Thoughts on Jesus/Bible promoting murdering homosexuals

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KomissarSteve

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Those are indeed how those verses are commonly understood, but as I've pointed out already, not everyone is united behind the belief that this was intended as a categorical rejection of homosexuality, in all times, under all circumstances - just as the prohibitions against touching a woman while she's on her period clearly don't apply to the 21st century Western world, either.
 
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tapero

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Biblical condemnations of homosexual acts are manifestly obvious:

Oxford Companion to the Bible:

: "Leviticus 20.13 prohibits sexual relations between men, defines
them as an 'abomination,' and places them under the death penalty (see
also Lev. 18.22). Ethical considerations such as consent, coercion, or
the power imbalance inherent in adult-child relations are not legally
relevant in these passages (nor in the surrounding levitical laws on
adultery, incest, and inappropriate behavior with animals). Thus, regardless of the sexual
relationship of the participants (a man and his consenting male
partner, an adult male whom he had raped, or a child victim), all are
equally culpable, since all are equally defiled (see Philo, De spec.
leg. 3.7.37-42).

: "Like Leviticus, Paul does not employ the ethical categories of
consent or age for distinguishing between sanctioned and condemned
sexual relations. His letters contain linguistic and conceptual
parallels to the levitical laws about same-sex sexual relations. Thus,
1 Corinthians 6.9-10 states that "the ones who lie with men" (NSRV:
"sodomites"; cf. Lev. 20.13) will not "inherit the kingdom of God"
(see also the Deutero-Pauline 1 Tim. 1.10; and see Ethical Lists).
Paul describes male-male sexual relations as "impurity" and asserts
that such men "deserve to die" (Rom. 1.24-32). Paul extends
prohibition to include sexual relations between women (Rom. 1.26) as
do other postbiblical Jewish writings. Like other writers in the Roman
world such as Philo, Ptolemy, and Martial, Paul sees same-sex sexual
relations as transgressions of hierarchical gender boundaries. For
example, "unnatural" (Rom. 1.26) most likely refers to the women's
attempt to transcend the passive, subordinate role accorded to them by
nature. Similarly, the men have relinquished the superordinate, active
role (see 1 Cor. 11.13) and have descended to the level of women.

: Some postbiblical Jewish and early Christian writers specifically
define the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 18-19.28; cf. Judg. 19) as
same-sex relations rather than as rape or inhospitality; see, for
example, Jude 7 and Philo, De Abrahamo 26.134-36 (cf. 2 Pet. 2.6;
Testament of Naphtali 3.4-5; 4.1).

: Biblical prohibitions of same-sex love directly influenced later
Roman law and, indeed, Western legal statutes until the present (e.g.,
sodomy statutes in the U.S. criminal law). See also Sex.--Bernadette
J. Brooten

Encyclopedia of Early Christianity:

Wright 1

Wright 2

David F Wright, MA, DD

Immoralism, Homosexual Unhealth, and Scripture

Robert A. J. Gagnon is Associate Professor of New Testament at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. He came to PTS in the Fall of 1994 after a one-year position as Visiting Professor of Religion at Middlebury College in Vermont. He has a B.A. degree from Dartmouth College, an M.T.S. from Harvard Divinity School, and a Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary. His main fields of interest are Pauline theology and sexual issues in the Bible. He is a member both of the Society of Biblical Literature and of the Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas [Society of New Testament Studies].


Not sure of the point of your post. God condemned many things in Leviticus for His people, not just homosexuality, and He is God, and thus able to do so.

There are many such listed in Leviticus.

Christians should not condemn any one for any sin, but they do. We are not to judge. We can make a judgement in our mind, but we are not to judge others.
 
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Brennin

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Those are indeed how those verses are commonly understood, but as I've pointed out already, not everyone is united behind the belief that this was intended as a categorical rejection of homosexuality, in all times, under all circumstances - just as the prohibitions against touching a woman while she's on her period clearly don't apply to the 21st century Western world, either.

"Scholars" who reject the traditional translations do so because they want to legitimize homosexual acts, not because their contrary views have any basis in reality.
 
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KomissarSteve

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"Scholars" who reject the traditional translations do so because they want to legitimize homosexual acts, not because their contrary views have any basis in reality.
So says your opinion - not that this has anything to do with scholars, mind you. The issue I raised is an ethical and theological one.
 
