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Thoughts on the danger of trusting in riches
- Thread starter mikeforjesus
- Start date
I was not replying to you. I was just teaching. I was showing that as scripture says the rich has to be rich in good works to lay hold of eternal life it is safest they seek to give most of their money to the poor that which they dont need for a business to support themselves and for their needs to be ready but since it is not possible for all to do so in time and the bible says any one can be saved I believe it is only required to seek to do what is possible and should not delay as you may die when not seeking to.
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timewerx
the village i--o--t--
Yup, I knew you're just sharing your thoughts and not quoting me. But your original wording I found very confusing.
Better.
I suppose the question is, are we really trying our best or just trying to find excuses?
Have we exhausted all possibilities or gave up on the solution?
But if you're poor yourself, you don't need to make more money just so you can give to the poor.
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Thankyou for your caring reply but I dont believe anymore such is required to ever be saved but to be saved on death for I believe if anyone is attacked for being christian and he dies he will be saved when it is not even possible to give much of your money away. Likewise dying in plane crash. I believe bible supports working to give to needy but not need to be rich that it can be a temptation but I suppose seeking riches is not to blame if your soul prospers just not to love money so you will do anything to get it but should be content if you dont get Paul means if God does not give if He thinks one is not ready so you should not do evil to get it and such riches you must not let as distraction to serving God.
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I changed my mind that I think should teach rich should seek to be rich in good works but if not possible seeking is enough but if one was seeking and one did not die it would be done so should be seeking to do otherwise if you dont you may die when not seeking and if you dont it will be done.Though I thought works are not important because you can not always do because you can be killed we should take that God will take as exception as He allowed one to be killed for preaching which was a command or being christian but works are expected when there is opportunity and that you have to seek to do good while preaching that faith is never alone for those who are genuinely christian that God did not allow one to die so should do otherwise we should assume He will give chance in the world to come and those who are rich should be rich in good works but if they can not do work God accepts that only must seek to do but should seek to do as may not have opportunity to call to christ to seek to do that can die when not seeking to do and if one did not die it would be done but if one did die before can be saved.
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I said this verse translated as below in a page supporting ministry of derek prince and commented below
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Love of money does not mean wrong to want enough money to supply your needs now and for future but the term used is covetousness to not be satisfied unless you have as much as another just because you hate another to be jealous which you dont need and not wrong to want to help others but must not be pursued instead of to neglect relationship with God to seek first the kingdom that you are giving enough time to following God during the day at the same time while you work.
For the saying you can not serve God and mammon does not mean you cant seek mammon but not serve it to put it first so it is master that you should be serving God first that that is the meaning that while you are serving God you are not serving mammon and if you put that first you are not servant of mammon and should be content with what you have now even if seek for more and not to be motivated by jealousy which is tied to hate.
To not worry about tommorow means not to worry about what may happen to what you have now that you dont be charitable because you fear you will not have enough for tommorow and maybe that you work more than you need to for fear of not having enough even if you have enough now for today and future.
Hebrews 13:5
Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
Love of money does not mean wrong to want enough money to supply your needs now and for future but the term used is covetousness to not be satisfied unless you have as much as another just because you hate another to be jealous which you dont need and not wrong to want to help others but must not be pursued instead of to neglect relationship with God to seek first the kingdom that you are giving enough time to following God during the day at the same time while you work.
For the saying you can not serve God and mammon does not mean you cant seek mammon but not serve it to put it first so it is master that you should be serving God first that that is the meaning that while you are serving God you are not serving mammon and if you put that first you are not servant of mammon and should be content with what you have now even if seek for more and not to be motivated by jealousy which is tied to hate.
To not worry about tommorow means not to worry about what may happen to what you have now that you dont be charitable because you fear you will not have enough for tommorow and maybe that you work more than you need to for fear of not having enough even if you have enough now for today and future.
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The bible says how hard it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. The rich are responsible for the poor that is what scripture says make friends of unrighteous mammon that when you fail they may receive you into an everlasting home.The bible commands them to be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life. The church should be where the poor seek help and where many do one should be helping those part of church according to their needs and also distributing money to charities online.Every church should be required by law to use its funds for the poor. And then though I dont know if that is the meaning of the parable of the talents if one failed to give to give to many can then give to church if trustworthy to give to many poor. Though any can be saved as bible says with God all things are possible if it is not possible to give but to call on the Lord but right now one should be seeking to do works and if one does not die one would do because you can die while not seeking to do.
