Thoughts about Greg Killian's site/articles?

[ShirChadash]

How does anyone/everyone here feel about Greg Killian and his articles found here:

http://members.aol.com/gkilli/home/

?

Of everything I have read there, I can at least find his arguments scriptural and sound, though I haven't read more than maybe 10 of his articles so far. Many of his articles seem very thorough to me, and I am wondering how others of you view his material. Is he considered to be pretty reliable in viewpoint by some of you, any of you, or does anyone have serious concerns over his material(s)?

TIA and Shabbat Shalom to all.

~Z~

 

[Talmidah]

I think sojeru is very familiar with Greg Killian...he'd probably have some insight for you...

 

[Flavius]

How does anyone/everyone here feel about Greg Killian and his articles found here:

I really like the dude,He talks over my head alot but I agree with a great deal that he says.

I havn't read all the articles yet either,I really like how he puts dates in perspective like Shavout,for example the tribe of Benjamin getting his wife that day and how Shavout{Pentacost} is a wedding.I like to think of it as a wedding between Body and spirit,that one day on Shavout our bodies will become virgins and we Marry the Hiddin spirit man within.And that on a future Shavout people will go around healing and raising from the dead like they did after the first Pentacost.Pentacost is the day G-d took a wife on mount Sinia

But what do I know?

 

[ShirChadash]

Thank you Tal and Flavius! I hope Sojeru finds his way to this thread and also adds his thoughts.

No one else has opinions on Killian's articles?? Please?

Seriously... I was a bit put off recently when I noticed he is signing his articles as Hilel ben David (when previously I had only ever noticed it as Greg Killian), because then I thought, "oh great, another one taking a Hebrew name to sound more Jewish/appear Jewish." But then I read on his site that he is already Jewish and has returned to the faith of his ancestors, Judaism, and his wife and son have converted to Judaism... so that allayed my concern about that.

If anyone else cares to share their thoughts, I would very much appreciate it. I try to stick with teachers that the people *I* respect, respect themselves (did that make sense?). As I said, so far I haven't seen anything I terribly disagree with in his articles I have read. I would really like to know if he is considered solid, or not, by you folks here.

Shabbat Shalom
~z~

 

[Henaynei]

IMHO
I frequently use his articles for research in information he is a very knowledgeable and learned servant of Messiah. But, I rarely recommend them to others. I feel he is rather too "deep" for most folks growing in early MJism and therefore very vulnerable to overdosing on the "Judaism" of following the Jewish Messiah - i.e. get ensnarled in the fascination of the esoterica and become enthralled with the "true" Judaism long before they have solidified their grip on how they can be both followers of Yeshua and followers of Judaism -- this endangers many to the very real risks of clasping the religion of the Messiah without maintaining His elevation over all.


I, personally, read each article very cautiously and deliberately, being certain to measure and filter it all against scripture and my experience with G-d and Judaism.

 

[simchat_torah]

I have enjoyed his articles, but some have put question to his credibility.

I take him similar to James Trimm. While much of his work is utterly fascinating and good to mull over, I tend to distance myself while his credibility is under question by others.

If and when either of these two men clear their name by their accusers, I may possibly change my position. Until then, it is certainly a good read and a good place to learn much, but not a good place to 'be under' ... aka: associated with.

my 2 sheckels.
-yafet

 

[ShirChadash]

Thanks Henny and Yafet


Yaf, I looked around online, but haven't been able to find any discussions mentioning concerns about Killian by anyone so far. Could you give me an idea of what some of the concerns are that you have seen/heard about him and/or his theology/articles, his credibility etc.? You can PM it to me if you would rather. It's so hard to know the ins and outs of online teaching, and whether those folks who seem solid online are in fact, truly solid IRL and consistent in all their teachings... *sigh* anyway, I'd appreciate hearing more if you wouldn't mind sharing the concerns you're heard/read. Thanks, Achi.

~Z~

 

[simchat_torah]

Basically, some have questioned his 'conversion'. I don't know if any of these 'rumors' are true, and I try not to further any of them myself... but when a lot of these types of rumors center around one person, I tend to back off. (ie: James Trimm)

Some have said that Greg Killian, who states he's gone through and Orthodox conversion, is really only a self-proclaimed convert.

