Thousand Foot Krutch.. How Christian are they?

[HoT-MetaL]

If a song is produced with the heart intentoin of worship to God, then it IS a christian song, and a sweet song to God.

God Bless, metal.

 

[bleechers]

If a song is produced with the heart intentoin of worship to God, then it IS a christian song, and a sweet song to God.

Which God? How is He approached? How is a relationship with Him established? On what is the worship based?

Jesus said that those who seek to worship God MUST worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH. Truth is determined by the Bible ("thy word is truth").

The heart of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir may be to worship, but the heart is easily deceived. Their god is a false god. Lots of people write songs with a heart of worship to "God" (George Harrison, etc.), but they are not producing "Christian" songs.

What is "Christian" must be defined and defended by Bible doctrine.

Again, nothing here is directed at TFK. My comments are directed at your statement.

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Worship to the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. If you WANT to worship in spirit and in truth, it doesnt matter what style of music you worship to. Are you saying that CCM is wrong, because it is not traditional? Absolutely not, I dont know ANY church that worships in hebrew, greek, latin, or aramaic. Perhaps songs like The Messiah - Handel but nothign regular in western society. Therefore are any of us actually worshipping in spirit and in truth? Of course we are. Its the heart intent, always.

 

[bleechers]

Are you saying that CCM is wrong?

First of all, take a deep breath... now calm down...

The answer to your question is, of course, NO. Umm, I play CCM.

Try not to read so much into my posts. There's no hidden agenda. I'm just stating (for the 74th time) that "wanting" to be "Christian" and actually being "Christian" can be two different things. All I am saying is that we need to check everybody and everything against the scriptures (including me)... just like we'd check any preacher's message against the infallible Word of God.

Hey, I invite folks to check out my stuff against scripture. I've changed things over the years because people have lovingly corrected me. Nobody is above correction.

Its the heart intent, always

Well, don't forget that the heart can be easily deceived. I "worshipped" with fervor for 25 years in a false religion. My heart was in it, but God did not honor it because it was not "in truth." We must have both heart (spirit) and truth in worship.

 

[Subtotal]

My point was this: just because a song is called "Christian" or is performed by Christians, doesn't make it Christian.

Well, I agree with you there. Hmmm...I don't know where the confusion came from.

 

[Live4God]

Well seems as though I'll hav 3 check TFK out! L4G!

 

[X-Cel]

TFK rocks. I can turn up my system without being ashamed of what I'm playing. I thought they really improved over their first cd. They have stayed in my cd player for the longest, only now to be replaced by Big Dismal.

 

[AuburnMeg]

Well, I have not listened to their whole CD's, but about my recent concert experience with them I can say this:

They had many opportunities to talk about Christ, and they didn't. They also pulled out a few secular songs (cover songs) during the show. I'm not going to judge them by any means, not my place, but I, personally, was a little dissapointed.

 

[Subtotal]

I've seen them talk about Christ on stage, and if you ask them after a show, they will talk to you about it personally. The ministry is there.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Shorter response: How can you be a minister and not preach His word? Why are they ashamed to preach the gospel?

umm maybe no shorter, but still an answer:

We are christians are are allowed to have fun. We can talk about things in our life from a Godly prospective without have it being directly focused on God.


Rawkfist is a positive song sung by christians.

Your minister annallogy is perfect. Is every word your pastor may say directly conected to Gods word?

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Well, I have not listened to their whole CD's, but about my recent concert experience with them I can say this:

They had many opportunities to talk about Christ, and they didn't. They also pulled out a few secular songs (cover songs) during the show. I'm not going to judge them by any means, not my place, but I, personally, was a little dissapointed.

Yeah, they aren't bible thumpers, and what is wrong with liking a few secular songs? Nothing. Many christians (including myself) greatly enjoy listening to secular music. Plus not to mention it will show those who were not saved at the concert that they are not legalistic bible thumpers.

You said they had many opportunities to talk about Christ- but did they ever once? I bet they did, cause I know that thier songs speak about it.

