Thoughts on Confirmation

[Kalevalatar]

Interesting, what age was a person confirmed?

Initially, post-Reformation, the minimum age was eight. However, according to the ecclesiastical legislation of 1686 the age for confirmation was 13 to 14 (nowadays it's 14 to 15, so not that much different). One of the "licenses" being confirmed used to give was the license to drink coffee (and alcohol as well as smoke, i.e. the adult-stuff). You know, what's a Lutheran without coffee!

 

[Bryne]

Like in the end, all they needed to "pass" confirmation was to memorize the apostle's creed, 10 commandments, the books of the new testment, the great commission and the great commandment. There where a few other things they had to do such as find 10 total verses in the bible, write them down, memorize them for long enough to repeat them to the teacher and turn them in.

Quite a bit of memorization is required at my church, and my daughter absolutely couldn't do it. She has a learning disability that affects her ability to do rote memorization. This affected her ability to learn spelling words and multiplication tables, as well. She can understand concepts just fine and has no problem learning complex ideas and such. She had to do a little extra to be confirmed to make up for not being able to simply memorize stuff.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Quite a bit of memorization is required at my church, and my daughter absolutely couldn't do it. She has a learning disability that affects her ability to do rote memorization. This affected her ability to learn spelling words and multiplication tables, as well. She can understand concepts just fine and has no problem learning complex ideas and such. She had to do a little extra to be confirmed to make up for not being able to simply memorize stuff.

This is where pastoral care should come in. Being able to learn meanings over word-for-word would IMO suffice for someone who has medical reasons to not easily or possibly memorize.

But I think this should be a case by case thing, not a reason to change the whole program. At my aunt's LCMS congregation, when my cousin was going through the pastor changed the whole curriculum to accommodate a single person in the class. My aunt was outraged that the whole program was watered down so one person could pass. Not only was this not helpful for the rest of the class, but I imagine these are the steps that lead to a tradition of poor confirmation teaching because then it never gets adjusted again.

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I like it when confirmation asks of the parents (or a mentor) as much as it does of the confirmands.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'll be honest, as much as I like the idea, it would be nice to see more people even read the Bible. I'm not sure how realistic a goal the BoC is on top of the Bible.

And just to note, if they go through the BoC, they get the large catechism. I don't know if we should make them do it twice

Well, with The Treasury of Daily Prayer from CPH, this is taken care of. You have your daily reading from the Scriptures, and then your reading from the BoC. If you don't own a copy of the BoC, you can always read it online: Welcome to the Book of Concord.

 

[Bryne]

This is where pastoral care should come in. Being able to learn meanings over word-for-word would IMO suffice for someone who has medical reasons to not easily or possibly memorize.

But I think this should be a case by case thing, not a reason to change the whole program. At my aunt's LCMS congregation, when my cousin was going through the pastor changed the whole curriculum to accommodate a single person in the class. My aunt was outraged that the whole program was watered down so one person could pass. Not only was this not helpful for the rest of the class, but I imagine these are the steps that lead to a tradition of poor confirmation teaching because then it never gets adjusted again.

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I like it when confirmation asks of the parents (or a mentor) as much as it does of the confirmands.

I agree. And our pastor did an awesome job with Emily. I took her to the adult confirmation class in the evenings, and he worked with her individually, and gave her this big long written test that was basically testing her knowlege of the concepts.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

The pastor who married me once told me in his parish they were pretty strict about learning the catechism and such, but I loved the way he would tell them. When he could see the anguish/dread on the faces of the confirmands his response is "we won't let you fail", that is, the community was committed to working with the confirmation students to get through it. They truly had their support and took a role in the educating and nurturing of the faith of the confirmation students so that they would be prepared. It was not about dropping the expectations but working with them to meet them. That has stuck with me for years since he told me that.

 

[goldbeach]

Our pastor is pretty thorough on examination Sunday. Because the classes are small he will spend a good 15 minutes on each confirmant. They bascialy memorize the whol esmall catechism and multiple bible verses. Just like I did when I was confirmed.

There is a wide spectrum of practices in LCMS for confirmation. That's why I asked LL if the kids rules the class. I have seen that first hand in a previous church were the kids ruled the class and the pastor just sat back and let them.

 

[MaryEmily]

Well, I am being confirmed this weekend. Finished my classes and am really excited about it. I've been looking forward to this day since last fall when I began investigating Lutheranism.

What exactly do they do in the LCMS at an adult's confirmation? The pastor said it was nothing to get worked up about (as in worry). I'm one of those type A people and I like to know what/when/where/how/etc... I'm sure it will be just fine but I have this dread I'll get up there and not be able to say a word. You know???:o

 

[Tangible]

Hehe. There's nothing to it. The pastor will ask you a few questions and you just say very simple responses. Then they all vote to see if they will let you into the club. If they do, they show you the secret Lutheran handshake and give you your own secret Lutheran decoder ring. And that's it. You're in.




Just kidding.

 

[lux et lex]

I taught confirmation in my ELCA congregation and I can affirm, that compaired to what I've seen in the LCMS, ELCA confirmation programs are a joke.

Can you please keep in mind that this is not necessarily the case ELCA wide? It sounds like your particular congregation had a failure with education. Mine certainly did not. It was much more in depth what you described.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Well, I am being confirmed this weekend. Finished my classes and am really excited about it. I've been looking forward to this day since last fall when I began investigating Lutheranism.

