Thoughts on Confirmation

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

I know some of this may have been hashed out before, but I wanted to look at it this way.
I think our confirmation system is a bit of a hack. At least from an ELCA perspective. I think it is a fundamentally flawed system and is doing more damage now than help to our young people in church.

1) I think it adds to this misconception that we make faith, Lutherans are already in an uphill battle with this in our churches, yet having people later give this public profession of faith seems more about them than the faith they profess often.
2) I think there is a problem with a fixed age system. Not all faiths develop at the same speed, not all kids are I think in a very mature state in confirmation. While some studies show these years to be very formative spiritually, that is not a dead lock, and I think the age system has made more pressure for churches to have kids enter and kids pass confirmation who are not ready to be confirmed. Furthermore, when it is age based, it becomes "less fun Sunday School" because that is what it seems to replace in many congregations.
3) The notion of Sunday School in general is far different from its historical roots. Now it has shifted to become the primary lotus of Christian education for many families because they do not teach in the home, kids see it as a burden (since we here in the USA have a right to education and therefore oft take it for granted).
4) Confirmation standards are often a joke, especially in the ELCA. Our kids do not really learn much, are not well integrated into the congregation, and the rite itself lacks the respect and dignity it once held as a rite of passage. With the fixed age system, 8th grade used to once be the last years of school for many boys, thus they were seen as men when they were confirmed, it corresponded with their entrance into the work force. Now that is not the case, thus in many ways we do not treat our confirmands as adults or full members.
5) Communion is no longer a given for many communities as being first given in confirmation. In some ELCA congregations you can take whenever you want. In others (as well as LCMS congregations at least I'm not sure about WELS) you can take a first communion class-usually at 3rd grade and then you can take communion. Thus full entrance into "fellowship" seems quite lost too.
6) Confirmation has become the way out the door for so many youth today. So often children or even whole families wait until the kid is confirmed. And then stop coming. Confirmation has become an ending instead of a beginning. Part of this stems from the notion of spiritual independence. Once confirmed, the youth is now taken more responsibility for his/her own faith, and therefore will just use it so as to claim the right not to go to church rather than live into the faith s/he proclaimed. The other reason I think is that because we often do not treat them as full members, yet also often have few/no ministries for post-confirmation young people, they not only lack respect but lack place, and so fade out of church life or shop for a church that does have that (what were we saying about the attraction of ND churches, outreach programs to young adults I think is one of them that has an initial draw).
7) Young people are loaded with commitments. Parents and children often prioritize other commitments over confirmation. Sports are seen as more important for example and more pertinent to the confirmands future. Again, I think the age system builds in confirmation more as a required burden than spiritual opportunity. More has to be done to cause families to make confirmation a priority. Part of that would begin by saying you do not just join confirmation because you are in 7th grade but you have to come and say you would like to explore making a public profession of faith. This allows younger children to make this public profession if they are ready sooner, but it also allows those who are not ready or don't want to make that commitment to wait. Confirmation needs to stop being seen as a right based on someone's age.


Now this may vary from church to church. But this outlines some of my overall disdain for the current system as I have witnessed it in churches (both ELCA and LCMS).

 

[lux et lex]

My first two years of confirmation were very good. We learned a lot and related basic Lutheranism in a way that we could understand to make a good foundation before we got into the more technical aspects. Our last year was supposed to be the year where we really challenged ourselves and in a way questioned our faith, by means of talking about contemporary issues and how (if) they fit with the Lutheran faith. My last year was a mess. I have always been a very inquisitive person, and I had come to find in my previous two years that questioning was welcomed and encouraged. The small group leader that I had my last year did not feel that way, and I became somewhat of a "whipping boy"...it was awful. She recommended to my pastor and youth pastor that I not be confirmed, which baffled both of them because they both had a one on one relationship with me not only through confirmation, but also from past years and I had been co-teaching (and eventually solo teaching) Sunday School. I (along with the others in my small group) had individual meetings with both of them, full of questioning and such and both were satisfied that I was a good candidate for confirmation, and interestingly enough, my small group leader was not allowed to teach in confirmation or Sunday School after that, because others in my group had seen the example she had made of me and not spoken up in class and had privately expressed their concerns to the pastor and the youth pastor.

