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Thoughts on Jesus/Bible promoting murdering homosexuals

Discussion in 'Archived - Ethics & Morality' started by xXThePrimeDirectiveXx, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    That would establish that the New Testament authors believed Jesus was with/and was God.

    Now that we have connected those dots, let's look at the Old Testament:

    Leviticus 20:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 13 "'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.



    So here we have scripture attributed to the biblegod saying unto Moses to put to death homosexuals...murdering someone just for sexual preference. Even if someone wants to debate the Jesus/God thing...there's still the issue of the OT god commanding murder of homosexuals.

    What is the rationale to support such ideology of hate?
     
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  2. FadingWhispers3

    FadingWhispers3 Senior Veteran

    +226
    Humanist
    US-Others
    It seems clear to me that if ever dogma and humanity oppose each other, we ought to side with humanity.

    The answer to the rational of supporting murdering homosexuals is... don't. Murdering is wrong.
     
  3. Glad to hear it. My problem is with folks who hold the Bible has some exalted foundation, yet it affirms genocide, murder, slavery and rape. No matter how many good messages it may contain, one barbaric commandment ruins the whole thing. It's like a Priest who works for the good of humanity, but then molests a child. His life is stained.
     
  4. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

    +445
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    It's got nothing to do with "hate", it's intolerance of sin.

    And just in case anyone is thinking about asking, "why don't you go out and kill homosexuals?", we don't because that is the old covenant between God and Israel and doesn't apply today to Christians.
     
  5. Arnold_Philips

    Arnold_Philips what

    +440
    Christian
    In Relationship
    US-Democrat
    ^then you're being inconsistent. You can't apply the first verse about man lying with man then then avoid the second part about having to kill them. It is your duty to kill them.
     
  6. MethodMan

    MethodMan Legend Supporter

    +305
    Methodist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I fail to see how it would be murder. That society was governed by a theocracy and the head rule maker of that society was giving the direction

    What you describe as hate is more accurately characterized as tough love. So I guess I would dismiss the entire premise of this thread.
     
  7. Wow. So when people are beheaded in Saudi Arabia for petty crimes because it's a theocracy, that's ok?

    If you call that tough love, I'd hate to see what hate is in your opinion.

    I have no doubt that Christianity/Judaism/Islam are man-made, but when I see responses such as these, it just affirms that notion.
     
  8. MethodMan

    MethodMan Legend Supporter

    +305
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    Married
    US-Republican
    I can't really comment since it isn't the same kind of theocracy. By Man's morality, it is terrible, but you were talking about God.

    I am not a big fan of hate either.

    Then you really don't understand their differences all that well then either.
     
  9. Well this is a Christian Forum, so I would expect you to be consistent with the Bible, which I do take issue with.

    Just remember that not everyone believes what you believe, and other religions believe they are right as much as you believe you are right. And non-theists might believe you're all wrong.

    But when it comes down to it, and ideology preaching hate and murder is bad bad news.
     
  10. MethodMan

    MethodMan Legend Supporter

    +305
    Methodist
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    US-Republican
    That's not what you said in the OP.

    I have no doubt about that. The Bible speaks to that quite clearly.

    Agreed.
     
  11. Right I should clear that up, Fudamental Christians seem most extreme in adhering to the evil ideology of some biblical passages. Other Christians, who have a modern view and are much more tolerant seem to at least have some sense of morality when it comes to people.
     
  12. MethodMan

    MethodMan Legend Supporter

    +305
    Methodist
    Married
    US-Republican
    What do you mean "adhering to" as far as ideology? If you are talking about what and what is not sinful, that would be one thing. If you are talking what to do about that sin, that's soemthing else.
     
  13. In your mind, ideology attributed to biblegod saying to murder homosexuals is just. And the only reason you feel the need not to murder homosexuals now is because of a new covenant with Jesus (as if that makes it all better lol.) I wonder if you thought God told you to kill homosexuals now, if you'd do it.
     
  14. MethodMan

    MethodMan Legend Supporter

    +305
    Methodist
    Married
    US-Republican
    That's not what I said at all. You are attempting to use a legal term like murder to paint an immoral picture of God. I already dismissed that premise and told you why.

    Again, I don't need to feel anything. You are making one huge assumption about the OT Israelite. That being they somehow took joy in following the Law that told them they had to put the transgressor to death. To them, it was follow God on don't. They endured a lot of things they didn't like of feel good about.

    Well, I don't think that would EVER happen. God has said to love my neighbor and if he is living a sin, I have the obligation to counsel him on that.
     
  15. There's always a choice to not commit genocide, murder, rape and slavery. But apparently the Old Testament Jews who held the Bible in some authority were weak, and fell to those things.
     
  16. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,468
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    Married
    US-Republican
    I don't. The law of Moses is not the law of God, as Jesus makes abundantly clear when retracting the divorce law.

    Jesus, I think, made His opinion on the death penalty quite clear: It HURTS. And no, He won't stop us. And yes, He will forgive us. We can just keep hurting Him.

    Oddly, once you've got permission, all the fun goes out of it.

    Frankly, I have had way too many debates on this, and once you start talking seriously about language and context, I do not think a competent case can be made for any kind of ban on gay sex, let alone a death penalty for it. At least, not within Christianity; the Law of Moses is not our law.

    I'm a Gentile Christian, and I approve this message:

    The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians, Chapter 5, Verse 14
    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.​
     
  17. First, thanks for your gentle reply.

    Are you saying that Moses' law was false? Or that it no longer applies? That it was attributed to biblegod at all and may have had "his" seal of approval is my issue. I do not believe any benevolent divine being would command such evil ideology in the first place. Therefore I can only determine it was within the constructs of man.
     
  18. Goodchild

    Goodchild Guest

    +0
    So if the laws were changed to completely ban religion you would have no problem with that, cause it'd just be "tough love" to try and free you from your mental virus?

    It's hate buddy. You can sit there and try to justify it by calling it love, but those of us on the receiving end of your so-called tough love know it for what it is.
     
  19. Sweet :)
     
  20. HypnoToad

    HypnoToad *croak* Supporter

    +445
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    If you are suggesting that seeing homosexuality as wrong, but not killing them as "applying the first verse ... and avoid the second," you are wrong. The new covenant upholds homosexuality as sinful, but does not allow for killing them.

    What are you talking about?? My first post directly stated that killing them is NOT part of our covenant.

    Romans 1:26-32; 1Corinthians 6:9-10; 1Timothy 1:9-10.

    Answered above.

    Asking forgiveness requires repentance. Repentance means acknowledging you've sinned and turning away from it. Forgiving a sin is not synonymous with tolerating it nor condoning it.

    Hardly.
     
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