I really don't know the veracity of these claims, but it has caused me to distance myself because I have heard this very rumor so often.

shalom,
yafet

 

[Flavius]

Basically, some have questioned his 'conversion'. I don't know if any of these 'rumors' are true, and I try not to further any of them myself... but when a lot of these types of rumors center around one person, I tend to back off. (ie: James Trimm)

Some have said that Greg Killian, who states he's gone through and Orthodox conversion, is really only a self-proclaimed convert.

I really don't know the veracity of these claims, but it has caused me to distance myself because I have heard this very rumor so often.

shalom,
yafet

Yafet,
You really are freaking me out.
I am a bit dense at times and I almost went to google and searched that waffle.I am very interested in what you said here,I don't get it.
Does is make a difference whether he's been through an Orthodox conversion? Or is it cause he said he did something he didn't do?

Should I be looking for a Rabbi to do a conversion?

 

[simchat_torah]

Does is make a difference whether he's been through an Orthodox conversion? Or is it cause he said he did something he didn't do?

The second...

Its not that one must convert, but if one is going to claim such... they had better not be lying about it! I don't care if I am reading teaching from a gentile or a Jew if their teaching is good. But I do care about whether I am listening to a liar.

Should I be looking for a Rabbi to do a conversion?

That is between you and HaShem. If you feel led to do so, by all means, do not let anything stand in your way!

shalom,
yafet

 

[ShirChadash]

hm. I got the impression from his autobiography on the site

http://www.betemunah.org/watchman//autobio.html

that he found out he is Jewish, but was utterly nonobservant. He has embraced Judaism and it says his wife and son have so far converted formally to Judaism. I assume his DD is too young for a Bat Mitzvah. If he is Jewish (which, it doesn't say on mum's side, or pop's... but his mother told him at one point) then why would he need to convert?

Also, Yaf, I wanted to make sure -- have you heard of problems/concerns with his theology or articles at all? Since we don't have anywhere else to really be learning, we are stuck with learning online at this time, but we realize the responsibility we have for not casually embracing teachers with questionable teachings or connections, etc.

Thanks mucho!
~Z~

 

[simchat_torah]

Also, Yaf, I wanted to make sure -- have you heard of problems/concerns with his theology or articles at all?

Nothing with his articles, no...

Some have also put into question certain cult like practices (such as communal living, etc) that he and his believers practice. I don't really have a problem with any of it personally, but often certain things do reflect 'cultish' like images in the mind.

anywho... you all make the call.

I do enjoy his writing, guilty as charged. As far as Greg as a person, well... I'll stay distant till the dust settles.

 

[simchat_torah]

Let me make it clear, not sure if I have stressed this enough or not...

I really enjoy Greg Killian. I love his articles and like what he has to say.

I have jumped in with both feet with other teachers online only to be hurt in the end, realizing their character was not up to par with what they presented on the internet. The funny thing about the internet is that it brings out all the 'crazies'

Being able to remain anonymous allows one to present themselves in a totally different nature than they are in person. I thought I was able to decipher other's true colors by the words they use... and I discovered I was drastically wrong... on a few occasions.

Because of this, I have decided that those who I am not able to meet, and size up their character in person, I will not attach myself to them. Especially when said person has their credibility in question by others.

No matter how fancy their writing is, I will choose to remain distant until I am able to tell for myself whether the person is someone I want to be associated with.



Back to Greg Killian...

I really do like his writing. Aside from what is presented on the internet, I know nothing of him and his character. I do know that others have spoken negatively, which only adds to my caution... but please don't let my caution deter you from following what you believe is true.

I may end up meeting Greg someday and give him the full "Yafet endorsement".


Until then... I remain at a distance. Nothing should be read into this, I'm not saying anything negative... please make sure of this.

shalom,
yafet

 

[ShirChadash]

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Some have also put into question certain cult like practices (such as communal living, etc) that he and his believers practice.

*eyebrow raise*

 

[ShirChadash]

I may end up meeting Greg someday and give him the full "Yafet endorsement".

