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Three Questions Relative to the 4th Commandment

GDL

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A lot of GDL's confusion would be cleared up by actually reading the New Covenant as it is stated in scripture in Jer 31:31-34 and then quoted again verbatim in Heb 8:6-12.

Paying attention to the actual details in the New Covenant clears up - a lot of differences and confusion
Funny.

When you and @Doran end discussion about things like 1Cor7:19, maybe we'll discuss confusion. In preparation, you may find helpful a combined search in a decent English translation on "command*" + "God*". It actually provides insight into how phrases like God's Commandments are wider in scope than some narrowly use it.

Bait taken. Bait spit out. No real interest in it at this time.
 
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GDL

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The law was given "only" to show Israel their sins. Those who persist in following the Law Today, they should come to their senses of their sins, and turn to the Law of Christ to be saved.
As you say, they should. But they don't or they try to have both.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Funny.

When you and @Doran end discussion about things like 1Cor7:19, maybe we'll discuss confusion. In preparation, you may find helpful a combined search in a decent English translation on "command*" + "God*". It actually provides insight into how phrases like God's Commandments are wider in scope than some narrowly use it.

Bait taken. Bait spit out. No real interest in it at this time.
Yes, many do have a narrow focus because God's commandments include the Sabbath commandment, that man tries to downsize the 10 commandments, to 9, when God didn't- teaching to forget the one commandment God said Remember. The only commandments God wrote and God spoke and added no more and are inside the ark all Ten. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18, Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 All other laws were written by man and are outside the ark. In the days of Noah, you wanted to be inside the ark. :)
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Funny.

When you and @Doran end discussion about things like 1Cor7:19, maybe we'll discuss confusion. In preparation, you may find helpful a combined search in a decent English translation on "command*" + "God*". It actually provides insight into how phrases like God's Commandments are wider in scope than some narrowly use it.

Bait taken. Bait spit out. No real interest in it at this time.
I forgot to comment on this part.

The Ten Commandments is not ‘a command‘ collectively they are a unit of Ten and are commandments Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18, Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

So when we see this repeated in scripture we do not need to guess what it includes since God defined it for us.
 
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Doran

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A lot of GDL's confusion would be cleared up by actually reading the New Covenant as it is stated in scripture in Jer 31:31-34 and then quoted again verbatim in Heb 8:6-12.

Paying attention to the actual details in the New Covenant clears up - a lot of differences and confusion
You should take your own advice. For one, you can start by NOT READING into the text what isn't there, Where in the text does it say the ten words will be written on the hearts of all God's people? For your into, there's a lot more to Natural Law (the law that is written into all men's hearts (Rom 2:14-15) than just the ten commandments.

Also, you might want to consider investing a considerable amount of time learning all the ways the New Covenant is UNLIKE the Old. And learning all the ways the New is BETTER than the Old. When you do all that then come back here and tell us everything you have learned.

One of the biggest errors that many Christians make (which largely is the fault of many churches, as well) is not understanding the two most important covenants in redemptive history and how they relate to one another, what the elements of continuity and discontinuity are between the two covenants , how the Old points to the New, how the New fulfills ALL the OT promises, and how the Old is fully revealed in the New and the New is concealed in the Old. When you think you have a pretty good handles on all these different aspects to the covenants, be sure to come back and share all your insights because understanding the covenants rightly is THE KEY to understanding biblical theology and redemptive history. It's the key to growing in true knowledge of God and his grace.
 
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Doran

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Yes, many do have a narrow focus because God's commandments include the Sabbath commandment, that man tries to downsize the 10 commandments, to 9, when God didn't- teaching to forget the one commandment God said Remember. The only commandments God wrote and God spoke and added no more and are inside the ark all Ten. Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18, Deut 4:13, Exo 34:28 Deut 5:22 All other laws were written by man and are outside the ark. In the days of Noah, you wanted to be inside the ark. :)
Some of us "downsize" because the 4th commandment is nowhere repeated in the NT, regardless of your misinterpretation of Hebrews 4, nor is the 4th commandment ever listed in any of the NT litany of sins that could jeopardize one's salvation, and because of the three main NT passages that diminish or even discount the importance of keeping any Jewish religious days, including the weekly sabbath.

Meanwhile, all you sabbatarians have going for you is very poor exegesis skills, an overabundance of eisegesis skills,lots of wishful thinking and virtually little or no true knowledge of the the two big redemptive covenants and their relationship to one another.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Some of us "downsize" because the 4th commandment is nowhere repeated in the NT, regardless of your misinterpretation of Hebrews 4, nor is the 4th commandment ever listed in any of the NT litany of sins that could jeopardize one's salvation, and because of the three main NT passages that diminish or even discount the importance of keeping any Jewish religious days, including the weekly sabbath.

