Thoughts ...

x141 · Dec 8, 2014

toLiJC said:
the sin is not just in the perception, but the spiritual iniquity is the (original) sin, namely the sin of every sinner that is shown in the Bible - from eve and adam to the sinners of book Revelation

Blessings

Thought precedes all things ...

x141 · Dec 8, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
I was thinking about the oil and the wine in Revelation 6. Does anyone have any thoughts about the identity of these things? I was struck with a notion that perhaps these are symbols for something other than actual oil and wine.

You are right ... it is symbolism. The key to interpretation is the purpose of God. In this light (the work he is doing in each of us to his own desired end) all things relate.

I'm sure you have noticed in scripture that things are dual, such as the cup of the Lord, it can be either of wrath, or of the peace of fellowship depending on who is drinking and to the end intent of why they drink, or are caused to drink.

Jesus likened the wine as his blood, saying before he likened it as this, that his blood was drink indeed, which is just to say that it is the real thing, or it is true drink.

For those that heard this (mostly Jews) they already knew that the law said if you drink the blood of any animal you will be cut off, because the life is in the blood, so when Jesus had said this, he was in fact saying you have to be cut off, or you would have no life in you, or said another way "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." He we are, or the old man had to be put to death of their could be no way of becoming one with out true husband, which is the same truth of picking up our cross, or becoming like a little child, different facets of the same one truth, or from seeing from different vantage points, all different but all the same in that it is to the end of the one purpose God purposed in himself.

If we look at what the different examples in scripture of what the wine represented in the form of an inner truth (not physical) we begin to see as the connections of what this is is Bible wide but shown in different facets where sometimes the word does even appear in the portion of text but the process (in us) it relates to is.

When looking at the book of Revelation, we must first understand that it is not the revelation of the Antichrist, it is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which Paul said was the reason why he was born (that God might reveal his son in him), which is just as relative to us as it was to him or anyone else. Even Jesus said, it is God's doing and it is marvelous in our eyes, which is a personnel truth, or a one on one with our Father that happens individually, so it is that the wine and the oil relate to things found in this process through association that we are involved in.

Oil/Holy Spirit ... wine/life ...(though these two words just keep growing as to what they are a reflection of in our consciousness) which is what he poured into the wounds after he had bound them in the parable of the good Samaritan, we being the one who was wounded and dying.

toLiJC · Dec 8, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
I was thinking about the oil and the wine in Revelation 6. Does anyone have any thoughts about the identity of these things? I was struck with a notion that perhaps these are symbols for something other than actual oil and wine.

the "oil" is the ease in every good initiative/action, while the "wine" is the grace/benediction therein

Blessings

toLiJC · Dec 8, 2014

x141 said:
Thought precedes all things ...

the spiritual precedes all things, while the mental is subordinate to it

Blessings

Noxot · Dec 8, 2014

x141 said:
Thought precedes all things ...

toLiJC said:
the spiritual precedes all things, while the mental is subordinate to it

Blessings

freedom precedes spirit and thought ;p

Noxot · Dec 8, 2014

notice how both the oil and the wine come from spherical fruits that are commonly around the same size. I wonder what the Lord wishes to tell us concerning that?

I was thinking about when the Lord said he will gives us a land flowing with milk and honey. and also how the grapes in that land are huge and very many.

now I notice that at the first babies need milk but I had learned that it is not good for babies to eat honey as is said in this random clip from the internet:

I've heard that I shouldn't feed my baby honey. Is this true?
- Cait ( the name 'cait' means pure )

It's true that honey should not be fed to infants younger than 1 year old. Clostridium bacteria that cause infant botulism usually thrive in soil and dust. However, they can also contaminate certain foods — honey in particular. Infant botulism can cause muscle weakness, with signs like poor sucking, a weak cry, constipation, and an overall decreased muscle tone (floppiness).

what is amazing about the milk that comes from God, is that that symbol speaks VERY much to us. here is a clip of some interesting scientific facts about why God desires that we have proper milk, the rest of the info can be read at http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fe...ing/why-breast-is-best/benefits-of-breastmilk :

The Amazing Benefits of Breastmilk

Human milk is more than food. It’s a complex living substance, like blood, with a long list of active germ-fighting and health-promoting ingredients. These benefits of breastmilk help protect babies against all kinds of infections, common and not-so-common.

A drop of breastmilk contains around one million white blood cells. These cells, called macrophages (“big eaters&#8221, gobble up benefits-of-breastmilkgerms. Breastmilk is also power-packed with immunoglobulin A (IgA), which coats the lining of babies’ immature intestines, preventing germs from leaking through. Secretory IgA also works to prevent food allergies. By coating the intestinal lining like a protective paint, the benefits of breastmilk prevent molecules of foreign foods from getting into the bloodstream to set up an allergic reaction.