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I am saving the below I saw shared online saying claiming to serve Jesus but chasing after money didnt work out for judas not because I am sure to agree to work to give to poor is wrong but I am going to try to focus not on making more than I need to test it until it is maybe exposed as selfish not working for others too.
My mum says laying up treasure on earth means only if you live to do that only so that there is no room that it replaces your relationship with God and seeking to please Him by your life.
"Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."- John 12:4-6 KJV
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."- Matthew 6:19-21 KJV
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." - Colossians 3:1-3 KJV
My mum says laying up treasure on earth means only if you live to do that only so that there is no room that it replaces your relationship with God and seeking to please Him by your life.
"Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein."- John 12:4-6 KJV
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."- Matthew 6:19-21 KJV
"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." - Colossians 3:1-3 KJV
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"Christianity is a religion of asceticism: If anyone loves the world he is not of the Father. It is a religion which says: No one can serve two masters: God and money, or God and the world"
Pope Shenouda
The bible says we can not serve God and mammon and not to lay up treasure on earth but says having food and clothing we shall be content and implies in clothing all other needs met such as medical but it may be if you want to be saved it may be to be safe you should not have extra money that it is only for the rich to give to poor but everyone should just be content with food and clothing as Paul says. I shall follow this until I know better. It is only necessary to live such from now on even if you cant sell all and doing what you can if you are rich to be rich in good works with your possesions but since you may die still laying up much treasure should find a charity that helps support all people in need but if you cant and just call on the Lord you can be saved but you have to seek to do what is possible so if you die while seeking you are saved and if you dont die it will be done to atleast deposit to bankers if you havent already helped enough people and you may not get chance to so should do now. Also bible says not to worry about tommorow meaning if you have enough for your needs now do not worry about tommorow meaning God will supply either through others or to give work.
Pope Shenouda
The bible says we can not serve God and mammon and not to lay up treasure on earth but says having food and clothing we shall be content and implies in clothing all other needs met such as medical but it may be if you want to be saved it may be to be safe you should not have extra money that it is only for the rich to give to poor but everyone should just be content with food and clothing as Paul says. I shall follow this until I know better. It is only necessary to live such from now on even if you cant sell all and doing what you can if you are rich to be rich in good works with your possesions but since you may die still laying up much treasure should find a charity that helps support all people in need but if you cant and just call on the Lord you can be saved but you have to seek to do what is possible so if you die while seeking you are saved and if you dont die it will be done to atleast deposit to bankers if you havent already helped enough people and you may not get chance to so should do now. Also bible says not to worry about tommorow meaning if you have enough for your needs now do not worry about tommorow meaning God will supply either through others or to give work.
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I believe actually is not wrong to be rich as Abraham and Job was but it must not replace that you have relationship with God but you must give tithe as they did thereby making friends of unrighteous mammon as is not wrong to store for future. For one may want to save so he may help whoever he feels needs help. To not worry for tommorow means not that you cant save for future as also may need for medical bills tommorow not just for needs now and so you can help others but that you trust God if you seek first the kingdom to serve Him you dont have to be worried doing so instead of spending all your time seeking a job to depend only on yourself to be considered worrying where work will come that He will show you to give you a job opportunity if you serve Him though you must still seek but you have to work.
But if others are worried they can give money to charity that God can still accept any in any condition they are if they lost money but they wont be able to help many in need. But such to say must sell all is wrong if one has earthly goals such as as may get married in future and want to spend money such as for dentist that no one judges one for looking like one not looking after oneself but if one does not care for such does not have to worry. By saying not to lay up treasure on earth I believe Jesus means only if you live to do that only so that there is no room that it replaces your relationship with God and seeking to please Him by your life. But since I dont know if my belief is different to church does not mean church may not benefit me if it is real as sacraments are means to help people to being righteous not for those who already are to help guide one to knowing what is right according to the church.
But if others are worried they can give money to charity that God can still accept any in any condition they are if they lost money but they wont be able to help many in need. But such to say must sell all is wrong if one has earthly goals such as as may get married in future and want to spend money such as for dentist that no one judges one for looking like one not looking after oneself but if one does not care for such does not have to worry. By saying not to lay up treasure on earth I believe Jesus means only if you live to do that only so that there is no room that it replaces your relationship with God and seeking to please Him by your life. But since I dont know if my belief is different to church does not mean church may not benefit me if it is real as sacraments are means to help people to being righteous not for those who already are to help guide one to knowing what is right according to the church.