Meanwhile, all you sabbatarians have going for you is very poor exegesis skills, an overabundance of eisegesis skills,lots of wishful thinking and virtually little or no true knowledge of the the two big redemptive covenants and their relationship to one another.
Seems like a lot of accusations without much substance. In order to make your argument you would first need one scripture that says we do not need to keep the commandments of God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God regardless of one's objection to it,

The Sabbath certainly didn't disappear as one of God's commandments in the NT, kept faithfully by Jesus, His followers and disciples.

We will have to wait and see about God's holy Sabbath if God meant what He said when He said Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy Exo 20:8- man says to forget. Jesus tells us to live by every Word - my faith is in Him.
 
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Doran

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Seems like a lot of accusations without much substance. In order to make your argument you would first need one scripture that says we do not need to keep the commandments of God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God regardless of one's objection to it,

The Sabbath certainly didn't disappear as one of God's commandments in the NT, kept faithfully by Jesus, His followers and disciples.

We will have to wait and see about God's holy Sabbath if God meant what He said when He said Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy Exo 20:8- man says to forget. Jesus tells us to live by every Word - my faith is in Him.
Two things: I never said "we do not need to keep the commandments of God". That is your own personal erroneous conclusion to my biblical belief that New Covenant believers are not "under law". Like Paul I believe Christians are under the Law of Christ and that the NT informs us what that Law is.

And the sabbath WAS a commandment of God in the Mosaic Law Covenant that was made only with the Jews. Show us from scripture when God brought the Gentile nations into that covenant.

Permit me to encourage you by kick-starting your search for such a proof text, albeit in vain:

Deut 4:8
8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before YOU today?
NIV

And,

Deut 18:14
14 The nations YOU will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for YOU, the LORD your God has not permitted YOU to do so.
NIV

And,

Deut 31:16
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. THEY will forsake me and break the covenant I made with THEM.
NIV

And,

Ps 147:19-20
19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.
20 He has done this for no other nation ;
they do not know his laws.

Praise the LORD.

NIV
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Two things: I never said "we do not need to keep the commandments of God". That is your own personal erroneous conclusion to my biblical belief that New Covenant believers are not "under law". Like Paul I believe Christians are under the Law of Christ and that the NT informs us what that Law is.

And the sabbath WAS a commandment of God in the Mosaic Law Covenant that was made only with the Jews. Show us from scripture when God brought the Gentile nations into that covenant.

Permit me to encourage you by kick-starting your search for such a proof text, albeit in vain:

Deut 4:8
8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before YOU today?
NIV

And,

Deut 18:14
14 The nations YOU will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for YOU, the LORD your God has not permitted YOU to do so.
NIV

And,

Deut 31:16
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. THEY will forsake me and break the covenant I made with THEM.
NIV

And,

Ps 147:19-20
19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.
20 He has done this for no other nation ;
they do not know his laws.

Praise the LORD.

NIV
You need to prove the Sabbath was removed as a commandment of God, not the other way around- God wrote His laws in the hearts and minds in the NC instead of deleting them. Jer 31:33, Heb 8:10 God blessed the weekly Sabbath day that is a commandment and once God blesses something, man cannot reverse Num 23:20 so you will need a thus saith the Lord on that verse that says we no longer need to keep the holy day of the Lord thy God, which is the seventh day Sabbath thus saith and writeith the Lord. Since there is no such scripture stating we do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment and man is to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 my faith is in His Word. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commanemnts and is the one speaking at Mt Sinai which is Him repeating what He said previously Exo 20:6 right in the Ten, the burden is on you to prove otherwise. The Sabbath didn’t disappear in the NT kept by Jesus, His followers and diciples before and after the Cross and will be kept for His people for eternity thus saith the Lord Isa 66:22-23. Amen.
 
