Thoughts on Qur'an burning...

chingchang · Sep 11, 2010

Fellow CF-ers,

I've been giving some thought to this Qur'an burning thing and I'd like to share them with you and get some feedback.

So...what is the big deal? I mean...can't they just print more books like we "Christians" do? But the book is Holy. No! The book is not Holy!!! The words in the book and the message may be Holy...but the book is not! The book is just paper. Muslims make themselves out to look like complete unthinking idiots when they react like a swarm of bees to someone burning a book. Just print more for cryin' out loud and quit acting like a 3 year old who doesn't want to share his new toy!

I could care less if they burn the Bible. We'll just print more. Geesh.

Finally...here is my conclusion: I wish that every "Holy" book in the entire world (yes...electronic copies too) would be burned. Then...we'd have to start seeking God in the Spirit and start living out of the love in our hearts...because that is all we would have. The fruit of "Holy" Books is sour!

Hugs All! & Good-on-ya!
CC

Tenka · Sep 11, 2010

chingchang said:
I could care less if they burn the Bible. We'll just print more. Geesh.

Burning replaceable books doesn't concern me so much as the REASON it's being done and who is encouraging it.

The Nihilist · Sep 11, 2010

In christianity, the bible is basically a book that provides different accounts of things that God did, some recordings of instructions from God, etc. Christians generally accept that the information in the bible is sacred, but that we're seeing God's truth through a human veil. It's recorded by men, it's translated by men, etc.
For Islam, the Koran itself is sacred. It's not a recording, it's untouched by the hands of men. It is a direct recitation of the words of God, and unless I'm mistaken, it is eternal in nature. Moreover, the Koran cannot be translated. Only the Arabic text is the Koran, while all others are merely translations.
While you may see the burning of the Koran as the equivalent of the destruction of any other highly regarded book, a Muslim would see this more as the equivalent of deucing on a piece of the original Cross, or any other sacred relic.

deborahnan · Sep 11, 2010

a pastor of a 50 member church got so much attention...................

Tenka · Sep 11, 2010

deborahnan said:
a pastor of a 50 member church got so much attention...................

Media snowball.
Tension has been building over opposition to the "ground zero mosque"and the upcoming Sept. 11 anniversary and some journalists had anticipated this book burning stunt to be a tipping point for total communication breakdown.

Not to say that all journalists came to the conclusion independently but once an event gets hyped enough it is obligatory for everyone to report every little detail about it and of course, once the public has been worked into a frenzy it the obligatory for official persons to weigh in on it.

chingchang · Sep 11, 2010

Tenka said:
Burning replaceable books doesn't concern me so much as the REASON it's being done and who is encouraging it.

Right...the dude is a jerk no doubt. But...knowing that...Muslims could "score points" by ignoring this guy it just seems to me like their reaction speaks volumes to their religion. That Pastor is one bad dude for sure...but the irate Muslims are just as bad.

CC

chingchang · Sep 11, 2010

The Nihilist said:
In christianity, the bible is basically a book that provides different accounts of things that God did, some recordings of instructions from God, etc. Christians generally accept that the information in the bible is sacred, but that we're seeing God's truth through a human veil. It's recorded by men, it's translated by men, etc.
For Islam, the Koran itself is sacred. It's not a recording, it's untouched by the hands of men. It is a direct recitation of the words of God, and unless I'm mistaken, it is eternal in nature. Moreover, the Koran cannot be translated. Only the Arabic text is the Koran, while all others are merely translations.
While you may see the burning of the Koran as the equivalent of the destruction of any other highly regarded book, a Muslim would see this more as the equivalent of deucing on a piece of the original Cross, or any other sacred relic.

O.k...fine. But what is the Qur'an? It is words...not paper...it is a message. People can burn the book all they want and the Qur'an is still the Qur'an. It can be printed millions of times over. Burning the Qur'an is like shooting the bad guy in Terminator 2 (the bad cop dude).

CC

Axioma · Sep 11, 2010

It's almost as if different religions have different religious attitudes about, say, the nature of their holy text.

A Rhys · Sep 11, 2010

My concern with the burning isn't as dire as my concern with how it is being handled. The press and 'leaders' in government seem to be working the public panic angle of Al-Qaeda emerging from their caves with high explosives.

It seems like this would be a good opportunity for Islamic PR people to educate the populace about their cultural norms and why a Qur'an burning is so much more offensive to them than it is to us, and the government should be taking the opportunity to reinforce our fundamental rights of speech and expression by reminding our people that we don't have to show deference to holy text, but should nonetheless try to co-exist respectfully.

The people orchestrating the burning won't be swayed by the PR effort, but if everyone else from the President on down is genuinely concerned about 'rising Islamophobia' they better stop the fearmongering lest any Islamic backlash recruit more people to ignorance.

FallenPaladin · Sep 11, 2010

Its about respect. People with no self respect let others disrespect them. Muslims have self respect. Hence, the difference between Muslims and Christians.

chingchang · Sep 11, 2010

FallenPaladin said:
Its about respect. People with no self respect let others disrespect them. Muslims have self respect. Hence, the difference between Muslims and Christians.

