Hello everyone. I just have a quick question. I have seen that a certain man named Thomas à Kempis was the author of the Immitation of the Christ. But what I would like to know is why he was never canonized? From what I have heard is that he was accidentally buried alive but I don't see why his unusual death could have stopped him from being canonized.
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Thomas a Kempis
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InnerPhyre
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I think the reason may have been that it was unclear whether he committed suicide after being buried alive.
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InnerPhyre said:
Actually, his hands/knuckles were gnawed at and despair was suspected. But that was discounted by the Congregation because it might have been rodents. In point of fact, he doesn't have the requisite miracles. If he did, he would be canonised.
We'll find out in heaven.
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I am not sure where the idea even comes from that what happened, if it iindeed did happen, could have been construed suicide . .
The tale is that when his coffin was exumed later, they found wood under his fingernails . . he was dead in his coffin . . that cannot be construed suicide. . .
The whole tale of him being buried alive is also suspect . . I haven't found any reputable sources yet, and those that tell the story doubt its veracity . .
It might be true he was buried alive . . but it can't be verified . . .
I don't know why he would not have been considered for canonization . . someone would have had to take up his cause . . . and there would have been the need to verify miracles, etc . . . . I don't know where you would find such information regarding him . . . Michelina, do you know of sources?
As far as being buried alive, I have heard it was common enough that they started tying bells to the toes of the deceased by a string . . so that if they woke up and started struggling, the bell on the outside of the grave would start ringing . . and someone was around to listen for this . . just in case . . . and I heard this is where the phrase "dead ringer" comes from . . . . . . I have also heard this is an urban legend . . .
Peace in Him!
The tale is that when his coffin was exumed later, they found wood under his fingernails . . he was dead in his coffin . . that cannot be construed suicide. . .
The whole tale of him being buried alive is also suspect . . I haven't found any reputable sources yet, and those that tell the story doubt its veracity . .
It might be true he was buried alive . . but it can't be verified . . .
I don't know why he would not have been considered for canonization . . someone would have had to take up his cause . . . and there would have been the need to verify miracles, etc . . . . I don't know where you would find such information regarding him . . . Michelina, do you know of sources?
As far as being buried alive, I have heard it was common enough that they started tying bells to the toes of the deceased by a string . . so that if they woke up and started struggling, the bell on the outside of the grave would start ringing . . and someone was around to listen for this . . just in case . . . and I heard this is where the phrase "dead ringer" comes from . . . . . . I have also heard this is an urban legend . . .
Peace in Him!
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thereselittleflower said:
There is nothing authoritative made public, Therese. This is why I didn't initially respond to this thread.
As far as being buried alive, I have heard it was common enough that they started tying bells to the toes of the deceased by a string . . so that if they woke up and started struggling, the bell on the outside of the grave would start ringing . . and someone was around to listen for this . . just in case . . . and I heard this is where the phrase "dead ringer" comes from . . . . . . I have also heard this is an urban legend . . .
In Italy, when I lived there, no one can be embalmed for at least 24 hours after death because of the fear of premature burial.
You touch on the most salient point:
I don't know why he would not have been considered for canonization . .
someone would have had to take up his cause . . .
His cause was sent to the Congregation.
and there would have been the need to verify miracles
The Church's Cause processing is very thorough and she has the most stringent requirement imaginable: the Church asks God Himself to verify the sanctity of the candidate. The miracle requirements put the burden on God to speak.
Mother Teresa got an appointment to speak with Silvio Cardinal Oddi, asking him to ask the panel of Cardinals that oversees Causes to change the rules for canonisation, i.e. to ask for a dispensation of the rules for the cause of Blessed Fr. Damien of Molokai. The Cardinal explained that he knew that the Dispensation would be refused. Mother Teresa said "Then I shall pray that the Cardinals will change their minds".
He responded: "Mother, it would be much easier to pray for the miracles."
The Miracle requirement is how the Church gets Divine testimony about a Saint.
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In this article it just says that no steps have been made to beatification since 1688. But i am wondering is it that there is just not enough evidence on his later life?
Here is the article
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14661a.htm
Here is the article
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14661a.htm
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Xpycoctomos
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That's so sad! I've read his book. Why would he even be suspect of suicide? Well, I guess that's something we'll never know. It's just so sad. I'll have to pray for him tonight. I would have never guessed!
John
John
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That's what I would suspect as well . . . Such an experience could also drive one insane in a very short period of time . . to have a completel mental/psychiatric breakdown . . and then one would not at all be responsible for one's actions . .Michelina said:
The whole things just doesn't sound reasonable to be considered as a reason for him not being canonized . .
I agree it seems it would have to be the result of a lack of prerequisites or something else we don't know of . . .
And it really isn't important any way . .
He has left us a masterful and monumental beacon to help us along the way in our spiritual walk . . . .
His work is considered the 2nd most important Chrsitian writing next to the scirptures themselves . . .
We should not concern ourselves so much with fables and fantastical stories which cannot be corroberated in any way . . . They only serve to undermine the truth that his work is full of divine truth and wisdom, it seems second only to the scriptures themselves, and is a very valuable gift to the Church . . .
And for this he is to be remembered and honored in our memory and thanks be given to God for the light he has been to those who have followed . .
Peace in Him!
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His book stands on its own. Many holy people have testified to its value.
Speculation about what the Congregation thinks are pointless. Members of the committees are very intelligent priests, bishops and Cardinals. They know no conclusion can be drawn from the condition of his body as it was. If it had been incorrupt, then it would have said something. But the key is the miracles and they have not been forthcoming
Does that mean he was not a very holy man? No. There are many very holy people who are not canonized.
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Rising_Suns
'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'
We should not concern ourselves so much with fables and fantastical stories which cannot be corroberated in any way . . . They only serve to undermine the truth that his work is full of divine truth and wisdom, it seems second only to the scriptures themselves, and is a very valuable gift to the Church . . .
And for this he is to be remembered and honored in our memory and thanks be given to God for the light he has been to those who have followed . .
Amen.
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Xpycoctomos
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If he's a Saint, he's a Saint (well,all Chrsitians are saints, and special saints when they pass on... but I mean a Saint ). Canonization does not make holiness, it only recognizes it. If there is too much doubt surrounding his death, then the Catholic Church was probably wise in not Canonizing. DOn't you think?
John
). Canonization does not make holiness, it only recognizes it. If there is too much doubt surrounding his death, then the Catholic Church was probably wise in not Canonizing. DOn't you think?John
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Xpycoctomos said:If he's a Saint, he's a Saint (well,all Chrsitians are saints, and special saints when they pass on... but I mean a Saint
I agree, John. The Church's way of doing things is the wiser way to go. The Church has a well-honed Pastoral Prudence, refined over many centuries.
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Rising_Suns
'Christ's desolate heart is in need of comfort'
I would suspect God answered a prayer of his not to be canonized. Based on his writings, he seemed far too humble; indeed, one of the most humble "s"aints I have ever read. Perhaps then, it is actually quite fitting. Yes?
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