Thread About Shunning On GT.

[Hadassah]

Ashes what surprised me, I did not know it, was Messianic Jews practice this as well.

I started the thread in GT because it's controversial. I prefer to keep this board safe.

shalom, hope ya'll don't mind me here.



There are *some* messianic congregations which practice this (we haven't had anyone in our congregation latey - but it has happened before) - though I've been in mainly baptist congregations that have done this.

Being homeschooled under the mennonites and reading books about the mennonites and amish, I kinda understand the idea from your POV, but would love to hear more.

 

[catlover]

shalom, hope ya'll don't mind me here.



There are *some* messianic congregations which practice this (we haven't had anyone in our congregation latey - but it has happened before) - though I've been in mainly baptist congregations that have done this.

Being homeschooled under the mennonites and reading books about the mennonites and amish, I kinda understand the idea from your POV, but would love to hear more.

Cool, Ants! It's good to see you here!

 

[MrJim]

I read through the shunning threads.

Amongst mennonite readings I've found this passage to be the basis for it more so than the Corinthian passage:

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
(Mat 18:15-18)

So then, how do we treat the publicans & heathens?

"Love your neighbor as yourself"...remember there are two types of people out there, the family of God and neighbors--no enemies. So I don't particularly look at the shunning thing as some sort of "cut-off" I'll never talk to you sort of thing, but rather as AED put it so well in her earlier post. Like Academic said, it's sort of a bad term for church discipline--it's just a way to try to help another.

 

[Danfrey]

I guess the reason the Corinthian passage is listed often is that it contains particulars that the Matthew passage does not. For instance, the Matthew passage could be taken to mean don't take communion with the person where the Corinthian passage specifically says not to keep company with the person and even goes as far as not eating with the person. It wouldn't be fair to through out the Corinthian passage just because the Matthew passage does not contain the same level of detail. If we did that, we could pick and choose passages to follow and ignore others. We have to take all of the passages that concern a topic together.

 

[Hadassah]

I guess the reason the Corinthian passage is listed often is that it contains particulars that the Matthew passage does not. For instance, the Matthew passage could be taken to mean don't take communion with the person where the Corinthian passage specifically says not to keep company with the person and even goes as far as not eating with the person. It wouldn't be fair to through out the Corinthian passage just because the Matthew passage does not contain the same level of detail. If we did that, we could pick and choose passages to follow and ignore others. We have to take all of the passages that concern a topic together.

There are others, but I think those generally deal with how you bring the person to the discipline before the shunning action.. such as the witnesses and not going to court outside of the congregational level with a fellow believer.

Am I correct in this understanding ?

 

[Danfrey]

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

I have seen many use this verse to say that those who have been excommunicated from the church should be treated like anyone else outside the church. Without looking at the rest of the scriptures concerning the subject of "Shunning", "The Ban", or "Excommunication", this is a resonable conclusion. I believe we can assume that we are at least not to consider the offender a brother after this point.

17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[d] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Here we are told to avoid those who cause divisions. This one is often overlooked when discussing "shunning".

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Here we have a list of examples of the types of sin being dealt with and specifics of how to deal with the offender. We are not to keep company with them, not even to eat with them. Also, there is emphasis put on the issue that it is only Christians that this applies to, not non-believers.

As with any subject, we must consider all of the scriptures concerning a subject. I am not sure that I have covered them all here, but you can see that to take one passage without the others could lead to a different conclusion.

For an interesting, though not necessarily factual take on the subject visit the glossary of the "Third Way Cafe"
Shunning - Third Way Cafe

 

[DarkNLovely]

I have seen many use this verse to say that those who have been excommunicated from the church should be treated like anyone else outside the church. Without looking at the rest of the scriptures concerning the subject of "Shunning", "The Ban", or "Excommunication", this is a resonable conclusion. I believe we can assume that we are at least not to consider the offender a brother after this point.



Here we are told to avoid those who cause divisions. This one is often overlooked when discussing "shunning".



Here we have a list of examples of the types of sin being dealt with and specifics of how to deal with the offender. We are not to keep company with them, not even to eat with them. Also, there is emphasis put on the issue that it is only Christians that this applies to, not non-believers.

As with any subject, we must consider all of the scriptures concerning a subject. I am not sure that I have covered them all here, but you can see that to take one passage without the others could lead to a different conclusion.

For an interesting, though not necessarily factual take on the subject visit the glossary of the "Third Way Cafe"
Shunning - Third Way Cafe

Yeah, I was gonna ask about that 1 Corinthians 5 verse. What I find interesting is that you don't really see shunning in non-Anabaptist circles even though here is Biblical reference. Any takes on why that be?

 

[MrJim]

Yeah, I was gonna ask about that 1 Corinthians 5 verse. What I find interesting is that you don't really see shunning in non-Anabaptist circles even though here is Biblical reference. Any takes on why that be?

'Cause people will just move on to the church down the street rather than be disciplined...there's always a sympathetic ear that understands that a church is being "too strict" and welcome them into their congregation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

'Cause people will just move on to the church down the street rather than be disciplined...there's always a sympathetic ear that understands that a church is being "too strict" and welcome them into their congregation.

They are probably the majority, eh?
The only church I've heard of that
practices/does
Biblical discipline of those present members reighteously
is a group of called out ones in PERU.....
in the united states, zip,
on the forum, zip,
in tulsa oklahoma, zip (though they will kick out someone who is a martyr disciple student or seeker of the truth; strange, huh? - not really, just as Jesus said would happen)
..
Realize that shunning is
different
than Yahweh's Rule NOT TO ASSOCIATE with some
which you must look up if you don't know it
as
Yahweh said to ASSOCIATE with some (of the synogogue of satan)
would
result in taking part in their sin (NOT IN THEIR RECOVERY)
and getting likewise JUDGED for their sin (because of shaking their hand or having a meal with them wittingly as if they were okay)...
..