rather than trusting in man and his ideas? When our GC president and entire conferences have that little trust in God our church is in serious trouble spiritually.
 
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Gary K

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Only if that's what's being done. Is this a situation where you talked about you personally looking up some scripture, and I was viewing it as a corporate thing, so when I talk about it, it seems to you that I'm attacking you personally?
Sorry. I misread your post the first time. I do not think you attacked me personally. It just seemed to me that we had come to some sort of understanding about the new covenant and then you suddenly seemed to reverse your position again. It confused me and made me wonder what you were up to.
 
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Gary K

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It wouldn't be off topic. That thread is about Ellen White's writings
Sorry but I simply don't understand your comment. Where have I or other SDAs brought up Ellen White in this thread? It's as if you believe that everything SDAs believe is beaten into our heads through brainwashing. Ellen White is not the foundation for SDA beliefs.

I grew up in a disfunctional SDA family and was abused badly. My dad misunderstood some things she wrote because he never learned to speak English until he started school and because he only had an 8th grade education. If anyone has a reason to reject her writings, I do. I don't because I have studied the doctrines out from scripture and have never found her writings to not be scriptural.
 
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Leaf473

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Okay... Are we both on the same page that the traditional Adventist section is not part of the denomination specific section? That's why you can critically examine adventism in the DST, but not in the traditional adventism section? At least, that's how I remember it

What is it that we wanted to discuss about SDA beliefs? I don't remember anymore
 
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Leaf473

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Well, because generally speaking, in discussions about adventism Ellen White is likely to come up sooner or later. So, we could resolve the level of inspiration of her writings in that thread. It would probably give us a good springboard to move on
 
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Leaf473

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Then why the comment asking me if I was sure what was in the chapter as relates to Ahab and Jehoshaphat?
If I remember right, it's because you had called Jehoshaphat the king of Israel. Once the kingdom divided, the northern kingdom is referred to as Israel and the southern as Judah. No, not exclusively, but generally speaking when it comes to the names of the kings. So Jehoshaphat is called the king of Judah.

You also brought up the part about 186,000 Assyrians being slain in Jehoshaphat's days. I'm pretty sure it was Hezekiah.

That's why I was asking you if you were sure about those things. Maybe you were aware of a passage I didn't know about
 
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Servus

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I'm used to debating SDA theology a certain way with certain people.
 
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Servus

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SDA members here I talk to thoroughly avoid bringing up EGW, but her writings bleed through their posts. Also they only seem to be able to discuss theology within the perimeters of SDA theology as they present it. When asked questions outside of that box, they appear unable to give an answer. Often instead of the discussion progressing, they'll reply with something virtually identical to what they posted earlier in the discussion, taking it back to square one, which also demonstrates having a limited range. So that is why one might conclude that what SDAs believe "is beaten into their heads through brainwashing" as you put it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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These are two different arguments. You stated the SDA church doesn’t believe in righteousness by faith and the evidence I provided proves otherwise. The bigger question is why would one want to be part of an organization that you claim no longer loves Jesus. Wow. I don’t think I would ever say that about any church yet alone the church I claim I am a member of.. Only God knows and can judge the heart. I think we need to trust Him on this and leave His judgement to Him.
Our GC president was just at Pastor Bachelor’s church and I can almost guarantee you Pastor Doug does not share your same sentiments about Pastor Wilson, he refers to him as his friend and I know Pastor Doug does not share your thoughts on the SDA church, otherwise he would do the respectable thing and resign which he has discussed in his sermons and said over and over the SDA church best reflects his views on doctrine. You are looking at things from your critical view similar to what you did to me about my definition of the purpose of the Sabbath but when I pushed back and asked what was yours, it was almost identical to mine, I guess it sounds better when its coming from you. Seems like its easier to point fingers, but for me I could never be part of an organization that I am so critical of, I would want to move on. Have you ever discussed your concerns with your Pastor?

My aunt is very critical of Pastor Doug. She wanted to recreate their music department. I love my aunt immensely but she is very worldly, does not attend or rarely attends church, out in bars with her band on Sabbath evenings and Pastor Doug had every right to protect the flock but instead of my aunt seeing it from this view, she too condemns the SDA church. It happens, I am sure in every church

I was happy to step aside to let you step in since you said you are a better teacher, but I may jump in here or there to give another perspective of the Adventist view.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I have never read an EGW book. I just started reading the Great Controversy not even on chapter 2 yet because I spend most of my time reading the Bible from cover to cover. The Spirit will teach us all Truth and sometimes when I read a scripture and reflect on it and come to an understanding, I always find it amazing to hear that same view from a sermon I listen to later. There’s only one Truth to scripture so you will find similar answers to that one Truth. You ask a Sunday keeping church why they don’t keep the 4th commandment and you will get a variety of different answers.
 
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Gary K

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You misunderstood my comment as I was not clear what I meant. I said what I did because you posted the link to the traditional Adventist forum. I spent more time once again explaining why it would not be problematic to discuss SDA beliefs there.

You're the one who brought up Ellen White and made all the SDA comments in this thread about her.when they are about scripture and have nothing to do with her other than she taught scriptural truths.
 
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Gary K

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I'm sorry but you did not prove anything. Head knowledge of theology will never change our hearts. Only the personal application of scripture to the heart changes lives by the prayerful request that God change our hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. I'll give you a couple of quotes from Ellen White that demonstrate my point.


Do you keep the law of God like Jesus did? If not then your heart has not been changed according to the promises of scripture and Ellen Whites writings. I still fall occassionaly but I've only been applying this to myself every morning in prayer on a very personal level for about 3 months and I can tell you that the difference in my life is like night and day

Here are a couple of promises from scripture.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:


This is what righteousness by faith is all about. It's about living yhe same kind of life Jesus lived.
 
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Gary K

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That is your assumption. I can say a very similar thing about your beliefs. You allow theologians to shape your beliefs so you read into scrptire what they have taught you to believe about it.
 

Gary K

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I think you need to reread my post as one my comments was about Jehoshaphat offering to help Ahab in his war with the Syrians.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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This is what righteousness by faith is all about. It's about living yhe same kind of life Jesus lived.
We must belong to different denominations then, even though we both claim to be SDA’s. The SDA church that I belong to believes that Jesus is on every page. Jesus is the only way. Jesus not only came to save us from our sins, but showed us the perfect example of how to live. I am sorry if your church doesn’t teach you these things, but my church is full of teaching us to be more like Jesus.
 
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Gary K

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Yeah, right. I gave you quotes from Ellen White and Bible verses that tell you exactly the opposite of what you're claiming. I'm really sorry you believe that because I've never seen any indication that you're dishonest.
 
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Gary K

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I have a question that has to do with the forum software that I don't know the answer to and have never seen before in 20+ years of forum posting. When I last logged in and opened up the menu for achievements, my content, etc... there was a message that one of my posts in this thread was voted for. Anyone know what that means and how I can find that post?