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Doran

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You need to prove the Sabbath was removed as a commandment of God, not the other way around- God wrote His laws in the hearts and minds in the NC instead of deleting them. Jer 31:33, Heb 8:10 God blessed the weekly Sabbath day that is a commandment and once God blesses something, man cannot reverse Num 23:20 so you will need a thus saith the Lord on that verse that says we no longer need to keep the holy day of the Lord thy God, which is the seventh day Sabbath thus saith and writeith the Lord. Since there is no such scripture stating we do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment and man is to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4 my faith is in His Word. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commanemnts and is the one speaking at Mt Sinai which is Him repeating what He said previously Exo 20:6 right in the Ten, the burden is on you to prove otherwise. The Sabbath didn’t disappear in the NT kept by Jesus, His followers and diciples before and after the Cross and will be kept for His people for eternity thus saith the Lord Isa 66:22-23. Amen.
Yes, he wrote the Law of Christ in the hearts of his NC people, the Law of Liberty, the Perfect Law, the Law of Faith -- not the Law of Moses; for if he had written the Mosaic Law Covenant in the hearts of his NC people, that would have been all 613 commandments in that particular covenant. Since the NC replaces the Old (Heb 8:13). then it follows logically and biblically that there is also a change of law (Heb 7:12)

And the antitype to the sabbath day is even more blessed (Mat 21:19) than the sabbath was since the the substance of shadows or antitypes are always superior.

And Jesus' commandments AFTER the Cross do not involve any sabbath-keeping. The 4th commandment is nowhere repeated in the NT. (Please spare me of your eisegetical interpretation of Hebrews 4.)

Not only is the commandment not repeated, but in all the various lists of litany of sins in the NT that Christians are warned to avoid, sabbath-breaking is conspicuously absent. How odd is that since so much of the NT is targeted to Gentiles? The sabbath day is even conspicuously absent in the Jerusalem Council proclamation that was aimed at Gentiles!

Jesus kept the sabbath because he was born under Law. But after his work of atonement and resurrection, he appeared to his disciples on the first day of the week. Jesus was far more about Grace and Truth (Jn 1:17) than he was about Law, refusing even to own the Law for himself and even for his own disciples (Jn 10:34; 15:25), doubtlessly seeing that the end of the Jewish Age (Mosaic Law Covenant) was fast approaching, as quickly as the Times of the Gentiles was set to make its grand entrance unto the world stage (Lk 21:24).

Paul didn't "keep the sabbath"; rather on his missionary journeys he preached the gospel to fellow Jews on the sabbath because THEY kept the sabbath and, therefore, it was a wise, intelligent and time-saving strategy to evangelize to a convenient, ready-made audience of Jews and their Gentile proselytes in the various synagogues in Asia Minor. (Talking about killing two birds with one stone!) In fact, the narratives in Acts demonstrate Paul practicing what he often preached. i.e. "making the most of every opportunity" for the sake of the Gospel (Gal 6:10; Eph 5:16; Col 4:5). There's not one text in the NT that says that Paul or any Christian for that matter worshiped God on the sabbath or "kept" the sabbath. Not one text! More eisegesis and wishful thinking on your part.

And living by "every word that proceeds out of God's mouth" includes listening carefully to what the OT and NT writers had to say about the advent of the New Covenant and the obsolescence of the Old, about how they always categorized the sabbath as religious (or ceremonial law), about all the temporary purposes of the Law and how the Law itself was a shadow of better things, and about their sentiments on the keeping of Jewish religious days (Rom 14:1-8; Gal 4:9-11; Col 2:16-17). In other words, we don't get to cherry-pick what words of God we want to listen to and live by!

In fact, since the Old Covenant is no longer in force, then neither can the SIGN to that covenant any longer be valid. As the Old Covenant goes, so goes it's sign. And DOUBLY so, since it was sign between God and ISRAEL (Ex 31:17-18) -- not between God and the entire world! And isn't this truth more than a little bit strange since sabbatarians steadfastly insist that God mandated the sabbath to our first parents immediately after creation? One would naturally and reasonably think, then, that the sabbath day would be a sign between God and all mankind!) (How come YOU are not listening carefully to the words of God in this passage and living by its words!?)

Finally, because you left the "Can Christians Work for Income...?", you're probably unaware that the Holy Spirit put an idea into my head that I followed through on: He told me to falsify sabbatarianism with a thoroughly biblical syllogism. So, I did just that in post 436 in that thread. You should read it sometime. Perhaps you'll do something no other sabbath-keeper has done, thus far: Falsify one of my three premises to the syllogism and you will make the syllogism fall like a house of cards in a mild breeze. The syllogism actually operates on the assumption that sabbath-keeping is still valid today. This the good news for folks like yourself. But the bad for you is that my major and two minor premises totally neutralize the sabbath commandment. Check it out when you get a chance. After all, you stated in your very first sentence that you want me to PROVE things, right? Well, I have. I have shown that NT truth conflicts with OT law, specifically the 4th commandment. So, get busy.

In summary, sabbatarianism in this New Covenant dispensation is intellectually bankrupt; but even far worse it's biblically impoverished!
 
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