Thoughts on Rob Bell?

[SnowyMacie]

How to send someone to Hell...

Halo Spartan Heaven - YouTube

 

[crishmael]

I'm not a fan of Calvinism, in fact, I consider myself almost anti-calvinism.

Yeah. And Crish, while it doesn't say there is no Hell, it clearly does say Hell is real (just not the traditional fire and eternal, conscious torment) It does imply partial universalism. Regardless, I enjoyed the book because it makes you think and raises questions.

What do you mean by partial universalism?

 

[KingCrimson250]

I personally have no issue with hopeful universalism, and find it bizarre that there are so many who are opposed to it.

 

[crishmael]

I personally have no issue with hopeful universalism, and find it bizarre that there are so many who are opposed to it.

Everyone's got some d-bag they hope goes to hell? Idk.

 

[SnowyMacie]

What do you mean by partial universalism?

There's a technical name for it, the theory that not everyone will be saved but that it is still possible to be saved without ever knowing Christ (i.e. he says that how do we know that Ghandi is really in Hell). I may be reading into it a bit too much.

 

[crishmael]

There's a technical name for it, the theory that not everyone will be saved but that it is still possible to be saved without ever knowing Christ (i.e. he says that how do we know that Ghandi is really in Hell). I may be reading into it a bit too much.

I think I heard that termed "inclusivism" or something similar. I know he began talking about that topic at the beginning of the book, but can't remember how he developed it. I personally agree with that idea though.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I think I heard that termed "inclusivism" or something similar. I know he began talking about that topic at the beginning of the book, but can't remember how he developed it. I personally agree with that idea though.

I consider my views to be somewhere along the lines of inclusivism. I'd grab my copy to look, but my friend is borrowing it, and he's in Chicago all summer.

 

[KingCrimson250]

Everyone's got some d-bag they hope goes to hell? Idk.

Heh. I know you've got the Mark Driscoll types who are like "God is a MAN and men punish their children therefore there is a hell!" and as has been said before Calvanistas in general seem to be very big on the idea that hell HAS to exist (possibly due to men like John Piper promoting double predestination, which is classically speaking a heresy but no worries, right?)

 

[SnowyMacie]

Heh. I know you've got the Mark Driscoll types who are like "God is a MAN and men punish their children therefore there is a hell!" and as has been said before Calvanistas in general seem to be very big on the idea that hell HAS to exist (possibly due to men like John Piper promoting double predestination, which is classically speaking a heresy but no worries, right?)

What is double predestination?

 

[crishmael]

What is double predestination?

That God has elected some to eternal salvation and others to eternal damnation from before all creation. It gives him glory or something from those grateful they weren't created to be tormented forever.

 

[SnowyMacie]

That God has elected some to eternal salvation and others to eternal damnation from before all creation. It gives him glory or something from those grateful they weren't created to be tormented forever.

That sounds like heresy if I've ever heard it.

 

[KingCrimson250]

That sounds like heresy if I've ever heard it.

Even many Calvinists would object to it, but for some reason it's been making a comeback.

 

[dayhiker]

I've seen a little of Rob Bell's videos on the web, liked them. Haven't read his book on Love wins yet. I do know Rob Bell believes hell exists, but if I understand him right he feels there are was people can avoid hell even after death.

Personally, I don't see why death on earth has to be the cut off for choosing Jesus. I've even read testimonies of near death experiences of people who repented after they died.

 

[sampa]

"dynamic speaker", as quoted by a girl I overheard in a bathroom after worship service. That speaks for itself, I never really was drawn to his teachings after.

 

[Paulie079]

Heh. I know you've got the Mark Driscoll types who are like "God is a MAN and men punish their children therefore there is a hell!" and as has been said before Calvanistas in general seem to be very big on the idea that hell HAS to exist (possibly due to men like John Piper promoting double predestination, which is classically speaking a heresy but no worries, right?)

If you're talking about the neo-Reformed camp in general, I think the general idea regarding hell is that no hell means no gospel. It's not that it has to exist but that it's biblical.

That God has elected some to eternal salvation and others to eternal damnation from before all creation. It gives him glory or something from those grateful they weren't created to be tormented forever.

Clearly you don't represent the argument well, which is sad. I don't agree with it myself, but no one is going to develop informed beliefs if they never understand what it is they disagree with.

As for Bell in general, I haven't yet read his book, but the impression that I received from others that I know who have read it is that he is good at raising questions and not very good at answering them, which for a pastor is not an entirely good quality.

 

[crishmael]

Clearly you don't represent the argument well, which is sad. I don't agree with it myself, but no one is going to develop informed beliefs if they never understand what it is they disagree with.

I had no intention to represent the argument in its entirety, only succinctly. I actually believe double predestination is the logical extension of the Calvinist concept of predestination, and I'm often confused as to why so many want to distance themselves from it.

 

[SnowyMacie]

As for Bell in general, I haven't yet read his book, but the impression that I received from others that I know who have read it is that he is good at raising questions and not very good at answering them, which for a pastor is not an entirely good quality.

His point wasn't to answer the questions, he's said that in interviews. I think, if I remember right, his point is doing so is that he doesn't want people relying on him for their interpretations of scripture, which is something a lot Christians do...rely on their pastors for interpretation of scripture.

 

[Paulie079]

His point wasn't to answer the questions, he's said that in interviews. I think, if I remember right, his point is doing so is that he doesn't want people relying on him for their interpretations of scripture, which is something a lot Christians do...rely on their pastors for interpretation of scripture.

But that's part of what pastors are supposed to do--teach the Bible. By raising questions without answering them, he's not really doing a very integral part of his job. You know as well as I do that leaving people to forming their own conclusions is not a great way to go. I understand not wanting people to be brainwashed by a certain interpretation of Scripture, but there is also a point where you can teach your congregation to be self-feeding from the Bible so that they can challenge anything you say that they might find to be unbiblical.

 

[Rhamiel]

Heh. I know you've got the Mark Driscoll types who are like "God is a MAN and men punish their children therefore there is a hell!" and as has been said before Calvanistas in general seem to be very big on the idea that hell HAS to exist (possibly due to men like John Piper promoting double predestination, which is classically speaking a heresy but no worries, right?)

(bolded by me)
i would say that the idea that hell does exist is very biblical
not that every sermon has to be fire and brimstone
but it is good to remember that hell is real

I had no intention to represent the argument in its entirety, only succinctly. I actually believe double predestination is the logical extension of the Calvinist concept of predestination, and I'm often confused as to why so many want to distance themselves from it.

I would agree that double predestination seems to be the logical end of Calvinism

 

[SnowyMacie]

But that's part of what pastors are supposed to do--teach the Bible. By raising questions without answering them, he's not really doing a very integral part of his job. You know as well as I do that leaving people to forming their own conclusions is not a great way to go. I understand not wanting people to be brainwashed by a certain interpretation of Scripture, but there is also a point where you can teach your congregation to be self-feeding from the Bible so that they can challenge anything you say that they might find to be unbiblical.

So ministers have to have all the answers?

I do think that that yes it is part of a minister's job to teach the Bible, there are plenty of videos of Rob Bell teaching the Bible not raising questions. If you don't raise questions, how will you learn? I agree people forming their own conclusions is not a way to go, but that's not what Love Wins does it brings questions to mind, not encourage people to form their own conclusions. I guess I don't understand where you're coming from, I don't see anything wrong with leaving questions unanswered.