Thread deleted

[tturt]

We can trust Yahweh that whatever He does is for our good (James 1:17). He knows us more than we know ourselves. Everything He does has a purpose -
even if we don't understand it when it happens or later.

Hall has continued to point to Yeshua.

 

[Biblicist]

My apologies, i looked up the whole passage, an angel was speaking to Zechariah.

The passage makes more sense quoted as a whole.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 5:5-11 - New International Version

some interesting commentary here:

Zechariah 5:9 Commentaries: Then I lifted up my eyes and looked, and there two women were coming out with the wind in their wings; and they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens.

Yes, I had to go back to the start of Zechariah to try and work out what the revelation that the Angel gave to Zechariah was all about.

I have what appears to be a good book on Angels by C.F. Dickason (260 pages) and he seems to cover all the bases when it comes to the topic of Angels; he rightfully points out that the Scriptures do not suggest that Angles have wings, other than with the heavenly creatures that serve God before His Throne but they are not Angels in the ordinary meaning of the word.

Angels, C. Fred Dickason (1975/99) pp.41-42

“It seems to be a common conception that angels have wings. Artists picture both good and evil angels as humans or grotesque composites of men and beasts and almost always with wings. Does this agree with Scripture?

On some occasions, the Scriptures picture angels as having wings. Isaiah's vision of Jehovah included a description of the seraphim, angelic beings who stood above the throne of Jehovah. These awesome creatures each had six wings. With two each one covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew about his duties. It seems that his hands were separate from his wings (Isaiah 6:2, 6).

Another class of angels described as having wings is the cherubim. Ezekiel's vision portrays them as having four faces and four wings each, with hands under their wings (Ezekiel 1:5-8). Their wings evidently provided the swift motion ascribed to them (1:1 3-14), and their movement caused a noise like many waters, as a sound from God, like an army moving; and when they stood, they let down their wings (1:24). Imagine the terrifying sight and sound. Here are two classes of angels, seraphim and cherubim, that definitely are pictured with wings.

Do other angels have wings as well? There are some occasions when angels are said to fly. The angel Gabriel was "caused to fly swiftly״ to Daniel's side (Daniel 9:21 KJV; cf. Luke 1:19). The reference to flying may imply that Gabriel has wings, though the means of movement is not specified. Revelation 14:6-7 records the vision of the apostle John of an event in the coming great tribulation. He says, "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven״ (v. 6), announcing terrible judgment on unbelievers. What sort of angel this is, we are not told. We may surmise that he is a lesser angel than Gabriel or Michael (Revelation 12:7), just as the other angels of judgment in the same book. This angel also seems to have wings, and so do many of those who seem his equal.

Do angels have wings? They do not have material wings, for wings are for planing or flapping in flight for bodies with weight. Since angels are spirits, they have no weight. They certainly could move without physical wings. Their wings, when pictured, may symbolize the reality of their swiftness to execute God's wishes, just as wind and fire symbolize their fast and fervent service (Hebrews 1:7). It may be that the wings of the seraphim in Isaiah 6:2, which cover their feet and faces, symbolize their reverence of God's presence. Surely this is not the commonly conceived use of wings. Wings, then, may be pictures of angels' genuine complete swift obedience and service".
​

 

[Biblicist]

What then in your view are angels?

The bible does speak of some of them having wings, what sort of language is this?

From what we can tell from the Scriptures, other than with the Heavenly creatures, Angels appear to have human ("male") form but they certainly do not come with wings.

 

[Robert Richborough]

From what we can tell from the Scriptures, other than with the Heavenly creatures, Angels appear to have human ("male") form but they certainly do not come with wings.

Isaiah 6:1–13 (ESV)

6 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his

 

[Robert Richborough]

Yes, I had to go back to the start of Zechariah to try and work out what the revelation that the Angel gave to Zechariah was all about.

I have what appears to be a good book on Angels by C.F. Dickason (260 pages) and he seems to cover all the bases when it comes to the topic of Angels; he rightfully points out that the Scriptures do not suggest that Angles have wings, other than with the heavenly creatures that serve God before His Throne but they are not Angels in the ordinary meaning of the word.