I was thinking it was about ignorance...on both sides. I still think the Muslim reaction should be "go ahead...we'll print more...you can burn a book but you can't touch the words...which are eternal in nature". The fact that they get so bent out of shape because somebody burns a book or draws Muhammad says a lot about their ability to reason. Just sayin'...

CC

Tenka · Sep 11, 2010

chingchang said:
Right...the dude is a jerk no doubt. But...knowing that...Muslims could "score points" by ignoring this guy it just seems to me like their reaction speaks volumes to their religion. That Pastor is one bad dude for sure...but the irate Muslims are just as bad.

Most Muslims have ignored it, particularly in the US. But nobody "scores points" by staying quiet and keeping the peace, take a look at these forums and you'll see that all the focus has been on some Afghanistanian muslims who went a bit nuts on a flag and not a word about the billion others who didn't.

fallenapladin said:
Its about respect. People with no self respect let others disrespect them.

Did you learn that from a 50Cent lyric or something?

FallenPaladin · Sep 11, 2010

Tenka said:
Did you learn that from a 50Cent lyric or something?

My grandmother.

Gracchus · Sep 11, 2010

chingchang said:
I was thinking it was about ignorance...on both sides.

Well, yes. Some Christians and some Muslims act like stupid jerks.

I still think the Muslim reaction should be "go ahead...we'll print more...you can burn a book but you can't touch the words...which are eternal in nature".

And that is probably the reaction of many Muslims. But reasonable reactions on either side don't make headlines on the front page. That pastor is deliberately trying to goad Muslims. And he knows, no doubt, how to do it because he knows what would enrage him.

"He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool shall be servant to the wise of heart." --- KJV Proverbs 11:29

These days the world is one house.

The fact that they get so bent out of shape because somebody burns a book or draws Muhammad says a lot about their ability to reason. Just sayin'...

And the fact that the Christians would would deliberately goad Muslims says something about Christians?

There are puerile vicious morons in all religions. (Except mine of course!)

Jade Margery · Sep 11, 2010

Look, as an advocate for free speech, I have to support the pastor's right to burn whatever books he feels like so long as they don't belong to somebody else. On the other hand, I can still think he's an insensitive idiot for doing it.

If he just wanted to burn the books as a symbolic gesture for his congregation, they could have done it quietly and no one would have cared or noticed. By making it a big deal and advertising it, it's clear that the only reason to do this is to insult a significant percentage of the population. Plenty of people get violent when they are insulted. I would have to be stupid to walk up to random gangbangers and call them *cough* 'wussies', even though I have a right to. I might reasonably expect that people in tough social situations who rely on maintaining respect through force and violence may react violently to perceived slights, and that's not even touching the religious angle.

Some people take the position that we shouldn't be cowed into treating other people's cultures with respect because of fear of retaliation. That's totally true. We should treat other cultures with respect because that's how we would want to be treated and that's how you make friends out of enemies.

Tielec · Sep 11, 2010

Yet christian responses to a certain mosque at ground zero are completely rational?

Protocol11 · Sep 11, 2010

Right...the dude is a jerk no doubt. But...knowing that...Muslims could "score points" by ignoring this guy it just seems to me like their reaction speaks volumes to their religion. That Pastor is one bad dude for sure...but the irate Muslims are just as bad.

No, the irate, violent muslims are 100 times worse than this preacher ever could be.

a Muslim would see this more as the equivalent of deucing on a piece of the original Cross, or any other sacred relic.

Three words: Deal with it.

mcswan · Sep 11, 2010

Tenka said:
Media snowball.
Tension has been building over opposition to the "ground zero mosque"and the upcoming Sept. 11 anniversary and some journalists had anticipated this book burning stunt to be a tipping point for total communication breakdown.

Not to say that all journalists came to the conclusion independently but once an event gets hyped enough it is obligatory for everyone to report every little detail about it and of course, once the public has been worked into a frenzy it the obligatory for official persons to weigh in on it.

Media snowball? You mean the media hype the news, and gullible people get all excited?

Hate crimes against Muslims rare, FBI data shows | McClatchy

Inconvenient Truth: 10 Times More Hate Crimes Against Jews Than Muslims | NewsBusters.org

"Another interesting data point: 4.7 percent of hate crimes in 2008 were motivated by anti-Catholic bias. Another 3.7 percent were anti-Protestant. So from a raw numbers perspective, there were more hate crimes against Christians in America in 2008 than there were against Muslims. Given our large Christian population, it's true that each Christian is far less likely to be victimized, but the numbers still show that religious haters have not been singling out Muslims."

Is that the information you get from CNN and MSNBC and the New York Times?

GQ Chris · Sep 11, 2010

Americans need to stop capitulating to their thuggery and intimidation.

The Nihilist · Sep 11, 2010

Thoughts on Qur'an burning...

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