Threatening??

b&wpac7 said:

I remember asking multiple things. Asked to be shown that I needed faith in Jesus to be saved from Hell, if God existed, if Jesus's work was true, if God/Jesus would reveal Himself to me (the concepts were intertwined in my mind, so I couldn't separate "Jesus" from "God") that kind of stuff. This was a decade ago and I don't remember all the specifics. It took me 2-3 years of this doubting phase before I started to think that either I wasn't supposed to be on that path or nobody was listening. It would take another seven for me to find my belief in God.

Forgive me for jumping to assumptions, but if you're going to respond that I didn't ask the correct questions and that I need a new set, please don't bother. The God I worship knows my heart and would not withhold knowledge because I didn't phrase the question correctly. He is not someone like Loki.

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He will show you how all this time He's been calling you and its been you who wasn't listening to His still small voice, telling you He still loves you, and wants only whats best for you, like any good Father would.

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What gospeloffensive said is something that i would've said, b&wpac7 have you pondered on what he said? or plan to? maybe Jesus talked to you in a way you were not expecting...

sanjaya1984 said:

Though this is addressed to another poster, I feel I should mention that I have done precisely this. Back in college I was very interested in Christianity. I read the entire Bible, went to churches, attended Bible studies, etc. I ended up deciding not to convert and abandon the religious heritage I already have. In effect, I did go on with my life. Christians seem to be under the impression that anyone who is sufficiently exposed to the Bible and Christian community will end up converting; this isn't the case.

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But the point was to personally ask God to reveal himself to you which you don't mention in your post, you can read the bible from Genesis to Revelations, went to church all your life but if you don't ask him sincerely to reveal himself to you and then be humble enough to be receive any revelations of himself by whatever means he chooses to even if he reveals himself in a way you didn't expect.

kranberrydude said:

What gospeloffensive said is something that i would've said, b&wpac7 have you pondered on what he said? or plan to? maybe Jesus talked to you in a way you were not expecting...

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Let's work at this from the other side. NOTE: I AM MAKING A POINT HERE NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE


What if my response was:

I know you guys have looked, but have you pondered on what I said? God may be calling you away from your belief in Jesus. Maybe God has talked to you in a way you were not expecting and wants you to leave your faith and join mine, because it is the truth and you just don't see it right now. God loves you, you know?

kranberrydude said:

has your own religion made you truly happy? have you found in there what you heart longs for or are you still lacking that of what you search for?

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I'm quite happy. I wouldn't have been practicing for more than a decade if I wasn't. Actually, I wasn't unhappy before being a Witch either.

but if she found her happiness, wouldn't you at least search Christ with sincerity, not necessarily leaving your religion, but at least trying to see if Christ is real? it won't hurt asking him to reveal himself to you, if you do with sincerity and nothing happens, then go on with your life.

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Why if I was already happy? I'm not envious of her happiness or afraid she might be more happy than I am.

C.S. Lewis' conversion was not certainly a ''light switch'' conversion, he really analyzed theism and christianity, all the way up to the moment he concluded Jesus was the son of God. It was not all sudden, he went from atheism to theism, and from theism to christianity.

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That's good. My point was that the conversion stories that are like a lightswitch do not sound realistic.

you say that about the 'right path', but isn't truth exclusive? if i say a pear is green and another person says the pear is red, are they both correct or only one of them is correct? Jesus is the only one who claimed to be the way and the truth, have other religions claimed that?

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Align yourself with people who seek the truth and avoid those who claim to have found it as they say. I don't care how many religions claim to be the right, true way. I would probably reject them based on that claim alone. My religion isn't about being right. It is not a path that everyone should take. It's not so much about where I am going than it is about where I am. And since I am not in the same place everything else is, it would not make sense for it to be right for others.

HE84 said:

I think that the best way to go about this is just to SHOW them through your actions and who you are as a person. Your example can speak volumes more than words will ever do.

Topics of this nature are a touchy matter for many people. If you are too "preachy" them you might even repell some people into thinking that is all you do. In the bible it says there is a time for all things.... there is a time to talk about sports.... cars....family...etc...

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And here again is a good time to show that satan can transform himself into an angel of light, deceive a young 14 year old boy into believing a whole false testimony of Jesus, leading millions to follow a false prophet, and even today as archeology could easily prove there was no great battle on your most holy mountian, you refuse to investigate, even as DNA proved Indians are not of Jewish decent.....sad that you don't see the truth

b&wpac7 said:

Let's work at this from the other side. NOTE: I AM MAKING A POINT HERE NOT TRYING TO CONVERT ANYONE


What if my response was:

I know you guys have looked, but have you pondered on what I said? God may be calling you away from your belief in Jesus. Maybe God has talked to you in a way you were not expecting and wants you to leave your faith and join mine, because it is the truth and you just don't see it right now. God loves you, you know?