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Brennin

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So says your opinion - not that this has anything to do with scholars, mind you. The issue I raised is an ethical and theological one.

On this issue, my "opinion" and the facts coincide.
 
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Brennin

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LOL, no they don't. Sorry, but you do not have the credentials necessary to proclaim what God intended when He inspired mankind to write those verses.
It is a simple matter of properly translating the Koine, and the only translation based in reality condemns all homoerotic acts. Game over for you, I'm afraid.
 
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EnemyPartyII

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I think it's strange how some highlight what they believe paul said about gays yet ignore the rest. I say we should set our priorities in the caste of Jesus and walk that path. Tell us again, what did Jesus have to say about gays?
Makes sense to me.
 
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KomissarSteve

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It is a simple matter of properly translating the Koine,

...and then applying your narrow interpretation to it. As I pointed out, and you evidently ignored, there are many strictures in the Scriptures that applied then and don't apply now. You have yet to demonstrate that this is not one of those.

Game over for you, I'm afraid.

Goodness - first the Luther-hate, and now this. You're really aiming for the "classiest poster on CF" title, aren't you?:doh:
 
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tapero

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I think it's strange how some highlight what they believe paul said about gays yet ignore the rest. I say we should set our priorities in the caste of Jesus and walk that path. Tell us again, what did Jesus have to say about gays?

i don't ignore the rest of the bible and i don't single out any particular sin referenced in the ot as well in the nt.

we all alike sin.
 
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KomissarSteve

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i don't ignore the rest of the bible and i don't single out any particular sin referenced in the ot as well in the nt.

we all alike sin.
No, but there are certainly highly vocal elements among the Christian Right who do focus more on homosexuality as a sin than other sins. (assuming that it is)
 
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tapero

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No, but there are certainly highly vocal elements among the Christian Right who do focus more on homosexuality as a sin than other sins. (assuming that it is)

That's their deal.

They do much worse than that..they attack each other as well for not being saved like them, or believing like them, etc.

Many do not remember themselves before Christ, and forget what it's like.

Any sin in the bible is evil..all sin is evil. The bible is not an exhaustive list of sins, and we come up with more every day.

If it's in the power of some to change laws to protect others, great..i don't get involved in politics, didn't see Jesus doing it in the bible, except when he went to the temple and cleared out the moneychangers and such.

But i do understand why some Christians fight for change over some things, and am glad they do, though i am not vocal except to my few friends and then it is always in the context that we all alike sin.

I don't like any political stuff in churches, doesn't belong there.

But a church has a right to cast out a member who is in a known sin, regardless of what sin that is, and we all sin.

I only joined the first church I belonged to and never joined another again, no reason, just saw no need to.

So, if one doesn't like the responsibilities that come along with being a member of a church it is best not to join. Because they if they have in their rules church discipline, will do so, which is basically to speak with that person and confront them of their sin, if he doesn't hear, then two go to the person, if he still doesn't hear, then he is tossed out of the church.

Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come.

This means to me I best not cause my brother or another to sin..

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing
.

So, while I don't go out of the way to go after people with particular sins, (how can I, for I too sin) if it comes up and someone asks me specifically I will tell them the truth.

We all sin, our hearts are loaded with sin. Many Christians do not recognize this, and so call out particular sins that bug them. Have to say though there are particular sins that can sway children and young people; if taught; this is something I believe is very wrong, and again am glad for those who do speak up.

But I am not one of those who speak up, unless someone ask me a question, personally. However the bible is clear, many sins are listed in it, and we are commanded not to sin, though we still do, many Christians try not to sin, but we do and always will sin, until we are in heaven.

Blessings,
tapero
 
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KomissarSteve

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Well, that's all very well, but the fact of the matter is, powerful contingents of the Christian Right have convinced many people, Christians and non-Christians alike, that overturning Roe v. Wade and outlawing gay marriage are Christian goals. Whether or not you want to get involved in politics doesn't matter very much anymore, unfortunately; the question now lies before every single Christian in the United States - "Regardless of whether or not you believe abortion and homosexuality are sinful, do you believe in legislating morality regarding these issues?" And anyone who answers "yes" to this question is dreaming if they think that Christianity as a whole isn't going to suffer and become increasingly marginalized because of this.
 
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