Three Boxes

[ranmaonehalf]

Hello my good friend I have 1 option for you
and 2 options for you to choose from for that child over there.

Behold three boxes.

Now let me tell you about these boxes.


Box#1
Ah yes, The box on the right. Well it is ... it is quite horrible to say the least. If your hand is placed in that box you will experience the worst pains both imagined and unimagined. Your hand will be stabbed with spikes, burnt with acid and fire, boiled in water, eaten by insects and you will have this horrible itch under your skin which you can never reach. And that is just some of the nicer things that will happen when your hand is placed in there. The good news is no one can choose to place your hand in this box. I don't know anyone who would choose to place your hand in that box... well there is one that might but hes pretty odd. Regardless once your hand is in the box it is in there forever.

Box#2
This box here on your left is a fantastic box. For those that have there hands placed in here they will enjoy the most fanatic pleasure of there life.
Unfortunately I don't know of anyone that has had there hands placed in it but I know some have. They have never told me what it was like but im told from others its pure bliss.

Ahh and finally
Box#3
The center box. Ok now ive chosen to place your hand in this box. (sorry not really a choice for you but you have a chance... maybe)

Its an interesting box. It can be quite nice some of the times. It usually is. Its not constant though. I can almost guarantee that at some point your hand will be tortured a little, I do apologize about that but it seems important that you experience the possibilities. You will also as likely experiences an occasional good moment as well and if that's the case good for you.

Now the fun part. Your hand can be moved from this box to one of the others. Now dont take you hand out just yet. If you pull out your hand yourself it will be placed then in box #1 .. you know the one that's currently dripping blood. So keep your hand in. Yes i know you just got poked by something. (i wonder if it has teeth...) Now what you must do is wait. At some point someone will come and move your hand for you. They may move it to either box, im not sure what reason they use but ive heard it depends on how you act. I have also heard it may matter on other criteria. One guy said it depended on what you were wearing that day , another suggested it depended on the mood of the mover, another said it depended on whether you believed it would be moved or not. Dont worry about it and just leave your hand in the box no matter how bad it is or how long it takes or else it will be placed in box #1.

Oh one more thing. You can choose for others to place there hand in box 2 or 3. no 1 is right out.. (i hope).

So what do you choose? If you have the chance to choose whether someone gains eternal bliss or a life of ups and downs in all likelihood and an uncertain chance of bliss and a more likely one of eternal suffering, which do you choose.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

Also please state why you chose 2 or 3.

 

[FlamingFemme]

Honestly? I chose #2 - And I'm not entirely sure why, except that it sounded nice.
*shrug*
I think I know where you were going with this, though, and after thinking about it, I probably should have chosen #3.

 

[PantsMcFist]

I need a lot of this reworded in order to be more sense making.
I see the analogy here, but I am ignoring it.

I didn't see anywhere saying I have to leave my hand in there indefinitely, so I choose box #1. I'm putting my hand in their as long as I can possibly stand it. It'll be a great character building experience.

Is this like a gom jabar?

 

[Belk]

Box #2 it is. Mostly because I hope that the bliss part is correct and would like others to experience that.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

box #1 wasnt a choice. and i corrected that slight oversite. and yes the gom jabar inspired me.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

Honestly? I chose #2 - And I'm not entirely sure why, except that it sounded nice.
*shrug*
I think I know where you were going with this, though, and after thinking about it, I probably should have chosen #3.

well please vote if you can. I personally would go for #2. I would find it cruel to force someone in box #3 knowing that #2 was bliss and 3 could lead to either of the boxes but would not be great no matter your choice.

 

[cantata]

I'd choose box 2 for other people, of course.

Why would anyone choose otherwise?

 

[PantsMcFist]

I picked box #3, and hope they make it to #2, in the spirit of the analogy.

The only thing which defines pleasure and pain is point of reference. Someone who lives their whole life in pain will find lack of pain to be bliss. Someone who lives their whole life in pleasure will find normal life torturous. Best to have a life that experiences both, so you can understand and appreciate the balance of both in life. If there must be another box, a pure bliss box would be best, because everyone that has experienced the ups and downs of life will be able to appreciate it.

 

[cantata]

I picked box #3, and hope they make it to #2, in the spirit of the analogy.

The only thing which defines pleasure and pain is point of reference. Someone who lives their whole life in pain will find lack of pain to be bliss. Someone who lives their whole life in pleasure will find normal life torturous. Best to have a life that experiences both, so you can understand and appreciate the balance of both in life. If there must be another box, a pure bliss box would be best, because everyone that has experienced the ups and downs of life will be able to appreciate it.