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You have the right God but you failed to see the Messiah who has been prophesied to come from the very beginning of time

thegospelisoffensive said:

You have the right God but you failed to see the Messiah who has been prophesied to come from the very beginning of time

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You have the right God but failed to see that the messiah has not yet come due to not fulfilling the prophecies given.

AGAIN NOT TRYING TO CONVERT BUT MAYBE IT WILL ACTUALLY GET THROUGH THE INTERFERENCE

b&wpac7 said:

You have the right God but failed to see that the messiah has not yet come due to not fulfilling the prophecies given.

AGAIN NOT TRYING TO CONVERT BUT MAYBE IT WILL ACTUALLY GET THROUGH THE INTERFERENCE

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well when He comes the second time and fulfills the second half that you claim He didn't fulfill the first time, then you will realize you have missed Him......I wish you well

thegospelisoffensive said:

well when He comes the second time and fulfills the second half that you claim He didn't fulfill the first time, then you will realize you have missed Him......I wish you well

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Well, when he comes the first time, the nations will recognize the horrible mistake they have made and be shocked. Then:

Zechariah 8:
23. So said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."

Shall we keep this dance going or will you recognize my point?

@awitch,
1.What's happiness for you?
2. you say

Align yourself with people who seek the truth

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but then you say

My religion isn't about being right.

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You give me the advice me to be with people that seek the truth but then you don't care if your religion is right; again truth is exclusive, only one is saying the truth and the rest is lying.

@b&wpac7,
1. i ask you, the messiah you are waiting for, is gonna be God or just a prophet/liberator? and what is going to be the purpose of his coming in your jewish view?

thegospelisoffensive said:

And here again is a good time to show that satan can transform himself into an angel of light, deceive a young 14 year old boy into believing a whole false testimony of Jesus, leading millions to follow a false prophet, and even today as archeology could easily prove there was no great battle on your most holy mountian, you refuse to investigate, even as DNA proved Indians are not of Jewish decent.....sad that you don't see the truth

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you must be bored.......since what I posted had nothing to do with the lds beliefs nor anything to do with this thread... way to go there buddy

kranberrydude said:

1. i ask you, the messiah you are waiting for, is gonna be God or just a prophet/liberator? and what is going to be the purpose of his coming in your jewish view?

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We are told in Isaiah that the future king will fear God. I don't conceive a notion where God fears God, so he is a man.

b&wpac7 said:

We are told in Isaiah that the future king will fear God. I don't conceive a notion where God fears God, so he is a man.

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1.would you give me that verse?

2. you say the messiah will be a man, then why prophet Isaiah said this:
Isaiah 9:6-7 [6] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [7] Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever''

seems to me like the Messiah isn't?

kranberrydude said:

1.would you give me the verse?

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Isaiah 11:

3. And he shall be animated by the fear of the Lord, and neither with the sight of his eyes shall he judge, nor with the hearing of his ears shall he chastise.

thegospelisoffensive said:

Do the spirits acknowledge He is the Son of God the Holy one? as they did in the bible Mathew 8:29, Mark 1:24, If they do not acknowledge Him as such, I would say they are lying spirits because there's only two solutions Jesus Christ was who He said He was, the Son of God and the only path to the Father or He was a raving lunitic, and should not be trusted at all. read His words and make a decision, Son of God or madman......He can't be both.......this is for the earlier poster, who reminded me of this dilema

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No, they don't. Why should I assume they're lying, and not assume the Bible is wrong?
As for the lord liar lunatic thing, as I said in my last post (er, I think it was) - I don't buy into that. Why? Several people have already hit on the whys... lord, liar, or lunatic are not the only options.

kranberrydude said:

but if she found her happiness, wouldn't you at least search Christ with sincerity, not necessarily leaving your religion, but at least trying to see if Christ is real? it won't hurt asking him to reveal himself to you, if you do with sincerity and nothing happens, then go on with your life.

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You're making assumptions about me... I have already done this earlier in my life. Nothing happened. Nothing. And I really, truly, wanted it. (And I am not sure I can elaborate too much on why I wanted it, and what happened after... it would be seen as too close to promotion of paganism, which is against the rules - I have no interest in converting people, but I know it could be taken that way, so I'll refrain.)

