Thoughts about Greg Killian's site/articles?

[sojeru]

no, he never said anything of Baal Teshuvah.

I applied it to what I have learned of him so far

I agree that no one can say he is a Jew by ancestry and just do a Baal Teshuvah--there is no such thing.
Our Rabbi tells me the same;
That I may indeed have Jewish ancestry which has allowed me to have the "Jewish Spark" but I must formally convert. And my Rabbi sees no disagreements at all with what is needed for conversion and who must convert- this i Know because I have spoken to him about who is to convert.
If this is applied to me, then it is also applied to His Honor Hillel.
And this has been over 10 years ago that His Honor Hillel and our Rabbi have metand have since been attached.

So it is by this reasoning, I KNOW that EITHER way, His Honor IS Halachically a Jew BECAUSE of our Rabbi. Whether is be by him having to convert- or whether it be by his mother who was a Jewess that did not practice Judaism but christianity- His Honor can easily make baal Teshuvah in this case.

shalom u'brachot

and yes our Rabbi is Hacham Dr.Yosef ben Haggai

 

[ShirChadash]

Um, my apologies Sojeru, but he did in fact claim himself to be ba'al teshuvah.

Quote from his site I cited the URL to in a previous post on this thread ( http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//autobio.html ) Killian's own words...

I attended Catholic schools until my third year of High School. Thereafter, I attended public schools. I graduated from Woodrow Wilson High School in Long Beach California in June of 1970. I received my Associate of Science degree from Long Beach City College. I also attended California State University at Long Beach where I studied botany.



I attended the Catholic Church until 1971 when I began attending the First Brethren Church of Long Beach. After moving to Tacoma, I began attending the First Baptist Church of Lakewood, Washington. I attended a variety of evangelical Protestant churches until 1990. In 1990 I began meeting with several other like minded believers to begin returning to a Biblical lifestyle. In 1985, my mother, may she rest in peace, first told me that I was Jewish. She pointed out that even our name was Jewish as it was found in Ruth chapter 1. By 1990, I had a strong desire to return to the religion of my fathers. I continue to worship and study with others who know the Mashiach (Messiah). We follow the standard Sefard Siddur (prayer book).



I have realized that I am not on the earth to see how much pleasure I can extract before I die. I was put here for a purpose. My name defines my mission. As I study Torah, teach Torah, and live Torah I am fulfilling my mission.



I am a Baal Teshuva (one who has returned to the ways of his ancestors), and my wife and son have formally converted to Judaism. We live as Jews, enjoying a kosher lifestyle. I also serve as Moreh at Bet Emunah Torah Institute. I earn my living as the Systems Programming Manager at World Savings, where I manage nine excellent systems programmers.

 

[sojeru]

ahh, very well then
then that is what he is
thank you for the quote Zemirah

I myself CANNOT be considered Baal Teshuvah
but, that is what His Honor is...and I I said Above

QUOTE:
or whether it be by his mother who was a Jewess that did not practice Judaism but christianity- His Honor can easily make baal Teshuvah in this case.

 

[ShirChadash]

Also, Sojeru... I have been meaning to ask you as regards this comment you made on a thread in the debate forum of the MJ section here at CF... (on this page: http://www.christianforums.com/t98971&page=3 )

However, I will not debate this with you- for my Rabbi advised me to not continue in dialogue with you concerning Hacham Shaul.

I actually wish i could though- but what a Rabbi says is as if G-D himself said it.

Is this something your Rabbi and Greg Killian teach and do they believe themselves to be in authority over you to this degree, or is this merely your personal view?

Thanks,
~z~

 

[sojeru]

well, I can disobey their order...
but I dont want to be in disobedience
and so I recognize their authority and the wisdom that is with it.

By obeying this one thing I have learned much already, which is "spend much time in good arguements- and it will turn into a good discussion, but a bad arguement is a waste of stregnth and time and gives much unecessary headaches"
this is my saying from what I learned.

 

[sojeru]

Also, at this time I am only a "child" in their tutelage and in Rabbinical understanding of Torah- so atthe moment there is no room for me to suggest that I can actually go a different way and for it not to be counted as disobedience.

 

[Plan 9]

Um, my apologies Sojeru, but he did in fact claim himself to be ba'al teshuvah.

Quote from his site I cited the URL to in a previous post on this thread ( http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//autobio.html ) Killian's own words...

Is it possible for a Jew to do this, or a gentile to convert, without denying Yeshua?

 

[sojeru]

INdeed, it is possible
I believe I stated the self made Bishop (Paqid) of Yisrael known as Yirmiyahu ben David who has done the same.
My Rabbi knows this and does not agree with what he teaches but he knows of how he converted and has shared it with his talmidim

 

[simchat_torah]

Is it possible for a Jew to do this, or a gentile to convert, without denying Yeshua?