 

[Kingservant]

It's very important to seek out information. Many so called Christian bands are really not Christ centered at all. God knows His own and true servants should always test the spirit. Satan is very keen on deception and he knows how to smoke screen very well. I am a seasoned musician that has been watching the bands that profess one thing and live the opposite. Take the time to find out info on your favorite bands. God will reveal to you the Christ centered servants in the music realm.
Take care and always
HUNGER 4 HIS TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Kingservant

 

[Kingservant]

P.O.D. has many areas of GREY. God is very clear about being hot or cold and luke warm. Pillar is an AWESOME example of a band that is HOT for truth in the songs they sing. Lyrics are very powerful and do have a great effect on the listener. Be very careful when tapping into the secular music message!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kingservant
JOHN 8:51

 

[bleechers]

Yeah, they aren't bible thumpers, and what is wrong with liking a few secular songs? Nothing. Many christians (including myself) greatly enjoy listening to secular music. Plus not to mention it will show those who were not saved at the concert that they are not legalistic bible thumpers.

Whew! Good thing they're not "Bible Thumpers"!

The unsaved are always on the lookout to help Christians avoid "Bible Thumpers." We should all thank them for that.

I remember that jerk Bible Thumper who dared to share the gospel with me. What a nerve! Surely, our wisdom and excellency of speech with pleasing words is way better than that old Bible.

And you know, if you preach the truth, people might turn away, forsake you or even stone you, whip you, jail you or crucify you... and that's just not cool! Yeh, man, we need way less Bible-thumping and way more... well... whatever else there is.




"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

"For the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation."

"Preach the Word, in season and out of season."

"Woe unto me if I preach not the gospel."

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

P.O.D. has many areas of GREY. God is very clear about being hot or cold and luke warm. Pillar is an AWESOME example of a band that is HOT for truth in the songs they sing. Lyrics are very powerful and do have a great effect on the listener. Be very careful when tapping into the secular music message!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kingservant
JOHN 8:51

What do you mean they have shades of grey? They speak about whats on their mind. Christians deal with all the same **** as what normal people do. The only REAL difference is that we should deal with our issues in a possitive way. POD does that.
Listen to the song preach, or even read my signature. Tell me they are grey.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

Whew! Good thing they're not "Bible Thumpers"!

The unsaved are always on the lookout to help Christians avoid "Bible Thumpers." We should all thank them for that.

I remember that jerk Bible Thumper who dared to share the gospel with me. What a nerve! Surely, our wisdom and excellency of speech with pleasing words is way better than that old Bible.

And you know, if you preach the truth, people might turn away, forsake you or even stone you, whip you, jail you or crucify you... and that's just not cool! Yeh, man, we need way less Bible-thumping and way more... well... whatever else there is.




"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

"For the scriptures are able to make you wise unto salvation."

"Preach the Word, in season and out of season."

"Woe unto me if I preach not the gospel."

"
I understand where you are coming from, however, I must say that the way the gospel is presented is just a important as saying it period.

We must understand that "The word of God is foolishness to the unsaved."
The unsaved don't understand Christ or the Gospel, and most want nothing to do with it, or they hate it. If one goes about of presenting the gospel in a poor way, then all you will do is drive them farther away.
Faith comes by hearing the word of God yes, but it takes understanding to accept that faith. This verse is accurate, however, if we were to take this 100% literal in just the context of the single verse, then that would mean that every single person who has heard of Christ would be saved. This is unfortunatly untrue, obviously.
They must be WILLING to "hear" you and to take those words to heart.


"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

The bible is the greatest weapon ever created. It is something to use with great care, cause if someone uses it inaccuratly, it can do more damage then good. I see this happen more often then it being used right. This is why decons and overseerers and elders are told to be able to accuratly handle the word of God using sound doctrine.



"I remember that jerk Bible Thumper who dared to share the gospel with me. What a nerve! Surely, our wisdom and excellency of speech with pleasing words is way better than that old Bible."

No, but how about a little bit of both...

Who would you rather listen to more... some person who seemed to be on the brink of insanity that seems to be so religious that she could be apart of a cult, or would you rather have someone that is down to earth, who talks about normal things (cause they do go through normal things) and they simply share how they handle them and slowly but surely builds a relationship with them and slowly but surely SHOWS Gods love... since Love is an action, not something you say... Put yourself in the unsaved persons shoes and how they already view religous radicals.

"Yeh, man, we need way less Bible-thumping and way more... well... whatever else there is."

How about compassion and love? I think thats the word you are lookings for...

WWJD???



Did Jesus pound anyone with a bible to convert them? Infact they all came to him.... interesting. It was because they sw his love and his loved opened thier hearts.

How about his disicples? Jesus would grow a relationship with them and teach them one on one.