Until then... I remain at a distance. Nothing should be read into this, I'm not saying anything negative... please make sure of this.

nah, yer fine, as far as I'm concerned. I just wanted input for all those reasons you cited in this post of yours ^ right up there. Thankie!

 

[sojeru]

Hi All,

Concerning His Honor Hillel (Greg Killian)
He is my Paqid, my Counselor
and so he is overseer over me.
I am a student of His Rabbi- and so I find that with some things I discuss with His Honor are good, though I may personally disagree with some of what he believes as to few things.
But over all what he teaches cannot be argued over.
Since I am a student of our Teacher (his and Mine) I grow to into a certain view and hold it.
Personally I have made it a personal goal to be just like my Hacham (rabbi) in knowledge and when able to go beyond, that I will do.

But , it was through His Honor Greg Killian that I became a Student of our Rabbi.
all of his articles are what the Rabbi teaches.

Now, as to his legitimacy in being a convert?
he never had to convert
those that do not understand his families story will not understand him nor his story of how he made tikkun for his parents by embrassing Judaism.
and concerning James Trimm- he knows Greg Killian and our Rabbi personally and have great disagreements.

 

[Henaynei]

May I inquire??? Who is the Rabbi??

Hi All,

Concerning His Honor Hillel (Greg Killian)
He is my Paqid, my Counselor
and so he is overseer over me.
I am a student of His Rabbi- and so I find that with some things I discuss with His Honor are good, though I may personally disagree with some of what he believes as to few things.
But over all what he teaches cannot be argued over.
Since I am a student of our Teacher (his and Mine) I grow to into a certain view and hold it.
Personally I have made it a personal goal to be just like my Hacham (rabbi) in knowledge and when able to go beyond, that I will do.

But , it was through His Honor Greg Killian that I became a Student of our Rabbi.
all of his articles are what the Rabbi teaches.

Now, as to his legitimacy in being a convert?
he never had to convert
those that do not understand his families story will not understand him nor his story of how he made tikkun for his parents by embrassing Judaism.
and concerning James Trimm- he knows Greg Killian and our Rabbi personally and have great disagreements.

 

[simchat_torah]

Dr. Yoseph ben Haggai?

 

[Flavius]

I have jumped in with both feet with other teachers online only to be hurt in the end, realizing their character was not up to par with what they presented on the internet. The funny thing about the internet is that it brings out all the 'crazies'

I jumped with both feet one time and got so hurt,I stayed mad at G-d for over ten years.I would always bring new people into church,I was gung ho.

I brought two different girls at two different times.Both of them joined the church and both of them stopped coming after a meeting with the pastor alone.They told me the pastor tried sexual advances on them using some crazy doctrine to justify it.

I called both of them liars and much worse names,I was convinced they were lying about my pastor until my sister came crying to me.I put so much faith in that man,later we found out he had been keeping a hooker in a hotel for over a year on church funds.That man now owns the church through the donations of millions givin to him by a woman that used to attend the church but has since came to her senses.Now she wished she could get her money back

 

[simchat_torah]

Now, as to his legitimacy in being a convert?
he never had to convert
those that do not understand his families story will not understand him nor his story of how he made tikkun for his parents by embrassing Judaism.

I am familiar with Greg Killian's story. He found out he was Jewish by ancestory via his mother. However, the problem is that neither he, nor his mother or grandmother was observant or even Jewish by faith. One can not merely become a Baal Teshuvah in this manner, they must go through formal conversion to be recognized as Jewish.

I will allow Greg the opportunity to declare he is of Jewish ancestory, but to say he is recognized halachically would be somewhat deceptive. As well, from what I have heard him post on various sites, he only knows he is jewish through family rumors. While the rumors may very well be true, no Beit Din will recognize hear-say.

This may be unfortunate, but it is true.

I, personally, don't agree with all of the halachot concerning Jewish recognition. I think that some of it is too strict. However, Greg Killian can't simply claim "Baal Teshuvah" and then state that he is recognized as 'jewish' halachically. He would be required to go through conversion to be 'halachically' Jewish.


fyi...