I thought in this particular thought experiment the person had experienced an ordinary life up until this point, though..?

Also, I'm not sure it's worth risking the person ending up getting tortured forever, even if, should they end up in the bliss-box, they'll appreciate it more.

 

[PantsMcFist]

I thought in this particular thought experiment the person had experienced an ordinary life up until this point, though..?

Also, I'm not sure it's worth risking the person ending up getting tortured forever, even if, should they end up in the bliss-box, they'll appreciate it more.

I think you're correct on point #1, but to keep the analogy pure I interpreted it my way

I would have questions about the various beliefs regarding what gets a hand moved from box 3 to 2. In reality, there is enough theological information available about all the major religions and worldviews that people, if they care to, can make an informed study of it. The crux of most religions is behavior, so I would simply be the best human being I can while being patient for the hand mover to show up. In reality, this analogy mixes speculation with metaphysical knowledge that we don't actually possess, so it's hard to make it work, when it comes down to the nitty gritty.

In the end, people have some control over where they end up. Also, assuming that I am in control of what box the hand goes into, I would tell everyone to just be patient and be nice. Better to give them an option, and take the deserving, than to have a tyranny of bliss.

 

[jcook922]

I chose box #3, I would choose that box for myself or anybody else. I believe Box 1 and 2 are both unfortunate, because I prefer life to have it's mysteries where as Box 1 and 2 are absolutes without mystery.

I would rather STAY in Box 3 indefinitely.

 

[morningstar2651]

Box #3

We know bliss because we can compare it to agony. If all is bliss or agony, then there ceases to be bliss or agony. You can't have one without the other. Box #1 would lower the baseline of what we consider normal, and box #2 would raise it.

 

[.Sabre.]

Box #2 for others. I wouldn't want to make a choice for someone else that'd lead to suffering. For myself....#2 would be nice, but only if I could be very sure it wasn't at the expense of others.

 

[cantata]

Box #2 for others. I wouldn't want to make a choice for someone else that'd lead to suffering.

Yeah, this.

I don't think I'd have the right to consign someone else to suffering. The bliss-box is the fairest option.

 

[Belk]

well please vote if you can. I personally would go for #2. I would find it cruel to force someone in box #3 knowing that #2 was bliss and 3 could lead to either of the boxes but would not be great no matter your choice.

Ah, but the one thing that made me consider #3 is that bliss is not a certainty. Since you are experiencing what #3 has to offer you are more certain of the outcome. You are not even certain someone will come along to move you to #1 or #2. I'm just the trusting sort.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

I picked box #3, and hope they make it to #2, in the spirit of the analogy.

The only thing which defines pleasure and pain is point of reference. Someone who lives their whole life in pain will find lack of pain to be bliss. Someone who lives their whole life in pleasure will find normal life torturous. Best to have a life that experiences both, so you can understand and appreciate the balance of both in life. If there must be another box, a pure bliss box would be best, because everyone that has experienced the ups and downs of life will be able to appreciate it.

I would disagree, regardless of whether you have a point of reference pain would still hurt. I don't think. Wow this hurts much more than that nice hand massage from last week.
But to clarify.
You would be willing to let someone be tortured for eternity when you could ensure otherwise?

 

[PantsMcFist]

I would disagree, regardless of whether you have a point of reference pain would still hurt. I don't think. Wow this hurts much more than that nice hand massage from last week.
But to clarify.
You would be willing to let someone be tortured for eternity when you could ensure otherwise?

If pain were constant, and all we ever knew, we would have no point of reference for not-pain. In your dilemma, nothing in that box exists but pain. Nothing but pain can exist - so there is no way to imagine not-pain (ontological argument). Same with pleasure.

I would never just toss someone into a torturous existence for eternity, just as I would never toss someone into endless pleasure for no reason. People must decide their course.

That's not to say people merit either, but the dilemma is taking a rather simple view of heaven and hell. I think heaven would be total community with others and God, while I think hell would be no community, with access to no others and no God - total anomie.

 

[ranmaonehalf]

Now lets just say for clarity sakes that you can tell what pain and pleasure is and you know what it coudl have been like. ( if that helps remove your wiggle room.)

 

[PantsMcFist]

Now lets just say for clarity sakes that you can tell what pain and pleasure is and you know what it coudl have been like. ( if that helps remove your wiggle room.)

If people deserve pleasure, why not give them loads of it? If people deserve pain, give them loads of it! I would never just throw all people one way or the other, with no justification.