Thoughts on a Barack quote?

[tulc]

I need a kleenex.

I'll be right back.

...uhmmm ok.
tulc(wont ask what it was for)

 

[WatersMoon110]

We don't have the choice to murder them at birth, why before birth?

What a good question. What is the difference between abortion and killing a neonate?

First off, a neonate can be taken care of by any responsible adult. It is able to be seen and interacted with by people without the use of any medical devices (usually). It can be given up for adoption, and taken by an institution or adoptive couple from the biological mother.

Compare with that, an unborn human that is in the normal developmental stages where an abortion might be considered by the pregnant woman carrying it: It can only be cared for by the body of the pregnant woman. It can only be seen using medical devices, like ultrasound. It can really only be interacted with by the woman's body. It can't be taken outside of the pregnant woman's body without dying.

I can certainly see the many differences between an unborn human before 12 weeks of pregnancy and a neonate (newborn), and I can see why these two stages of human development are treated differently by the law. Just like a minor and an adult are treated differently, or an elderly person and a corpse. All are different stages of life for human beings, all are considered different by the legal system, because they are all different.

 

[WatersMoon110]

A fetus is not a child.

Not in terms of the stage of human development between ages 2 and 2. But "child" also means "offspring" and an unborn human is the offspring of the man and woman involved in its creation.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Actually it has much more to do with the fact that the innocent life has the right to be alive.

Even if it does, does that give it the ability to take away the right of the woman carrying it to control her own body? (I don't believe it does.)

After all, there are two humans directly involved in a pregnancy (plus a third at the beginning). Shouldn't both of them be considered?

Even if the unborn human has a right to be alive, the pregnant woman still retains her right to control her own body, a right which I believe includes the ability to deny use of her body to anyone and demand their immediate removal from her body.

Until medical viability, there is no way to immediately remove an unborn human from a pregnant woman's body without resulting in its death. When there is an immediate alternative to abortion (like artificial wombs and/or fetal transplant surgery), then I will agree with you that abortion is only needed when the life of the pregnant woman is severely threatened.

But, until there is an immediate alternative that doesn't result in the death of the unborn human, I do not feel it is ethical to make abortion illegal. Making abortion illegal at this point in time takes away rights from pregnant women.

 

[MarcusHill]

I need a kleenex.

I'll be right back.

Great, now you've hot a Monty Python song going round my brain.