Colostrum, the milk mothers produce in the first few days after birth, is especially rich in IgA, just at the time when the newborn is first exposed to the outside world and needs protection from germs and foreign substances entering his body. Colostrum also contains higher amounts of white blood cells and infection-fighting substances than mature milk.

As babies grow, the benefits of breastmilk continue to provide important protection against infection and disease. Human infants receive antibodies through the placenta, but these are gradually used up during the first six months. Human milk fills in the immunity gap until baby’s own immune system matures and kicks in. Even babies who continue to nurse into toddlerhood benefit from the many immune factors in their mother’s milk.

Immunities Made-To-Order

One of the benefits of breatmilk is that each mother provides custom-designed milk to protect her infant. When a baby is exposed to a new germ, mother’s body manufactures antibodies to that germ. These antibodies show up in her milk and are passed along to her baby. Many a nursing mother can tell the story of the entire family–dad, mom, siblings–coming down with the flu and the nursing baby having the mildest case, or not getting sick at all. When mother comes down with a bug, the best thing she can do for her baby is to keep breastfeeding.

here is another interesting thing about honey:

When possible, it’s best to buy locally grown, organic, raw honey. This will be produced by bees in or near the environment you live. Consuming foods from the area you live is beneficial as they contain the immune stimulating properties needed for your body to adapt to its environment.

and one last thing about honey from http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/10/20/health-benefits-honey.aspx :

How Honey Is Made (Fascinating!)

It takes about 60,000 bees, collectively traveling up to 55,000 miles and visiting more than 2 million flowers, to gather enough nectar to make one pound of honey.

Once the nectar is gathered, the bee stores it in its extra stomach where it mixes with enzymes, and then passes it (via regurgitation) to another bee’s mouth. This process is repeated until the nectar becomes partially digested and is then deposited into a honeycomb.

Once there, the honeybees fan the liquid nectar with their wings, helping the water to evaporate and create the thick substance you know as “honey.” This honeycomb is then sealed with a liquid secretion from the bee’s abdomen, which hardens into beeswax. As Live Science reported:

“Away from air and water, honey can be stored indefinitely, providing bees with the perfect food source for cold winter months.”

There are more than 300 kinds of honey in the US, each with a unique color and flavor that is dependent upon the nectar source. Lighter colored honeys, such as those made from orange blossoms, tend to be milder in flavor while darker-colored honeys, like those made from wildflowers, tend to have a more robust flavor.

Restoresmysoul · Dec 8, 2014

When i pondered the oil and wine from Revelation 6, i thought about the cost of the wheat and barley, which is a days wage in Mathew 20:8-10. I also pondered the fact that the barley was three quarts. It makes me think of the parable of the Leaven in Mathew 13. I had previously wondered if wine may refer to doctrine, or wisdom, or perhaps the fruit of doctrine, maybe either blessing or wrath, im unsure but Rev and proverbs both talk about mixed wine and cups of wine. Also, wheat and barley are used for making bread, the Lord is bread from heaven which may also refer to doctrine. The number three seems significant. There is so much to meditate on here.

Rev 6:5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart[c] of wheat for a denarius,[d] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Mathew 20:8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.

Mathew 13:33 Another parable He spoke to them: “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures[c] of meal till it was all leavened.”

Proverbs 9:2 She has slaughtered her meat,
She has mixed her wine,
She has also furnished her table.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you,[c] and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

Noxot · Dec 8, 2014

so the amazing thing about honey is how bees can store it indefinitely. seeds are kind of like that too. did anyone hear about that guy that found an ancient seed that was found in some place ( israel lol ) and it grew into a type of palm tree that no longer grew in that part.

there are some seeds of Gods in all of us and they might not be active but they will remain until the proper conditions are met. I would say that divine seeds can't be destroyed...

mysticism is about loving God and loving what God loves. and ofc God loving us... obviously God loving us is the only reason why we damaged creatures could ever be restored and love God and his children and the goods of the world. it is because He loves us that we who did not love him now do love him. mysticism is not one-sided. love should not be one-sided.

Song 8:6-7 (YLT)
Set me as a seal on thy heart, as a seal on thine arm, For strong as death is love, Sharp as Sheol is jealousy, Its burnings are burnings of fire, a flame of Jah! Many waters are not able to quench the love, And floods do not wash it away. If one give all the wealth of his house for love, Treading down--they tread upon it.

youtube.com/watch?v=3oGc1kPpgIw

Restoresmysoul · Dec 8, 2014

Noxot said:
so the amazing thing about honey is how bees can store it indefinitely. seeds are kind of like that too. did anyone hear about that guy that found an ancient seed that was found in some place ( israel lol ) and it grew into a type of palm tree that no longer grew in that part.

there are some seeds of Gods in all of us and they might not be active but they will remain until the proper conditions are met. I would say that divine seeds can't be destroyed...

mysticism is about loving God and loving what God loves.