On that note though, when you hear a testimony about any other religion, do you also sincerely look into it? Do you investigate every view of God, every God, every religion out there? Do you take your own advice about these things?

This all goes back to what I said earlier. EVERY religion has stories like this. There are happy members of every religion, there are unhappy members of every religion. She found her happiness, and again, I am happy for her... but like I already said - the things she mentioned having after converting? I already have those. If I did not have happiness, if I did not have a relationship with the Divine, if I did not have spiritual growth and fulfillment, I would not have stayed a pagan for so many years. So why should I take her happiness as some sort of special thing? I have my own happiness - and I can go all around the internet and watch testimonies from happy Muslims, Jews, atheists, Buddhists, pagans, etc. One story is not special - it can be nice to hear, but it doesn't carry some weight or importance on my life. A dozen stories are not special, because again dozens can be found for every group.
So, what makes this one story so important, when I have what she has - what many people from many religions feel they have? Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?

you say that about the 'right path', but isn't truth exclusive? if i say a pear is green and another person says the pear is red, are they both correct or only one of them is correct? Jesus is the only one who claimed to be the way and the truth, have other religions claimed that?

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It's more like one person saying the pear is green, another saying it is sweet, another saying it is juicy, another saying it has a stem, another saying there are seeds. They're all correct.
Christianity is not the only religion that claims 100% truth - but even if it was, that doesn't necessarily mean it is.

b&wpac7 said:

Isaiah 11:

3. And he shall be animated by the fear of the Lord, and neither with the sight of his eyes shall he judge, nor with the hearing of his ears shall he chastise.

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Ok thanks it seems fair enough but then to make sense that it is talking about God fearing(reverential fear) God i have to ask you a questions:
1. if God created us in His image, and we are body,spirit and soul,
then he must be a God with three dimensions yet one, your body can interact with your spirit as Jesus as God Son can fear His other dimension (Father).

BTW i'm not sure if you read the Isaiah 9 i put in my previous post.

kranberrydude said:

Ok thanks it seems fair enough but then to make sense that is talking about God fearing(reverential fear) God i have to ask you, Did God created us in His image?

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The book of Genesis says that He did, indeed, create us in His image.

BTW i'm not sure if you read the Isaiah 9 i put in my previous post.

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Jewish translation:
5. For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." 6. To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.

b&wpac7 said:

The book of Genesis says that He did, indeed, create us in His image.

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and that image is composed of body,spirit and soul right?

b&wpac7 said:

Jewish translation:
5. For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." 6. To him who increases the authority, and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to support it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.

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perfect (there is an issue on what translation is right but let's assume yours is right ) but anyway using your version:
Isaiah 7:14-Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

Mattthew 1:22-23 [20] [22] All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: [23] "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" --which means, "God with us."

kranberrydude said:

and that image is composed of body,spirit and soul right?

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No, we don't believe that it is. The image spoken of is not a physical image.

perfect but then on Isaiah 7:14-Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.
Mattthew 1:22-23 [20] [22] All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: [23] "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" --which means, "God with us."

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1) I'm really glad your translation of Isaiah uses the correct "young woman" and not the incorrect "virgin".

2) Isaiah is speaking to King Ahaz. He is telling him that Ahaz does not need to worry, and God will give him a sign. What is that sign?

The young woman will have a child and name him Immanuel. Before he knows right from wrong, King Ahaz's enemies will be gone.

This does nothing for King Ahaz if that child is 600+ years in the future.

There are plenty of names in the Hebrew text that mean things to do with God. My Hebrew name is Nehemya, which means comforted by God. Having a child with a name that means "God is with us" isn't all that impressive, in the end.

kranberrydude said:

Isaiah 7:14-Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

Mattthew 1:22-23 [20] [22] All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: [23] "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" --which means, "God with us."

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There's another discrepancy here.

Who will call him Immanuel? Isaiah says she, the mother of the child, will. Matthew says they will. Who is they? We know that Mary didn't call him Immanuel, Mary called him Jesus (Yeshua, whatever).

b&wpac7 said:

No, we don't believe that it is. The image spoken of is not a physical image.

1) I'm really glad your translation of Isaiah uses the correct "young woman" and not the incorrect "virgin".

2) Isaiah is speaking to King Ahaz.

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a) but how do you know that when it says in the same image it is also speaking of us having a spirit and having a soul as Him?

2) i'm going to be honest, using your version will defeat me because it seems to me that the jews changed these keywords (virgin,and the other Isiah verse of 'mighty God')because of fear of these verses talking about Jesus.