IMO, the only way God is in control is when we as Christians be His voice for such a time as this...
Careful here. God is in control. Full stop. He needs no permission from us to do anything. Understand this first and foremost.
Next. God gave man dominion in this earth. He created it. He controls it. But he has given us dominion to tend it. It is our mishandling of that dominion that has caused all the issues we have. God has let us rule and judge this earth. We have dominion.
Next. Remember that God is sovereign. Although He has given us dominion and He allows us to excercise that dominion, IF He decided to wipe us all out, He could (doesn't need permission). But He has promised certain things and certain outcomes and He will not go back on His Word (so He won't wipe us all out!). Get the balance there. God is God. We are not. We do not
allow God to do things; we work within the system He has set up and He has given to us. It is like any of us who have had small children (say, 2-5 years old) and they are coloring in a coloring book. We gave them the book; we gave them the crayons; and we gave them soft instruction to color within the lines. They chose the colors; they scribbled the best they could (we could've done better (maybe!) but we didn't); and they crossed outside of the lines a little or maybe a lot. We didn't get in there and correct it. It was ok in the grand scheme.
What Bob left for us to read in Romans is much more scarier, if I can use that word...
Here's what we as Christians are to do...
I Tim. 2:1-2 - "Therefore, I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all goodness and reverence."
Wonderful quote. This one was next on my plate. Yes! We need to pray for those who are in leadership positions (not only politicians, but all leadership, including your pastor and decons and elders). Pray for them.
You see we are
in this world, but we are not
of this world.
We do not (here in the US and many of the posters here outside the US) live in a theocracy. So our governments are secular in nature. Our representatives could be and should be believers -- some who are not Christian would question that, but I'm speaking from my pov. Of course if they are strong Christians then our laws and rules would line up will with the Word. And even with a secular government we have done fairly well in the US keeping it fairly moral by Biblical standards.
It ain't perfect. There is work to do. But it starts and always stands in prayer. Then it takes action: voting, getting involved in letting representatives know what you want, getting involved in local community (for it is the local governments that usually give candidates to the state, and the state that gives candidates to the federal). Grass roots and all that.
But as 1 Tim 2 says: pray for your leaders. Intercede for them.
Neither one of our candidates are perfect, however, there is a major difference between conservatism and liberalism between the two... I believe (IMO) that our present administration, in being so liberal has already taking us "over the cliff," if you will... I prayfully believe that if a more conservative administration gets in office, and IMO, (since we are already "over the cliff"), we may be able to slow down the "freefall" to the "sudden stop" when we do eventually hit the bottom of the cliff... by doing so, we may have more time to do the work that God wants us to do... Either way, time is short and I believe God's people have a say in the matter... We are here "for such a time as this."
BTW... I like Glenn Beck... Let's vote and see what God is going to do...
Ok. Glenn Beck is a Mormon; remember that his leanings (and thus his suggestions) will be, if they have a religious message at all, Mormon. We can enjoy him as well as any other secular entertainer, but we must always guard our thoughts. It is when a person is being comedic or when they lull you into a trusting position that they can most damage your thoughts. If you are strong in the Word, you will be able to see when his words are contrary to the Word.
Next: yes, we have two candidates in which neither are Christian.
Obama seems to care less about any religious notions, and at times seems to lean toward not disparaging the Muslim faith to the point that at times he seems to uplift it. I do not buy into conspiracy theories that he is Muslim or a proponent for Muslim thought. I just think that
he thinks he's being fair. And that is a damaging position for Christianity.
Romney (and any Mormon) is an odd case. On one hand their moral code is parallel to the Christian moral code. They read and "believe" the bible (albeit their own interpretation). There are many overlaps between Mormonism and Christianity. The problem is that their interpretation and belief of who God is and who Jesus is simply is not the God and Jesus of Christianity. Their god rose from being a man into godhood. Ultimately they have many of them, albeit in their own worlds/universes.
So do you choose agnostic or do you chose Mormon?
Well, once again: we are not choosing a pastor here. We really are not choosing a spiritual leader. So this is a secular choice. If Romney were elected and tried to espouse his religious views he would be met with a whirlwind of opposition: Christians would cry foul for the heresy; athiests would cry foul for the religion. And let's not even get into the possible fights between Congressmen and Senators who are Christian/ Mormon/ Agnostic/ Athiest/<insert a religion here>.
Again, we are not a theocracy. We have battled Christian v.s. non-Christian viewpoints for the entire history of our country. It will continue regardless of the religious positions of the candidates in the future.
George Washington was Episcopalian. Did the country become Episopalian in the 1790's? Martin Van Buren was Dutch Reformed. Did Calvinism take over in 1837? John F. Kennedy was Catholic. Does anyone here have knowledge of the firestorm that broke out over that? How Catholic did the government become during his term? And how less likely will this Christian nation (for it is predominantly Christian leaning) will adopt anything Mormon?
So do you choose agnostic or do you chose Mormon?
And did you (or more to the point everyone!) think about it when we elected congressmen and senators -- for they really run the country. If the President the the Congress don't see eye to eye we wind up with a lame duck president.
down off the box....
back to the thread.... so yes, it is a secular government. We can influence it: most directly by voting for Christians, not only with principle but with an understanding of how to run things; next most directly by being involved. And in all cases we pray, we intercede.
Now: Obama? Romney? Where do they stand on the
issues that matter? On the
laws that will be passed/recinded? On the
economic directions that they will endorse?
How to vote? That's up to you.
To vote? What if every Christian sat out of this vote? Who (populace) would be left to choose the direction for the country?
Let's vote and see what God is going to do...