God loves it when we love each other, so if seeking the things that God loves is the definition of mysticism then love/charity is mysticism. God loves charity which often means walking in simplicity, in my most fallible opinion. I guess thats the point i try to make. I dont see the apostles promoting knowledge as much as simplicity, however i could be seeing things wrong. I just dont know what to think anymore.

Noxot · Dec 8, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
God loves it when we love each other, so if seeking the things that God loves is the definition of mysticism then love/charity is mysticism. God loves charity which often means walking in simplicity, in my most fallible opinion. I guess thats the point i try to make. I dont see the apostles promoting knowledge as much as simplicity, however i could be seeing things wrong. I just dont know what to think anymore.

I had to edit my post because I failed to mention that God loves us which is why mysticism is even a thing. mysticism is just a word. reality is the truth. God is reality. God is the real reality. the kingdom of heaven is eternal and the evils of this world and our sufferings are temporal.

Gods people promote all virtue. some of us need more of this some of us need more of that. the Lord wants to make us beautiful and perfect and he has so much prepared for us. what can be compared to Gods favor and love towards us... we who were dead in our sins? God deserves the most beautiful bride. whatever the Lord gives to us is what we need and whatever the Lord wants us to do and walk in is what will be pleasing to Him and to our own spirits. he knows us better than we know ourselves.

we are all brothers and sisters united in a higher purpose than what the evil spirits of the world and those lower but still good spirits in the world knows to unite in... the goods of the world might not be perfect just as our own goods falls short but they point to God. God and his kingdom. the Holy Trinity. Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit. as much as we can we must be a new heaven and earth and obviously we have to do very little but be pure for God and God does the rest even though he will require of us interactions and for us to be ourselves because this is good as God wants children not ants or robots or even sheep. he will take us if we are ants, but he wants to uplift us to higher things than ants.

paul was a mystic. all Christians who truly seek God are mystics. many Christians don't like that word. i'm not bothered about titles. I want to be spiritual and not carnal. I want to be in Christ and not in the world. I want to be with God and I want God to be with me. I want God to be with each human and I want us all to rejoice together in a place better than paradise. what christian does not want those things? only blind people don't want heaven on earth and since there is so much blindness we fail to help create heaven in earth and the flesh wars with the spirit and the spirit fights the flesh. so the world is what it is.

so what matters is God being with us and clinging to God and for us to be dead to the old and alive with Christ. that's mysticism. I want a religious life as opposed to being part of a religion according to the spirit of the world.

x141 · Dec 9, 2014

Originally Posted by toLiJC View Post
the sin is not just in the perception, but the spiritual iniquity is the (original) sin, namely the sin of every sinner that is shown in the Bible - from eve and adam to the sinners of book Revelation

Blessings
__________________

x141 said:
Thought precedes all things ...

or, this is where sin starts.

x141 · Dec 9, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
When i pondered the oil and wine from Revelation 6, i thought about the cost of the wheat and barley, which is a days wage in Mathew 20:8-10. I also pondered the fact that the barley was three quarts. It makes me think of the parable of the Leaven in Mathew 13. I had previously wondered if wine may refer to doctrine, or wisdom, or perhaps the fruit of doctrine, maybe either blessing or wrath, im unsure but Rev and proverbs both talk about mixed wine and cups of wine. Also, wheat and barley are used for making bread, the Lord is bread from heaven which may also refer to doctrine. The number three seems significant. There is so much to meditate on here.

Rev 6:5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, Come and see. So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A quart[c] of wheat for a denarius,[d] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.

Mathew 20:8 So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first. 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.

Mathew 13:33 Another parable He spoke to them: The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures[c] of meal till it was all leavened.

Proverbs 9:2 She has slaughtered her meat,
She has mixed her wine,
She has also furnished her table.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation.

Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you,[c] and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

It is all connected, and will just keep on growing ...

Restoresmysoul · Dec 9, 2014

Noxot said:
I had to edit my post because I failed to mention that God loves us which is why mysticism is even a thing. mysticism is just a word. reality is the truth. God is reality. God is the real reality. the kingdom of heaven is eternal and the evils of this world and our sufferings are temporal.