I just don't know when to shut my mouth sometimes and was not willing to buy into some of the non-ELCA ideas she was trying to introduce to us. That had been a struggle in my particular church for a while that the congregation was sort of split, the youth pastor and two of the four other pastors, and about 40% of the congregation, were very in line with the ELCA specifically, while the rest were not and almost teetering out of the ELCA to a more conservative place. I had a Sunday School teacher when I was in 6th grade bring pamphlets in about AIDS and HIV and explained that those diseases were "the final solution for the homosexual issue), and I got up and left in the middle of our class. He was swiftly replaced the next week. I think my church needed a better screening process and to make sure that people were adherent to the ELCA and not filling the kids full of things that were not part of our denomination. My last year that I taught Sunday School we actually started having teacher meetings and we took "quizzes" about the ELCA to make sure we were "fit to teach". From what I hear, we are still doing that. I had enough after I graduated from high school and left our congregation, and my mom and sister followed as soon as she had been confirmed because that 60% was closing in on 80% and the youth pastor had been called to another congregation and things were going down hill. After the 2009 Assembly, they voted to not call homosexual pastors and that was the last straw for my mom. She and my sister have found a wonderful home church now, and I'm still searching because I moved after high school and the options aren't fantastic in my new town.

Wow, end rant. But yes, I agree, the confirmation process needs some work.

 

[Melethiel]

I think we SHOULD be separating Confirmation from first communion. We claim that the Sacraments are a means of grace and strengthen our faith, a gift of God to us, and yet we withhold it from the most vulnerable. As it is, if we insist on linking the two, either we confirm at an age where they are old enough to understand the Sacrament, but too young to go through the whole catechesis, or we wait until they are 14 and 15, which is ridiculous.
The practice of the early church is still seen in the East, with first communion at Baptism, although they do not become full communicant members until they are old enough to understand it. Even in Luther's time, I think it was closer to 10. This practice of pushing confirmation later and later, while kids are constantly being bombarded with other religions and atheism in schools, is not healthy.

My thoughts:

We should have an abbreviated first communion process for kids around third grade where they learn the Small Catechism and what the Sacrament is. (Most third graders I know can understand that much.) Then, they receive extensive catechesis when they are older - go through the Large Catechism and the BoC.
It should also be tailored to the individual - some kids may be ready for Confirmation when they are 10, others may not be ready until they are 20.

 

[Constantine_Orthodox]

I think we SHOULD be separating Confirmation from first communion. We claim that the Sacraments are a means of grace and strengthen our faith, a gift of God to us, and yet we withhold it from the most vulnerable. As it is, if we insist on linking the two, either we confirm at an age where they are old enough to understand the Sacrament, but too young to go through the whole catechesis, or we wait until they are 14 and 15, which is ridiculous.
The practice of the early church is still seen in the East, with first communion at Baptism, although they do not become full communicant members until they are old enough to understand it. Even in Luther's time, I think it was closer to 10. This practice of pushing confirmation later and later, while kids are constantly being bombarded with other religions and atheism in schools, is not healthy.

My thoughts:

We should have an abbreviated first communion process for kids around third grade where they learn the Small Catechism and what the Sacrament is. (Most third graders I know can understand that much.) Then, they receive extensive catechesis when they are older - go through the Large Catechism and the BoC.
It should also be tailored to the individual - some kids may be ready for Confirmation when they are 10, others may not be ready until they are 20.

Could you elaborate more on the bolded part?

 

[Bryne]

I think we SHOULD be separating Confirmation from first communion. We claim that the Sacraments are a means of grace and strengthen our faith, a gift of God to us, and yet we withhold it from the most vulnerable.

I agree with this.

As it is, if we insist on linking the two, either we confirm at an age where they are old enough to understand the Sacrament, but too young to go through the whole catechesis, or we wait until they are 14 and 15, which is ridiculous.

If the two are to remained linked, I am in favor of younger confirmation...classes start in 4th grade and confirmation in 5th grade.

My church does classes in 6th and 7th grade and confirms in 7th grade. My daughter absolutely hated her 7th grade class. The kids didn't act like they were taking it seriously at all. They talked about how the only reason they were doing it was because they wanted to drink wine. They talked and texted in class (and lost their phones)...basically, they were typical 7th graders.

My daughter wanted nothing to do with it. She didn't want to be confirmed with them, and she wasn't. I started taking her to the adult class that was held in the evenings. She loved that class. She asked questions and listened. She liked that people were actually taking it seriously. She ended up being confirmed on her own later that year.

Confirmation Picture:

We should have an abbreviated first communion process for kids around third grade where they learn the Small Catechism and what the Sacrament is. (Most third graders I know can understand that much.) Then, they receive extensive catechesis when they are older - go through the Large Catechism and the BoC.
It should also be tailored to the individual - some kids may be ready for Confirmation when they are 10, others may not be ready until they are 20.

I was not required to go through the Large Catechism and the BoC in order to be confirmed. I don't see how we can ask older kids to do that if we don't even make adults do it.