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As much as I want to preach hope and I do believe it is right to hope for all who believed and followed christ according to how they thought is acceptable if it is it is right to leave judgement to christ to follow christ commandments to preach and the rich should be rich in good works to tithe atleast if not have much but otherwise do more to be rich in good works as the bible says and says also to make friends of unrighteous mammon that should give most money if you have alot enough stored for needs of children for education and medical needs and to provide them a house and if not rich can work to save for such needs but often also store some to give to poor and those not rich but have possesions should sell much of their possesions to owners of house for a price it is owners of house that must sell it to others and not lay up treasure to fulfill what christ said to sell what you have for all to be rich in good works. But anyone can be saved if he turns to christ as He said I will cast out none if person just calls on christ if that is all he is able to do but should seek to do what is possible now incase one dies not seeking and that may not be all necessary so should teach may be saved without works but to do incase it is required.
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Facebook reminded me of this memory
It is wrong to say need to sell all the point jesus made was you need to share from your possesions and it assumes you are rich that you have more than enough for your needs that also implied you have much of your money if you are rich in possesions because context is that time where money was in possesions mostly that would be easy to sell such that others are already offering to buy if you sell it and if your riches are mostly in possesions now would be applicable now. But it may be all who have possesions they dont need if see others in need should seek to sell them one at a time many of them which you know now you can easily sell which I think is enough amount of alms because just says to do alms that I dont think must be all or too many just which much you can easily sell that should be enough because of not being able to sell easily because that is not possible if you are not owner of possesions and if you are may sell it for little profit.
I said before
Salvation is possible for anyone who turns to the Lord seeking repentance but person should seek to obey all Jesus has said or person may die when he is not seeking Christ to repent. Jesus said lay not up treasure on earth and fear not little flock it is your Father pleasure to give you kingdom sell what you have and give alms that which is tied to parable of talents that if you have money you still need to do good with it to make friends with unrighteous mammon that is what business does not need and you should increase wealth to give to more but you should still give rest you do not need to poor and if you failed to do and is too late should give to those willing to work to increase it.
One is not saved by works as though works we’re needed you only need to repent when you can to do what you can but if you are not seeking to obey now you are not repentant and can die when not trying for you don’t know when you will die because if you are not trying you are not seeking then and if you didn’t die it would be done but if you turn to Lord at any time if all you can do is call upon Him one is saved. But perhaps one can do more now atleast to tell others to deposit your money to a Christian organisation that is dependable and can give to one children as much for their needs and to be able to support themselves for life but the rest to poor that should be given to Christian Organisation if they can be held accountable for how they spend that all know and one children can decide how it is but not to be used for them.
I was told by one the below
Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven, Matthew 19:24. Jesus is saying it’s difficult but not impossible.
Here is a picture of a needle eye in Jerusalem: you have to take everything off the camel’s back, squeeze the camel through, then put everything back on the camel’s back! Hard work!
I suppose that is because those who have riches may be dedicated to put priority to its enjoyment rather than serving God that one should share money and if one saves to increase money it is to give but is safest to give all money you don’t need for business
It is wrong to say need to sell all the point jesus made was you need to share from your possesions and it assumes you are rich that you have more than enough for your needs that also implied you have much of your money if you are rich in possesions because context is that time where money was in possesions mostly that would be easy to sell such that others are already offering to buy if you sell it and if your riches are mostly in possesions now would be applicable now. But it may be all who have possesions they dont need if see others in need should seek to sell them one at a time many of them which you know now you can easily sell which I think is enough amount of alms because just says to do alms that I dont think must be all or too many just which much you can easily sell that should be enough because of not being able to sell easily because that is not possible if you are not owner of possesions and if you are may sell it for little profit.
I said before
Salvation is possible for anyone who turns to the Lord seeking repentance but person should seek to obey all Jesus has said or person may die when he is not seeking Christ to repent. Jesus said lay not up treasure on earth and fear not little flock it is your Father pleasure to give you kingdom sell what you have and give alms that which is tied to parable of talents that if you have money you still need to do good with it to make friends with unrighteous mammon that is what business does not need and you should increase wealth to give to more but you should still give rest you do not need to poor and if you failed to do and is too late should give to those willing to work to increase it.
One is not saved by works as though works we’re needed you only need to repent when you can to do what you can but if you are not seeking to obey now you are not repentant and can die when not trying for you don’t know when you will die because if you are not trying you are not seeking then and if you didn’t die it would be done but if you turn to Lord at any time if all you can do is call upon Him one is saved. But perhaps one can do more now atleast to tell others to deposit your money to a Christian organisation that is dependable and can give to one children as much for their needs and to be able to support themselves for life but the rest to poor that should be given to Christian Organisation if they can be held accountable for how they spend that all know and one children can decide how it is but not to be used for them.