Gods people promote all virtue. some of us need more of this some of us need more of that. the Lord wants to make us beautiful and perfect and he has so much prepared for us. what can be compared to Gods favor and love towards us... we who were dead in our sins? God deserves the most beautiful bride. whatever the Lord gives to us is what we need and whatever the Lord wants us to do and walk in is what will be pleasing to Him and to our own spirits. he knows us better than we know ourselves.

we are all brothers and sisters united in a higher purpose than what the evil spirits of the world and those lower but still good spirits in the world knows to unite in... the goods of the world might not be perfect just as our own goods falls short but they point to God. God and his kingdom. the Holy Trinity. Jesus Christ. the Holy Spirit. as much as we can we must be a new heaven and earth and obviously we have to do very little but be pure for God and God does the rest even though he will require of us interactions and for us to be ourselves because this is good as God wants children not ants or robots or even sheep. he will take us if we are ants, but he wants to uplift us to higher things than ants.

paul was a mystic. all Christians who truly seek God are mystics. many Christians don't like that word. i'm not bothered about titles. I want to be spiritual and not carnal. I want to be in Christ and not in the world. I want to be with God and I want God to be with me. I want God to be with each human and I want us all to rejoice together in a place better than paradise. what christian does not want those things? only blind people don't want heaven on earth and since there is so much blindness we fail to help create heaven in earth and the flesh wars with the spirit and the spirit fights the flesh. so the world is what it is.

so what matters is God being with us and clinging to God and for us to be dead to the old and alive with Christ. that's mysticism. I want a religious life as opposed to being part of a religion according to the spirit of the world.

Im just saying that to get closer to God we cannot forget to serve each other in charity because this is the bulk of the NT. If mysticism leads us away from that then we are still blind. Sometimes charity is found in simplicity, and paul promoted charity above everything. Remember that Paul said he spoke in tongues more than anyone? And he also said that he would rather speak five words that edify rather than 1000 in an unknown tongue? His purpose was to edify others This is just my understanding. I dont know many things, please just take it for what its worth, my little contribution.

The greatest in the kingdom is the servant, so if we wish to see great things then charity seems like the place to start and end, perhaps.

Restoresmysoul · Dec 9, 2014

1 Co 13 is very deep. I try to keep it in mind always, although i fail to follow it so often. The primary thing to look at is the definition of charity that this chapter provides. I see the wisdom in this chapter shown in Pauls words of understanding which are found throughout his epistles. He would not eat meat if it caused his brother to become weak, and this is but one example of pauls understanding. His understanding is far deeper than i am able to go at this time, but regardless it still has much value for me, although i may only wade in the shallow end of it.,

x141 · Dec 9, 2014

x141 said:
It is all connected, and will just keep on growing ...

Consider this in your meditations (if he hasn't already lead you into this) his blood is drink indeed whom the son sets free, is free indeed, , if he gives us to drink we never thirst again, it will be in the belly of the ones he gives drink a well springing up unto eternal life, eternal life is to know our Father having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water ... Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

x141 · Dec 9, 2014

Restoresmysoul said:
1 Co 13 is very deep. I try to keep it in mind always, although i fail to follow it so often. The primary thing to look at is the definition of charity that this chapter provides. I see the wisdom in this chapter shown in Pauls words of understanding which are found throughout his epistles. He would not eat meat if it caused his brother to become weak, and this is but one example of pauls understanding. His understanding is far deeper than i am able to go at this time, but regardless it still has much value for me, although i may only wade in the shallow end of it.,

When it comes to God, we are all jumping up and down in a puddle, and calling it deep, but we were created to know him, to have fellowship with him, which is the basis of our fellowship with each other, the more we know him the deeper our fellowship is with each other ... to know God is to know love, even though there is no end to this knowing.

Restoresmysoul · Dec 9, 2014

x141 said:
Consider this in your meditations (if he hasn't already lead you into this) his blood is drink indeed whom the son sets free, is free indeed, , if he gives us to drink we never thirst again, it will be in the belly of the ones he gives drink a well springing up unto eternal life, eternal life is to know our Father having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water ... Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

x141 said:
When it comes to God, we are all jumping up and down in a puddle, and calling it deep, but we were created to know him, to have fellowship with him, which is the basis of our fellowship with each other, the more we know him the deeper our fellowship is with each other ... to know God is to know love, even though there is no end to this knowing.

Well, whatever it is exactly, i like it. Hope, faith and love. Amen.

toLiJC · Dec 10, 2014

x141 said:
x141 said:

Thought precedes all things ...

Click to expand...

or, this is where sin starts.

no, it is not so, there may be no difference for you, but the truth is that there is, and even it is negligible to you, it matters in the faith, because it is so with the spiritual things, or as St. Paul says: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."(Galatians 5:9)

Blessings

x141 · Dec 10, 2014

toLiJC said:
no, it is not so, there may be no difference for you, but the truth is that there is, and even it is negligible to you, it matters in the faith, because it is so with the spiritual things, or as St. Paul says: "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."(Galatians 5:9)

Blessings

What was Paul refering to as being leaven?

toLiJC · Dec 10, 2014

x141 said:
What was Paul refering to as being leaven?

the wrong/false beliefs/persuasion in the faith, for example the doctrine of karma is devilish, but there were even sects ostensibly professing Christ that included it in their creed - Galatians 5 is about the misbelief/heresy considered/represented as unclean leaven

Blessings

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