In my church, when families with older teens want to join, the older teens take the adult confirmation class with their parents.

 

[Melethiel]

I was not required to go through the Large Catechism and the BoC in order to be confirmed. I don't see how we can ask older kids to do that if we don't even make adults do it.

Well, obviously, I think we ought to make adults do it too.

 

[Bryne]

I think that would be too long of a class for adults...and honestly, I don't think it is necessary to do that in order to teach what is needed of Lutheran beliefs and practices.

My husband and I attended some classes that were offered on the Book of Concord after we were confirmed, and I do have my own that I read.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Then, they receive extensive catechesis when they are older - go through the Large Catechism and the BoC.

I'll be honest, as much as I like the idea, it would be nice to see more people even read the Bible. I'm not sure how realistic a goal the BoC is on top of the Bible.

And just to note, if they go through the BoC, they get the large catechism. I don't know if we should make them do it twice

 

[goldbeach]

I'm not sure where they do 3-5th grade confirmation at, but in the LCMS traditionally they have had it in 7th and 8th grade or adult confirmation. Except for Mel all I see is people that have an interest in changing how comfrimation is done. Anytime I see someone from ELCA post something, they mention that it has to be relative to today (Lets change communion because we don't live in Luther's time).

I'm not sure why DTK thinks that the Lutheran Church thinks it's is the time to "make faith" at confirmation time. It almost sounds like a "works righteous" rite of passage.

Luther continued the practice from the RCC because it was a reafirmation of baptism and a confession of faith and a prelude to communion. How can anyone examine themselves if they have no basis for belief (1 Corinthians 11:28)?. It takes confirmation from a secular teaching aid to an action by the Holy Spirit. The Bible also mentions going from the "milk" of the Word to something more substantial. Confirmation is the "more substantial".

To me it's irrelevant when confirmation is done except that memorization is harder on the younger children. The age is immaterial since the Holy Spirit works though the bible verses. "....... my Word doesn't come back to me void". That is most important factor. During the reafirmation the Spirit works mightly in the confirmant. Even thoug we might not see the results for years the Word will work on them.

 

[Sandcv]

I went through confirmation classes in my junior high years, but I ended up refusing to be confirmed because at that point I didn't think I believed in God. I don't know if my current church even offers adult confirmation classes - I've never heard them mentioned. They do offer new member classes that cover the basics of Lutheran history and teachings.

The teens at our church go through a curriculum in their middle school years that explores the Lutheran faith and addresses different questions and issues, but they are not considered "confirmation classes". The confirmation classes are offered to senior high students. It is a 10 week series of classes that focus on catechism instruction, requires the kids to take notes on weekly worship, and memorize certain things. It is left up to the teen and his/her family to decide when to participate in this instruction - it is available to them at any point during their high school years. The church stresses that it is not something that is required of them, but that they should do willingly as an affirmation of their faith.

My oldest just finished ninth grade. He participates in the senior high ministry program, but says he is not interested in taking the confirmation classes "yet". I have been struggling with whether or not I should make him attend this coming year, or if I should wait for him to decide he wants to. (I actually did ask to attend confirmation classes when I was a young teen - my family did not regularly attend church.) I want him to WANT to affirm his faith, but at the same time I know that right now he is much more interested in friends, etc, than in sitting through any classes, particularly since he is not academically inclined. I am struggling with balancing my responsibility as his mother to educate him with wanting him to develop his own faith.

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Anytime I see someone from ELCA post something, they mention that it has to be relative to today (Lets change communion because we don't live in Luther's time).

I'm not sure why DTK thinks that the Lutheran Church thinks it's is the time to "make faith" at confirmation time. It almost sounds like a "works righteous" rite of passage.

Luther continued the practice from the RCC because it was a reafirmation of baptism and a confession of faith and a prelude to communion. How can anyone examine themselves if they have no basis for belief (1 Corinthians 11:28)?. It takes confirmation from a secular teaching aid to an action by the Holy Spirit. The Bible also mentions going from the "milk" of the Word to something more substantial. Confirmation is the "more substantial".

To me it's irrelevant when confirmation is done except that memorization is harder on the younger children. The age is immaterial since the Holy Spirit works though the bible verses. "....... my Word doesn't come back to me void". That is most important factor. During the reafirmation the Spirit works mightly in the confirmant. Even thoug we might not see the results for years the Word will work on them.