Angels, C. Fred Dickason (1975/99) pp.41-42

“It seems to be a common conception that angels have wings. Artists picture both good and evil angels as humans or grotesque composites of men and beasts and almost always with wings. Does this agree with Scripture?

On some occasions, the Scriptures picture angels as having wings. Isaiah's vision of Jehovah included a description of the seraphim, angelic beings who stood above the throne of Jehovah. These awesome creatures each had six wings. With two each one covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew about his duties. It seems that his hands were separate from his wings (Isaiah 6:2, 6).

Another class of angels described as having wings is the cherubim. Ezekiel's vision portrays them as having four faces and four wings each, with hands under their wings (Ezekiel 1:5-8). Their wings evidently provided the swift motion ascribed to them (1:1 3-14), and their movement caused a noise like many waters, as a sound from God, like an army moving; and when they stood, they let down their wings (1:24). Imagine the terrifying sight and sound. Here are two classes of angels, seraphim and cherubim, that definitely are pictured with wings.

Do other angels have wings as well? There are some occasions when angels are said to fly. The angel Gabriel was "caused to fly swiftly״ to Daniel's side (Daniel 9:21 KJV; cf. Luke 1:19). The reference to flying may imply that Gabriel has wings, though the means of movement is not specified. Revelation 14:6-7 records the vision of the apostle John of an event in the coming great tribulation. He says, "And I saw another angel flying in midheaven״ (v. 6), announcing terrible judgment on unbelievers. What sort of angel this is, we are not told. We may surmise that he is a lesser angel than Gabriel or Michael (Revelation 12:7), just as the other angels of judgment in the same book. This angel also seems to have wings, and so do many of those who seem his equal.

Do angels have wings? They do not have material wings, for wings are for planing or flapping in flight for bodies with weight. Since angels are spirits, they have no weight. They certainly could move without physical wings. Their wings, when pictured, may symbolize the reality of their swiftness to execute God's wishes, just as wind and fire symbolize their fast and fervent service (Hebrews 1:7). It may be that the wings of the seraphim in Isaiah 6:2, which cover their feet and faces, symbolize their reverence of God's presence. Surely this is not the commonly conceived use of wings. Wings, then, may be pictures of angels' genuine complete swift obedience and service".
​

Proof that spirits have no weight ?
Proof that the wings have to be like bird wings and not something entirely different.
Proof that it is only "representant of their swiftness"

Wings as many have described in their encounters of angels are not bird like wings but usually rays of light that appear like wings. But there is no solid proof to confirm any of this aside from what the bible says.

 

[Biblicist]

Proof that spirits have no weight ?
Proof that the wings have to be like bird wings and not something entirely different.
Proof that it is only "representant of their swiftness"

Wings as many have described in their encounters of angels are not bird like wings but usually rays of light that appear like wings. But there is no solid proof to confirm any of this aside from what the bible says.

I will have to grant that your approach to the makeup of the wings of the heavenly creatures is certainly an interesting approach to the question, but from what we can tell from the Scriptures when the various Biblical writers speak of wings they are referring to actual 'physical' wings.

Undoubtedly, as very few of us have probably ever spent any amount of time studying up on the makeup of Angels, this means that it can be very easy for each of us to simply take on the often populist thoughts about Angels and I know that up until maybe a year or two back I also presumed that Angels often had wings; maybe I should have read the book on Angels that I purchased 20 years back the same week that I obtained it.

 

[Robert Richborough]

I will have to grant that your approach to the makeup of the wings of the heavenly creatures is certainly an interesting approach to the question, but from what we can tell from the Scriptures when the various Biblical writers speak of wings they are referring to actual 'physical' wings.

Undoubtedly, as very few of us have probably ever spent any amount of time studying up on the makeup of Angels, this means that it can be very easy for each of us to simply take on the often populist thoughts about Angels and I know that up until maybe a year or two back I also presumed that Angels often had wings; maybe I should have read the book on Angels that I purchased 20 years back the same week that I obtained it.