I was told by one the below
Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven, Matthew 19:24. Jesus is saying it’s difficult but not impossible.
Here is a picture of a needle eye in Jerusalem: you have to take everything off the camel’s back, squeeze the camel through, then put everything back on the camel’s back! Hard work!
I suppose that is because those who have riches may be dedicated to put priority to its enjoyment rather than serving God that one should share money and if one saves to increase money it is to give but is safest to give all money you don’t need for business
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What are your thoughts why it is hard for rich to enter kingdom ? In what way is it necessary to remove everything from camels back and put it on again does it mean you must sell all and then you can get again and if you get again wont you be considered the rich man again and if we take literally remove everything you cant have any possesions at all but jesus said only to sell everything to make a point he to rich man that he knows no one is perfect to fall short in one area that only must sell much you all what you dont need for yourself in future to for living well and to do any service to God.
What are your thoughts on these verses posted by TobyMac
Does that mean it is wrong to have any possesions ? It seems to mean just do not make your life about storing up all earthly treasure so that you dont also give all you can so you are not rich to God as He also said about the parable of the rich fool so is he who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God for though He said do not lay any treasure the point may also may not be that the treasure would lose your soul if you are rich toward God but it decays so that you have no reward maybe so that it is better not to have then you will have more treasure in heaven or that if you have possesions they are not treasured for itself so that it is not for sake of need to serve God but only that you are putting too much time in things that time belongs to God. Or it means not that you cant have some possesions that you need but after what you dont need you should be giving your time to God not acquiring more riches than you need.
What are your thoughts on these verses posted by TobyMac
Does that mean it is wrong to have any possesions ? It seems to mean just do not make your life about storing up all earthly treasure so that you dont also give all you can so you are not rich to God as He also said about the parable of the rich fool so is he who lays up treasure for himself and is not rich toward God for though He said do not lay any treasure the point may also may not be that the treasure would lose your soul if you are rich toward God but it decays so that you have no reward maybe so that it is better not to have then you will have more treasure in heaven or that if you have possesions they are not treasured for itself so that it is not for sake of need to serve God but only that you are putting too much time in things that time belongs to God. Or it means not that you cant have some possesions that you need but after what you dont need you should be giving your time to God not acquiring more riches than you need.
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The below is true but my dad explains that is not wrong to live to take advantage of resources but the sin is when one places trust in resources not to have trust in God not sure what he means but I think to mean that one thinks he can look after himself that he does not need God help that he would always be stable without God help or to worship the work of one hand to consider it was all his effort and not from God so that if he loses things he will be in trouble without trusting God to support him and also knowing one does not live by bread alone to trust in it to give life but to serve God to therefore trust in God for life not self.
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I believe it is not right to take risk that bible does say the rich should be rich in good works so if they have not given much already they should give much to a charity not asking too much not to provide for family but after if have alot should as Jesus said make friends of unrighteous mammon that when you fail they may receive you into an everlasting home that does not say how much but as Paul said rich is to be rich in good works they should only because one does not know when one will die that person could have done that he has no opportunity to call to christ in repentance for bible does say how hard it is for rich man to enter kingdom but with God all things are possible.
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I found the verses to prove children are blessed or cursed from actions of parents but whether directly or because God will bless them with money to share but even if cursed God wants to help all
Psalm 112
1 Praise the LORD!
Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,
Who delights greatly in His commandments.
2 His descendants will be mighty on earth;
The generation of the upright will be blessed.
3 Wealth and riches will be in his house,
And his righteousness endures forever.
It goes on to explain what those commands are as below that we also see being merciful to those in need may keep one safe from tribulation
Psalm 112:5
5 A good man deals graciously and lends;
He will guide his affairs with discretion.
6 Surely he will never be shaken;
The righteous will be in everlasting remembrance.
7 He will not be afraid of evil tidings;
His heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.
8 His heart is established;
He will not be afraid,
Until he sees his desire upon his enemies.
9 He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever;
His horn will be exalted with honor.
10 The wicked will see it and be grieved;
He will gnash his teeth and melt away;
The desire of the wicked shall perish.
Also this is mentioned in 2 corinthians 9:6-9
Though it is mentioned we don’t give grudgingly or of necessity it does not mean you don’t have to give but doing so with no love will not count and by necessity just means even if not grudingly which means one will seek to resist is not right to give even if not resisting but seeking to give as commanded but not having a change of heart that one should be happy to help others in need
This is proven by other scripture rich man and lazarus that he was condemned by not giving
I also read this part of my daily reading today
Psalm 41:1-2
1 Blessed is he who considers the poor;
The LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2 The LORD will preserve him and keep him alive,
And he will be blessed on the earth;
You will not deliver him to the will of his enemies.