1) I never said (nor have I read any other ELCA person here say) that communion is changed for the sake of relevance. And this is not so much about being culturally relevant as it is about saying some of the assumptions about when and why we did confirmation prior are done differently today. How is it about examination if young people in so many Lutheran churches take first communion 3-5 years earlier?
2) I did not say the Lutheran Church views it as "making faith", I said many Lutherans perceive it that way, which is two totally different statements. We may not like to say it, but while in both the ELCA and LCMS I saw that a great number of Lutherans thought they made believe (or at least "accepted Jesus". I know it's a reaffirmation.
3) As to God's word not returning empty, I don't doubt that. Today I wish I had learned more in confirmation (confirmed LCMS mind you) to go back to. I learned the catechism later in life. But we should also note then that God's word in baptism, God's word in Sunday school, and God's word each Sunday morning like wise then does not return void. And more important this is why it is essential to keep our young people returning to church to constantly hear God's word, because it does work in their hearts. If confirmation continues to become the revolving door it has for a vast number of Lutherans, it is in fact damaging the ministry of the word. One of the reasons I stated above that something needs to be done is we have a system that has allowed and perhaps even encouraged our youth to stop coming to church, even though it is contrary to the notion of confirmation itself. Seems to me then that confirmation would better serve its purpose if change is brought.
4) It's one thing to say if it's broke don't fix it. But what about when it is broke?
5) I'm not suggesting doing away with confirmation altogether. I'm saying that for it to continue to work its role in the ministry of our congregations, we need to change something. You seem to suggest I am saying no more confirmation, but I am saying let's build this up. For it to continue to meet its original purpose, I think it needs a new process or some changes. Some of the people in here have already noted some of those possibilities here, including doing it at a different time, having people come and request confirmation when ready for it.
6) And I'm not sure if memorization is harder at a younger age. Retention is in many ways mentally best those previous years. There are other mental markers that correspond with some of the "typical" spiritual growth around confirmation age that would favor the older age, but I don't think (although I suppose I may be wrong) memory is one of them.

 

[goldbeach]

(Lets change communion because we don't live in Luther's time).

That was supposed to be confirmation. My bad. But I still hold to the relevence part of it

 

[jonathan1971]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the point of confirmation?

I was told that Children go throw it not only for basic instruction but to affirm correct belief regarding communion. If you improperly take of communion don't you eat and drink to your destruction? And if you give to that person that improperly takes of communion don't you bare responsilbity for their destruction?

Also, I was told that basic instruction was in the shorter catechism. Should this be enlarged to include the rest of the BoC? Coming from the Westminster Confession of Faith, I didn't find it so hard to read but what about those that are younger or not inclined to read theology?

 

[doulos_tou_kuriou]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the point of confirmation?

I was told that Children go throw it not only for basic instruction but to affirm correct belief regarding communion. If you improperly take of communion don't you eat and drink to your destruction? And if you give to that person that improperly takes of communion don't you bare responsilbity for their destruction?

Also, I was told that basic instruction was in the shorter catechism. Should this be enlarged to include the rest of the BoC? Coming from the Westminster Confession of Faith, I didn't find it so hard to read but what about those that are younger or not inclined to read theology?

One of the things I'm saying is that if you do a separate 1st communion class sooner (or in cases like some ELCA churches do not require formal instruction prior to reception) then correct reception of communion no longer becomes the impetus behind the instruction.

Although I do believe every Lutheran should learn the catechism. It's more the process as a whole of how we've done it that I wonder about. I am not in favor of forgoing instruction (although I will note many Lutheran congregations--including non-ELCA have not done a good job at instruction, and often have made instruction either irrelevant to or not a significant part of confirmation).

 

[jonathan1971]

I guess then it becomes dependent on the child. If the child is able to understand then if possible let them take instruction. I was never given a good reason as to what age instruction should start, I think it has alot to do with tradition or pastor availability.

If correct reception of communion isn't the reason for instruction then what's the point?

 

[Luther073082]

I taught confirmation in my ELCA congregation and I can affirm, that compaired to what I've seen in the LCMS, ELCA confirmation programs are a joke.

But even then the biggest problem was that the parents of many kids don't work or teach their children at home. Some do, the kids that have their parents doing at home where also usually the brightest and most well prepared kids in the class.

In fact one of those children knew so much that on the basis of knowledge she could have taught the class and we actually had to at one point when we where playing a quiz game with the kids have her read the questions because she just knew all the answers and would win easily.

But a lot of the kids you certainly got the feel as though their Christian education was given a low level of importance behind regular school, plus activities and sports and other things.

I will say, somewhat in our defense though is that though the LCMS congregations seemed to do better in my experience, in all of those cases their class sizes where significantly smaller then any class size we delt with in my ELCA congregation. The smallest class I ever taught had 8 kids in it. And we had one class that had 22! The average size of the class was probably 12 to 14 kids. But in the two times I've seen confirmation classes be confirmed in the LCMS churchs I've been attending, there was only 3 or 4 kids.