I am not saying you are wrong for what you are doing. If you are producing fruit, then keep doing what you are doing... Let the holy spirit be your guide through Gods word, not me.

 

[bleechers]

if someone uses it inaccuratly, it can do more damage then good

Agreed.

"I remember that jerk Bible Thumper who dared to share the gospel with me. What a nerve! Surely, our wisdom and excellency of speech with pleasing words is way better than that old Bible."

No, but how about a little bit of both...

Because the Bible specifically states that we are not to use our wisdom, excellency of speech or pleasing words. I chose those word directly from the texts. It clearly states that GOD has chosen "the foolishness of preaching to save some."

some person who seemed to be on the brink of insanity that seems to be so religious that she could be apart of a cult,

Not sure what to make of this... but for the record, both Paul and Jesus were accused of being "mad" (insane).

How about compassion and love?

Yes, but love without truth is eternally worthless. "Speak the TRUTH in LOVE." Gotta have the first part. "Thy Word is Truth."

Did Jesus pound anyone with a bible to convert them? Infact they all came to him.... interesting. It was because they sw his love and his loved opened thier hearts.

Ummm... he called them "vipers", "children of the Devil", "wicked and perverse" and they got together to demand His crucufixion.

Yes He loved them, but they rejected his offer of the Kingdom and of salvation and He solemnly warned them of the judgment to come. Compassion is for those who seek. Others must be made to see their need to seek.

How about his disicples? Jesus would grow a relationship with them and teach them one on one.

Ummm, most of them abandoned Him. He went from thousands of "disciples" down to about 120 by the end.

Don't misunderstand me, I always say that if people are gonna hate us, let them hate us because of Him, not because we're jerks. I firmly believe in reaching people with love, but that love must be in the truth.

The objection in this thread has been against groups who REFUSE to speak any truth. They refuse to "confess His name" (see John 12).

Your points are well appreciated, I just want us to all stay in the truth here. I agree that methods can differ, but all methods must relate truth. We must preach the gospel. We must love people enough to tell them the truth rather than hope they'll figure it out merely because we don't smoke and we're positive, etc.

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

We shouldn't give them reason to hate us though. We shouldn't go out of our way to appear crazy or religious or holy, to do so would be self righteous.


"Ummm... he called them "vipers", "children of the Devil", "wicked and perverse" and they got together to demand His crucufixion."
This is Biased. WE crucified him as well. Those who did come to him came to him for his love, did we not?


"Yes, but love without truth is eternally worthless. "Speak the TRUTH in LOVE." Gotta have the first part. "Thy Word is Truth." "

Who said anything about not speaking truth? You can talk normally to someone and tell them the truth.
See I am not talking about speaking like a salesman or manipulator. I am talking about spending one on one time with these people SHOWING Gods love, we all know that actions speak louder than words. Plus people JUDGE you by what you do, not what you say. Scientific fact.

"Because the Bible specifically states that we are not to use our wisdom, excellency of speech or pleasing words. I chose those word directly from the texts. It clearly states that GOD has chosen "the foolishness of preaching to save some." "

I agree with you. You should preach to them cause you love them, and preach with sound and uncorrupted doctrine and motivation.

"Your points are well appreciated, I just want us to all stay in the truth here. I agree that methods can differ, but all methods must relate truth. We must preach the gospel. We must love people enough to tell them the truth rather than hope they'll figure it out merely because we don't smoke and we're positive, etc."


agreed brother.

I find that my method works cause if they do choose to accept christ, I will want to the be there for them when the walk gets hard. If I don't have a relationship founded with that person, a trust, it will be difficult.

 

[DJ B.K.]

The objection in this thread has been against groups who REFUSE to speak any truth. They refuse to "confess His name" (see John 12).

I also don't like those so called "christian" groups that barely sing about Jesus. There definetly can be some singing about life experiences and such but if you're going to call yourselves a christian group, sing about Christ a decent amount. Like I said before though, it is OK for a CCM group to sing about something other than Christ. They're not always avoiding it, they just have another subject that means a lot to them that they want to sing about.

 

[NodToTheAgedP]

The question of a bands christianity boils down to their motives, and that is somthing no one can accurately judge. I saw TFK in concert about a month ago and their message was extremely clear. If in fact they are truely making music for God's use, than even if we don't see it, God will use it. That's as simple as it gets.