No.

This is up to debate currently in the Orthodox Beit din in New York. But again... currently, the answer is still no.

One can not be a Baal Teshuvah on the merit of family rumors. One can not be a Baal Teshuvah without having observant parents. Also, one could have come from an observant Jewish lifestyle in one's own background.

and... they must deny Y'shua as the messiah in order to be a Baal Teshuvah or to convert.



Seems in the particular situation at hand, things just don't quite add up.
*shrug*

 

[sojeru]

Hi Simchat,

I guess you dont know all that is going on iside the batei din ey?

 

[simchat_torah]

INdeed, it is possible
I believe I stated the self made Bishop (Paqid) of Yisrael known as Yirmiyahu ben David who has done the same.
My Rabbi knows this and does not agree with what he teaches but he knows of how he converted and has shared it with his talmidim

Yirmiyahu ben David is a fake. See ---> here.

 

[simchat_torah]

Hi Simchat,

I guess you dont know all that is going on iside the batei din ey?

I have an online friend who is a hidden messianic who has previously served on the Beit Din in NY. I think I know a lot more than you think.

 

[simchat_torah]

I actually wish i could though- but what a Rabbi says is as if G-D himself said it.

Judaism does not teach this. Many cults today have similar theology, but this is not a Jewish concept.

The only place this can be hinted at concerns the Beit Din. Aside from this, no Rabbi is to be taken as though G-d himself were speaking.

shalom,
yafet

 

[sojeru]

not saying that you dont know alot...just that some do make it inside

 

[sojeru]

oy, you dont get it Simchat
I thought that you would easily get it.
And it is a Jewish concept
Think on a Gemarah level and maybe you will understand that saying
abot what a Rabbi says is as if G-D said it
Its not literal

 

[sojeru]

hmm, I have to slightly disagree with your position held on that thread

He is a self proclaimed Bishop- there have been no bishops in Israel since 2000 years ago- and he felt to ressurect this title or meaning of Paquid which can also mean clerk or counselor.
he used it to mean bishop- this is his fault.

He is a convert, however, what he believes in NOT RECOGNIZED as being legitimate.
but because what he does believe about His Majesty Yeshuah, he was allowed to convert...that is all- he has no authority or blessing to teach- he is no rabbi.
that simple

 

[simchat_torah]

He is a deceiver and liar (among other things)... tells others that the Orthodox Beit Din accepts his group (Netzarim) as legitimate.

 

[sojeru]

N E Wayz

the topic was about His Honor Hillel,

Him Being Orthodox, yet Nazarean
recieves no Honor
Believing in His Majesty Yeshuah and being Jewish in the Orthodox realm does not bring honor.
Just by the fact that he is even being questioned here on these forums is a prood that his honor and authenticity is questioned.
Yet he does not come here himself to defend his name.
That means he does not do this for honor or to be recognized.

Yet, if you believe him to not be authentic, excel him in Torah knowledge and in Court knowledge and question him- his email is on his web site.

another, He does not do this for profit.
Does he sell his articles?
he makes no money by his teachings nor does he want too.

If it is to be recognized as a Pioneer of establishing an indepth Orthodox Jewish view of the Nazarean Codicil.... well, that goes back to being honored...
yet I recognize him as such

But to be Nazarean there is no honor in it- yet we are not to be offended either- it is to be expected that people from all sides will question us.

Thus my defense of His Honor is done- and I should have said it as such from the beginning.

Shalom u'brachot to all

 

[sojeru]

hey, let him be a liar
as I said, we do not agree with him
also,
we reconize that he MADE HIMSELF a bishop
this is not allowed in Judaism
but we do easily see that he is a convert-despite the follies he is doing
he is... the only self proclaimed thing he had done is to call himself, annoint himself as a bishop and then to proclaim that the netzarim is recognized by any beit din...
he is partially recognized as a movement for the sole fact that he sells literature from the tamanim- yemenite Jews...
this is the only reason the Yemenite Jews or Beit din "recognize" him, but he is not legitimate.
I know that you believe you have every single nook and cranny covered Simchat- but I can tell you easily that you dont concerning Yirmiyahu ben David.

 

[Plan 9]

No.

This is up to debate currently in the Orthodox Beit din in New York. But again... currently, the answer is still no.

One can not be a Baal Teshuvah on the merit of family rumors. One can not be a Baal Teshuvah without having observant parents. Also, one could have come from an observant Jewish lifestyle in one's own background.

and... they must deny Y'shua as the messiah in order to be a Baal Teshuvah or to convert.



Seems in the particular situation at hand, things just don't quite add up.
*shrug*

Thank you, Yafet. I apreciate your willingness to answer this question, and all my questions, patiently, and with such simplicity and clarity.