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This Proverb is Mary?

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Uphill Battle

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Jesus was not brought forth, God had Wisdom always, the Holy Spirit was not brought forth...

SO WHOM would this be?

Who else brings us to the Lord, who else brought the Lord to us?
WHo else's FRUIT is more precious than gold?

This is about Mary.
who brings us to the Lord? the LORD does!

AND since YOU do not know the mind of God, you cannot deny that He brought her forth before He made creation. You really have nothing to substantiate against this being Mary.

Let's not say for a fact He didn't do it. Since we were not there.

IF you were, that would be another story.

This is scriptures.
me knowing the mind of God or not knowing the mind of God is irrelevant. You must attribute Mary as eternal, for her to be pre-existant. Are you comfortable with that thought?

the entire basis of your argument is "well, it doesn't say it's NOT Mary....."

that doesn't do well in logical terms... We have a record of only God pre-existing creation. Mary was NOT there.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Those verses do NOT say she is eternal.

Read them again.

She was BROUGHT FORTH.

Means she was created.
WHEN...is subject to opinion.

Scriptures say before He created creation.

ITS in your mind that you think that means she was eternal.

THAT is not how it reads.
 
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Uphill Battle

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Those verses do NOT say she is eternal.

Read them again.

She was BROUGHT FORTH.

Means she was created.
WHEN...is subject to opinion.

Scriptures say before He created creation.

ITS in your mind that you think that means she was eternal.

THAT is not how it reads.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting....


Oh, snap.... looks like eternal.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting....


Oh, snap.... looks like eternal.

Oh, snap, no it doesn't.

She was set from GOD, Who is everlasting.
 
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Uphill Battle

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Oh, snap, no it doesn't.

She was set from GOD, Who is everlasting.
NASB: "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. (NASB ©1995)
GWT: I was appointed from everlasting from the first, before the earth began. (GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
ASV: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
BBE: From eternal days I was given my place, from the birth of time, before the earth was.
DBY: I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.
JPS: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
WBS: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
WEB: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.
YLT: From the age I was anointed, from the first, From former states of the earth.


you've completely ignored the context of the verse. It is clearly stating that Wisdom was set up from Eternity.
 
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lionroar0

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I'd like it explained then, how those who do not seek Mary for intercession, attain salvation. (unless you are willing to state that those who do not, cannot.)


Salvation does not come from Mary but from Jesus. Prayers of intercession to Jesus attain salvation.

It's a common pratice in the christian community to ask others to pray with and for others for salvation.

This includes His mother as well as other the Saints in heaven as well as on earth.

As per the Creed.

We belive in the communion of Saints.

It's not a case that only intercessory prayers of Mary attain salvation.

Peace
 
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Uphill Battle

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Salvation does not come from Mary but from Jesus. Prayers of intercession to Jesus attain salvation.

It's a common pratice in the christian community to ask others to pray with and for others for salvation.

This includes His mother as well as other the Saints in heaven as well as on earth.

As per the Creed.

We belive in the communion of Saints.

It's not a case that only intercessory prayers of Mary attain salvation.

Peace
the creed? I don't think it demonstrates praying to departed saints.
 
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WarriorAngel

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I prayed last night the Rosary....
And I am a firm believer of Matthew 7:7-8.


From the texts Proverbs 8 and Ecclesiasticus 24 (which exalt the Wisdom of God and which in the liturgy are applied to Mary, the most beautiful work of God's Wisdom), or from the Canticle of Canticles (4:7, "Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee"), no theological conclusion can be drawn. These passages, applied to the Mother of God, may be readily understood by those who know the privilege of Mary, but do not avail to prove the doctrine dogmatically, and are therefore omitted from the Constitution "Ineffabilis Deus". For the theologian it is a matter of conscience not to take an extreme position by applying to a creature texts which might imply the prerogatives of God.