I'm pretty sure the bible is clear the angels have wings of some form, but there are many deceptions about angels in the modern age, I don't really see our fixation too much with the angels, over the Father.

 

[Biblicist]

I'm pretty sure the bible is clear the angels have wings of some form, but there are many deceptions about angels in the modern age, I don't really see our fixation too much with the angels, over the Father.

You're right in that the Seraphim and Cherubim certainly have wings as it appears other similar heavenly creatures who serve before the Throne also do; but when it comes to the Angelic messengers, such as Michael, Gabriel and others, there is no record of any of them having wings. I certainly agree with you that in this current day and age that there seems to be an unusual amount of interest being placed on Angeology in general.

 

[Robert Richborough]

You're right in that the Seraphim and Cherubim certainly have wings as it appears other similar heavenly creatures who serve before the Throne also do; but when it comes to the Angelic messengers, such as Michael, Gabriel and others, there is no record of any of them having wings. I certainly agree with you that in this current day and age that there seems to be an unusual amount of interest being placed on Angeology in general.

It unfortunately comes from the popularity of occult practices, western mystery tradition, new age religion and Kabllah, I actually used to studies these well aside from Kabllah and new age, but I turned away from it as it is a road to a dark place, I would say personally I think most all angels have some form of wings but not as we understand them, and I have no solid proof, I just cross referenced descriptions of peoples accounts over the ages from early Israelites ect, or Jews and early Christian traditions, when I went through that phase.

 

[Biblicist]

It unfortunately comes from the popularity of occult practices, western mystery tradition, new age religion and Kabllah, I actually used to studies these well aside from Kabllah and new age, but I turned away from it as it is a road to a dark place, I would say personally I think most all angels have some form of wings but not as we understand them, and I have no solid proof, I just cross referenced descriptions of peoples accounts over the ages from early Israelites ect, or Jews and early Christian traditions, when I went through that phase.

We only have to take a look at the many Christian tele-celebrities who have falsely claimed to have had angelic visions over recent years to see how easily people can be confused.

 

[High Fidelity]

We only have to take a look at the many Christian tele-celebrities who have falsely claimed to have had angelic visions over recent years to see how easily people can be confused.

These are the same people that manage to live in mansions in the name of the Lord's work. Suffice to say, captive audience indeed...

 

[Robert Richborough]

We only have to take a look at the many Christian tele-celebrities who have falsely claimed to have had angelic visions over recent years to see how easily people can be confused.

What concerns me is the bible clearly says that we should 9times out of 10 be in complete fear of angels, yet whenever I see people describe them, we always hear how lovely and effeminate and kind they are.

 

[Biblicist]

What concerns me is the bible clearly says that we should 9times out of 10 be in complete fear of angels, yet whenever I see people describe them, we always hear how lovely and effeminate and kind they are.

Well said, it seems that clairvoyants and card-readers do much the same thing in that they only say what people want to hear. But to be fair, as I said earlier, it can be easy for all of us to simply accept the status-quo where we can very easily absorb the thoughts and deliberations of our respective cultures; as I said earlier, I thought for years that most Angels had wings simply because I had heard much the same over and over since I was a child.

 

[Hall]

I'm going to get this thread deleted, for those of you who have seen the picture, consider yourselves lucky to have seen one of God's angels because you and I probably never will again for the rest of our lives until we get to heaven. It was interesting to see people's different reactions.Thank you all for your comments.

 

[tturt]

Agree that most of the time they were fearful when there's an interaction. But there's a few Scriptures that doesn't state that they were such as in Gen 16 with Hagar; I Kings 19 Elijah; II Kings 1 Elijah; several angelic interactions with Zechariah; and Mary Magdalene in John 20. But could have overlooked the reported response since more than "fear" used in some of the Scriptures.

Hall, sorry that you're having the thread deleted but understand.

 

[Robert Richborough]

I'm going to get this thread deleted, for those of you who have seen the picture, consider yourselves lucky to have seen one of God's angels because you and I probably never will again for the rest of our lives until we get to heaven. It was interesting to see people's different reactions.Thank you all for your comments.

That seems a shame it is a lovely photo