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Ah so they're applied to all the sunday Christians then.
I'm just discussing denominational doctrine.Did you imagine that you could make me mad and thus make a hypocrite out of me? Sorry, but it won't work because Jesus is so much greater than the devil? He loves both of us enough to die for us when we were still His enemies so how can I be angry with or dislike anyone He died for? You're my brother in Christ.
How does that have anything to do with Moses' prophecies about God punishing the the Israelites for disobeying them? Explain exactly what you're talking about. What denominational doctrine, specifically?I'm just discussing denominational doctrine.
It seems to me that when a remnant is spoken of in scripture, that's interpreted in SDA doctrine as pertaining to Christian sabbitarians. Usually Revelation 12:17 is used as the proof text for that, but I've seen OT verses used as well. Like you said, it's a matter of doing a word search for "remnant" and then choosing whichever verses that can be used as proof texts to support a doctrine. Especially a doctrine that says everyone else is in serious error and or under Satan's spell regarding what's supposed to be a critical matter that doctrine is founded upon. Like say the group that says the only Christians who are truly baptized, are the ones who were baptized in the name of Jesus only.How does that have anything to do with Moses' prophecies about God punishing the the Israelites for disobeying them? Explain exactly what you're talking about. What denominational doctrine, specifically?
***grins***It seems to me that when a remnant is spoken of in scripture, that's interpreted in SDA doctrine as pertaining to Christian sabbitarians. Usually Revelation 12:17 is used as the proof text for that, but I've seen OT verses used as well. Like you said, it's a matter of doing a word search for "remnant" and then choosing whichever verses that can be used as proof texts to support a doctrine. Especially a doctrine that says everyone else is in serious error and or under Satan's spell regarding what's supposed to be a critical matter that doctrine is founded upon. Like say the group that says the only Christians who are truly baptized, are the ones who were baptized in the name of Jesus only.
Only if that's what's being done. Is this a situation where you talked about you personally looking up some scripture, and I was viewing it as a corporate thing, so when I talk about it, it seems to you that I'm attacking you personally?***grins***
I see. So looking up the word remnant in the OT for fulfillment of Moses' prophecies is searching for something to do with the new covenant? Interesting reasoning you're using..
When have I ever made a personal attack on you or anyone else that disagrees with me here?Only if that's what's being done. Is this a situation where you talked about you personally looking up some scripture, and I was viewing it as a corporate thing, so when I talk about it, it seems to you that I'm attacking you personally?
Is that based on an eisegesis of Revelation 12:17?
Nowhere that I can remember. Personal attacks are against forum rules. But they are not always un-loving therefore un-Christian. Sometimes they are warranted and need stated. And sometimes what is perceived as an attack isn't. But they are against forum rules. So if we do we must suffer the consequences.When have I ever made a personal attack on you or anyone else that disagrees with me here?
I don't remember the time or thread title. I haven't spent a lot of time there. Why go and do things that are clearly against the rules?When and why? I would say it was because the non Adventist people were being rude. I've even complained about that, but not to moderators.
I have read it. Jehoshaphat is the king of Judah, Ahab is the king of Israel.So you didn't read the chapter. Why not?
Good golly there's a miscommunication situation going on. I was thinking maybe you thought I was attacking you, not the other way around.When have I ever made a personal attack on you or anyone else that disagrees with me here?
There's two ways to view scripture like that.No it is based on the history of God's people as recorded in the OT. Due to stiff necks and hard hearts it has only been a small few in any given time throughout history out of those who profess.
And there is Jesus' own words also.
Matt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. KJV
Matt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. KJV
Matt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. KJV
Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, KJV
Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. KJV
Rev 12:17 is an interesting text though. What do you see? Remnant means remaining ones by the way.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. KJV
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. KJV
Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. KJV
When and why? I would say it was because the non Adventist people were being rude. I've even complained about that, but not to moderators.
As a follow-up, here's what I'm talking about.Why the resistance to talking about SDA things in a place designed to examine them critically?
I find this post really disappointing for a few reasons. You seem to be condemning 22 million people that you claim drifted away from its first love with Jesus is judging 22 million people that you do not know. Only Jesus knows the hearts of all people so we need to leave the judging with Christ. The second reason this is disappointing is you claim to be representing the SDA church yet, you seem to condemn it more than support. I already offered a link to the official beliefs, because I have seen too many people who claim to be SDA, but yet have their own doctrine, which essentially makes one a false witness. What separates denominations is doctrine and personally I would not be associated with a denomination if I thought it drifted away from loving Jesus, what would that say about me. My experience for the most part in the SDA church has been finding loving people who love Jesus and seek Him fully and seek His Truth. Are there bad apples in every denomination and in every congregation, yes, we are warned those who claim to be part of our organization will do the most harm.No. What you will find is that many SDA's are well versed in scripture. In fact, we used to be known as "the people of the book" until the denomination began to drift away from it's first love with Jesus.
"There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics “adore statues”; because they “put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God”; because they say “indulgence is a permission to commit sin”; because the Pope “is a Fascist”; because the “Church is the defender of Capitalism.” If the Church taught or believed any one of these things it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do."I have another book on the subject of the corruption of the RCC. This was written by a Scottish minister in the 1800s and traces out the origins of the RCCs theological roots. This is the most thoroughly documented book I have ever read on the origins of paganism.
Here is a link to a free pdf download.
To me what's important is what Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and Protestants denominations believe and teach about Christ. My guess is if you and I just talked about what we believe about Christ, we would be in agreement."There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church — which is, of course, quite a different thing. These millions can hardly be blamed for hating Catholics because Catholics “adore statues”; because they “put the Blessed Mother on the same level with God”; because they say “indulgence is a permission to commit sin”; because the Pope “is a Fascist”; because the “Church is the defender of Capitalism.” If the Church taught or believed any one of these things it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them. It follows then that the hatred of the millions is directed against error and not against truth. As a matter of fact, if we Catholics believed all of the untruths and lies which were said against the Church, we probably would hate the Church a thousand times more than they do."
Bishop Fulton Sheen
As to what Catholics really believe, here is a link: Catechism of the Catholic Church
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