Psalm 112
1 Praise the LORD!
Blessed is the man who fears the LORD,
Who delights greatly in His commandments.
2 His descendants will be mighty on earth;
The generation of the upright will be blessed.
3 Wealth and riches will be in his house,
And his righteousness endures forever.
It goes on to explain what those commands are as below that we also see being merciful to those in need may keep one safe from tribulation
Psalm 112:5
5 A good man deals graciously and lends;
He will guide his affairs with discretion.
6 Surely he will never be shaken;
The righteous will be in everlasting remembrance.
7 He will not be afraid of evil tidings;
His heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.
8 His heart is established;
He will not be afraid,
Until he sees his desire upon his enemies.
9 He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever;
His horn will be exalted with honor.
10 The wicked will see it and be grieved;
He will gnash his teeth and melt away;
The desire of the wicked shall perish.
Also this is mentioned in 2 corinthians 9:6-9
Though it is mentioned we don’t give grudgingly or of necessity it does not mean you don’t have to give but doing so with no love will not count and by necessity just means even if not grudingly which means one will seek to resist is not right to give even if not resisting but seeking to give as commanded but not having a change of heart that one should be happy to help others in need
This is proven by other scripture rich man and lazarus that he was condemned by not giving
I also read this part of my daily reading today
Psalm 41:1-2
1 Blessed is he who considers the poor;
The LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2 The LORD will preserve him and keep him alive,
And he will be blessed on the earth;
You will not deliver him to the will of his enemies.
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God may not curse those who don’t tithe before a time of trouble but I am not saying for sure I know some must go to church but to any needy might be counted as a tithe but I don't know I am just saying so incase the church one goes to may be greedy not using it for the Lord but there are other ministries that may provide accountability of all the money given to them by people and where it was used that may need to give to them but God does not punish when it is not time to punish them.
But such might lead to going through a time of trouble even great tribulation that also if rich having more than enough for future children needs I think more than tithe is required as bible says the rich are to be rich in good works if such is necessary as scripture may imply if they don't repent before. He said give and it shall be given to you though His sun rises on the good and evil to let them all prosper for a time they just prosper from their own work but they may not have the special protection in time of trouble as those who give to needy and not special blessing of those who give as psalm 112 says and Jesus says make friends of unrighteous mammon that when you fail they may receive you into an everlasting home
But such might lead to going through a time of trouble even great tribulation that also if rich having more than enough for future children needs I think more than tithe is required as bible says the rich are to be rich in good works if such is necessary as scripture may imply if they don't repent before. He said give and it shall be given to you though His sun rises on the good and evil to let them all prosper for a time they just prosper from their own work but they may not have the special protection in time of trouble as those who give to needy and not special blessing of those who give as psalm 112 says and Jesus says make friends of unrighteous mammon that when you fail they may receive you into an everlasting home
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It is wrong to seek too much riches continually one should be satisfied with having enough money to support one life physically for life and medical bills and needs for shelter such as house for children for them to marry and their needs that this is included in having food and clothing we shall be content. Those therefore who have enough should not seek for more for sake of pleasure and they should tithe and if rich give alot to be rich in good works.
Actually I believe is ok to work for the sake of helping needy that God wants that part of meaning of parable of the talents just not to store up for oneself but everytime you make alot you give to another needy people. And is ok to keep some money for businesses to always make profit enough profit to help others but keep giving away when make.
Actually I believe is ok to work for the sake of helping needy that God wants that part of meaning of parable of the talents just not to store up for oneself but everytime you make alot you give to another needy people. And is ok to keep some money for businesses to always make profit enough profit to help others but keep giving away when make.
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I know my posting behaviour does not seem stable but my posts just reveal ideas that are already there that people teach that people already know may not be true because everyone can be saved and know they are responsible for themselves but they have to figure out if such works are important only incase one has not opportunity to repent to turn to the Lord which is acceptable if that is all one can do but to figure out if can do more to what extent one must do works but one should seek to do all works possible to be safe.
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I am following catholic church to see if can give more understanding but it may be not necessary and that we have enough understanding but I am accepting it as true that you have to accept it unless christ proves otherwise.This was taught by Joyce Meyer which I thought was good that I am glad she is teaching truth now if she wasnt before which I labelled as
Seek God before money and dont store up more riches than need
Seek God before money and dont store up more riches than need
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