What exactly do they do in the LCMS at an adult's confirmation? The pastor said it was nothing to get worked up about (as in worry). I'm one of those type A people and I like to know what/when/where/how/etc... I'm sure it will be just fine but I have this dread I'll get up there and not be able to say a word. You know???:o

MaryEmily,
first congrats and blessings on your upcoming confirmation. Thanks be to God the Holy Spirit for the working he has done in you.
It really depends on the congregation and pastor, but I imagine if the pastor says not to get worked up, then don't get worked up. If you freeze, just take some time. Don't think of any answers as answering a test, think of it as proclaiming what you believe. If you look to the catechism for example that way, it becomes easier. If you cannot remember the word for word answer, just start saying what you believe about such and such in your own words, and the answer may come back to you by looking towards the content.

And always remember, creed questions end with "this is most certainly true" and pretty much all commandments begin with "I should fear and love God" (or however your translation particularly words it).

 

[MaryEmily]

Thank you for the replies. I will remember to breathe. I am so excited, I can hardly contain myself. It's been a wonderful process of learning and growing. I hope the week goes fast. It's hard to concentrate on work. I think I'm more excited than when I was getting married!

I wish I'd figured this all out earlier in my life. That way I'd have had more years to give to the Lord in this. Oh well, better late than never. Did I mention I'm excited? Oh and my husband has promised to go with me this time to church. There may be hope for him yet. I keep praying for him to wake up.

Better get to bed, 5am comes early. I just can't stop mulling it all over in my mind. Just think, communion, being there. Wow.

 

[Luther073082]

Well, I am being confirmed this weekend. Finished my classes and am really excited about it. I've been looking forward to this day since last fall when I began investigating Lutheranism.

What exactly do they do in the LCMS at an adult's confirmation? The pastor said it was nothing to get worked up about (as in worry). I'm one of those type A people and I like to know what/when/where/how/etc... I'm sure it will be just fine but I have this dread I'll get up there and not be able to say a word. You know???:o

They have to do a blood test to see if your a real Lutheran.

(Any other Lutherans here get a kick out of the pastor in the movie Raising Helen? If you havn't seen this movie, you are missing out.)

 

[Zecryphon]

One of the things I'm saying is that if you do a separate 1st communion class sooner (or in cases like some ELCA churches do not require formal instruction prior to reception) then correct reception of communion no longer becomes the impetus behind the instruction.

Although I do believe every Lutheran should learn the catechism. It's more the process as a whole of how we've done it that I wonder about. I am not in favor of forgoing instruction (although I will note many Lutheran congregations--including non-ELCA have not done a good job at instruction, and often have made instruction either irrelevant to or not a significant part of confirmation).

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or missing something here. Above you've said that some ELCA churches do not require formal instruction prior to reception, I'm guessing you're talking about Communion. How is this good? Wouldn't these kids, who have not been properly instructed as to what Communion is, be receiving it unworthily and to their detriment, because they have not been properly taught what it is they are receiving?

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or missing something here. Above you've said that some ELCA churches do not require formal instruction prior to reception, I'm guessing you're talking about Communion. How is this good? Wouldn't these kids, who have not been properly instructed as to what Communion is, be receiving it unworthily and to their detriment, because they have not been properly taught what it is they are receiving?

All I'm saying is that in many churches that implied impetus for confirmation (instruction prior to communion) no longer exists either because it was removed altogether or is done at an earlier time.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

as coincidence would have it, this weekend I came across this book at half-price books, and given the current conversations felt it wise for me to get it for my own sake:

Confirmation: Engaging Lutheran Foundations and Practices

 

[Zecryphon]

All I'm saying is that in many churches that implied impetus for confirmation (instruction prior to communion) no longer exists either because it was removed altogether or is done at an earlier time.

Then that implied impetus needs to be brought back. We can't have anyone eating and drinking judgment upon themselves because they haven't been properly instructed.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Then that implied impetus needs to be brought back. We can't have anyone eating and drinking judgment upon themselves because they haven't been properly instructed.

We should be clear though that when we discuss eating worthily as Lutherans we talk only and always about possessing faith. For only by faith is the forgiveness received and only by lacking faith does one eat and drink to their own damnation (that is to say, it does not justify ex opera operato).

 

[Logical_Lutheran]

We should be clear though that when we discuss eating worthily as Lutherans we talk only and always about possessing faith. For only by faith is the forgiveness received and only by lacking faith does one eat and drink to their own damnation (that is to say, it does not justify ex opera operato).

The pastor at my church actually had a conversation with us about this. Apparently up until 1218 if you were baptized you took communion, no age or educational restrictions were placed on it. I can get more information if you want.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The pastor at my church actually had a conversation with us about this. Apparently up until 1218 if you were baptized you took communion, no age or educational restrictions were placed on it. I can get more information if you want.

In Finland, confirmation has its roots in the Reformation and the post-reformation era of the 1600s, when the reformers felt that preserving the purity of doctrine was of vital importance lest congregations lapsed back to their old Roman Catholic ways. Thus confirmation training came into being, to retain and develop through education that which was found to be right and pure doctrine.

I think it is still just as important as it was back then 400 years ago, with so many false and cultish new "end of world" or whatever stuff out there.