As for communion. . . I don't have much of an opinion. My ELCA congregation did first communion in 5th grade and confirmation after 8th grade.

The LCMS congretations seems to do first communion with confirmation.

I will say that new comfirmands arn't really treated as adults in the congregation. A lot of that has to do with culture, in the world they are still kids, its not like being confirmed is going to suddenly make them not kids in the eyes of the adults of the congregation.

Techinically I think once they are confirmed they are allowed to vote in the congregation. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one actually excerisize that.

 

[goldbeach]

I taught confirmation in my ELCA congregation and I can affirm, that compaired to what I've seen in the LCMS, ELCA confirmation programs are a joke.

But even then the biggest problem was that the parents of many kids don't work or teach their children at home. Some do, the kids that have their parents doing at home where also usually the brightest and most well prepared kids in the class.

In fact one of those children knew so much that on the basis of knowledge she could have taught the class and we actually had to at one point when we where playing a quiz game with the kids have her read the questions because she just knew all the answers and would win easily.

But a lot of the kids you certainly got the feel as though their Christian education was given a low level of importance behind regular school, plus activities and sports and other things.

I will say, somewhat in our defense though is that though the LCMS congregations seemed to do better in my experience, in all of those cases their class sizes where significantly smaller then any class size we delt with in my ELCA congregation. The smallest class I ever taught had 8 kids in it. And we had one class that had 22! The average size of the class was probably 12 to 14 kids. But in the two times I've seen confirmation classes be confirmed in the LCMS churchs I've been attending, there was only 3 or 4 kids.

As for communion. . . I don't have much of an opinion. My ELCA congregation did first communion in 5th grade and confirmation after 8th grade.

The LCMS congretations seems to do first communion with confirmation.

I will say that new comfirmands arn't really treated as adults in the congregation. A lot of that has to do with culture, in the world they are still kids, its not like being confirmed is going to suddenly make them not kids in the eyes of the adults of the congregation.

Techinically I think once they are confirmed they are allowed to vote in the congregation. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one actually excerisize that.

Well since you consider the ELCA confirmation a joke then maybe the number indicates what goes on in confirmation classes. Is it more or a social gettogether? Are some of the kids so disruptive that the teacher finally lets them do what they want? Just curious.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the point of confirmation?

Here in Finland, confirmation has historically also served as a concrete rite of passage from a minor to a fully empowered member of the community, both church and civil society. Only a confirmed member can marry, become a godparent, or participate in the parish elections. Previously, it was also the requirement to obtain an official certificate needed for passports, job applications, bank accounts, housing etc.

 

[Luther073082]

Well since you consider the ELCA confirmation a joke then maybe the number indicates what goes on in confirmation classes. Is it more or a social gettogether? Are some of the kids so disruptive that the teacher finally lets them do what they want? Just curious.

No thats not true at all. The confirmation program in the ELCA is a joke because of the simplicity of the materials taught and where the emphasis is. Not in how they where being taught or the program.

Like in the end, all they needed to "pass" confirmation was to memorize the apostle's creed, 10 commandments, the books of the new testment, the great commission and the great commandment. There where a few other things they had to do such as find 10 total verses in the bible, write them down, memorize them for long enough to repeat them to the teacher and turn them in.

We would go over more general information about the faith, but it was always pretty over simplified. Plus since all they knew that all they had to do was memorize those specific things they had no reason to committ the stuff we did teach them to remember it.

In the LCMS congregations in my experience they are usually "publically examined" with the pastor asking them more general information about the faith and things like that, with them not knowing what they will be asked ahead of time and having to just learn it all.

My ELCA congregation, they knew exactly what they where going to be asked to do in their private examination and just had to commit that stuff to memory.

In fact many of the better students completed everything they had to do in order to be confirmed well before they where finished with confirmation classes.

The number was not really so much of a function of what happened at confirmation classes, but a function of the sheer size of the church. The pastor was pretty charasmatic, had been there for a while 25+ years, and the LCMS church in town was not a healthy congregation while ours was a very healthy congregation. As a result the congregation was fairly large in numbers with an average attendence of 400 people every Sunday.

 

[jonathan1971]

Here in Finland, confirmation has historically also served as a concrete rite of passage from a minor to a fully empowered member of the community, both church and civil society. Only a confirmed member can marry, become a godparent, or participate in the parish elections. Previously, it was also the requirement to obtain an official certificate needed for passports, job applications, bank accounts, housing etc.

Interesting, what age was a person confirmed?