Epistle: Proverbs 8:22-35

The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His ways, before He made anything from the beginning. I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made. The depths were not as yet, and I was already conceived, neither had the fountains of waters as yet sprung out: the mountains with their huge bulk had not as yet been established: before the hills I was brought forth: He had not yet made the earth, nor the rivers, nor the poles of the world. When He prepared the heavens, I was present: when with a certain law and compass He enclosed the depths: when He established the sky above, and poised the fountains of waters: when He compassed the sea with its bounds, and set a law to the waters that they should not pass their limits: when He balanced the foundations of the earth, I was with Him forming all things; and was delighted every day, playing before Him at all times; playing in the world, and My delights were to be with the children of men. Now, therefore, ye children, hear Me: Blessed are they that keep My ways. Hear instruction and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth Me, and that watcheth daily at My gates, and waiteth at the posts of My doors. He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord.
Link
 
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WarriorAngel

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NASB: "From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. (NASB ©1995)
GWT: I was appointed from everlasting from the first, before the earth began. (GOD'S WORD®)
KJV: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
ASV: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
BBE: From eternal days I was given my place, from the birth of time, before the earth was.
DBY: I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.
JPS: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
WBS: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
WEB: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.
YLT: From the age I was anointed, from the first, From former states of the earth.


you've completely ignored the context of the verse. It is clearly stating that Wisdom was set up from Eternity.

Are you perchance establishing that Christ was created?
God is everlasting [without time] And it was He Who 'set up' or 'established' the person of this verse.

Yet Christ says in Revelation and in the Gospel...
"I AM.' And he says 'I am the Alpha and the Omega' which means...I AM the beginning, and the end. NOT established, not set up, not created....from God [Who is everlasting] BUT HE IS. He is God.

BUT let's not worry too much about this, because it says only those who know will understand this. :hug:

God Bless.
 
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IamAdopted

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I prayed last night the Rosary....
And I am a firm believer of Matthew 7:7-8.




Link
Mary in no way can help on single person. For she is not the savior. Salvation was never around Mary,. She neither is wisdom. She is a human being that had to glory in the Cross of Christ herself.. Wisdom and as she cries out has always been.. Even before creation was begat wisdom was there. Mary had a beginning and she had an end. Just as all of Humans,.. She was born and she died and her body went back into the dust that it was made from.. Christ is the center of salvatin and all that it pertains to for He alone was the God man. Mary was His mother according to the flesh. But according to the Spirit all who do the will of the Father are His mother Sister and Brother. Notice that none though are ever His father.. Amazing Grace how sweet the sound.
 
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Uphill Battle

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Are you perchance establishing that Christ was created?
where did you get THAT from? we were talking about thes proverbs being or not being about MARY. try to stay on target. If Mary IS the Wisdom in the proverb, then she would have to be there before creation. I was not refering to Christ, who most certainly was. (John 1)
WA said:
God is everlasting [without time] And it was He Who 'set up' or 'established' the person of this verse.
riiiiight..... but everlasting in this verse is not being used as a TITLE. you are skewing the passage to fit your ideology. If you cross section all the versions, you can see what it is ACTUALLY saying.
WA said:
Yet Christ says in Revelation and in the Gospel...
"I AM.' And he says 'I am the Alpha and the Omega' which means...I AM the beginning, and the end. NOT established, not set up, not created....from God [Who is everlasting] BUT HE IS. He is God.
no argument there, but again, has nothing to do with what we are speaking about.

WA said:
BUT let's not worry too much about this, because it says only those who know will understand this. :hug:

God Bless.
how utterly, completely, and obscenely arrogant.
 
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Uphill Battle

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There's only one communion of Saints. That is to say that there is only one community of Christians.

Peace
right. However, there being one community of believers has little to do with either the mandate, or permission, to commune with saints who are passed on.
 
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lionroar0

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right. However, there being one community of believers has little to do with either the mandate, or permission, to commune with saints who are passed on.

We don't need permission to commune another Christian.

The Creed is perfectly on the meaning of Communion of Saints.

Any one who does not belive that they can ask other christians to pray with and for them, including the Saints is not holding to the full definition of the Communion of Saints and is short changing themselves.

As I have posted ealrlier there is one only communion of Saints.

Peace
 
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