This is Why Homosexuality is Wrong. . .

[Ramona]

Here's part:
Defenders of Truth - oh the irony
http://www.defendingtruth.org/content_print.asp?content_id=73

They pulled all of their info from here:
http://www.unitedfamilies.org/marriageSexualOrientation.pdf

You'll see many references, including that of Paul Cameron.
Lying is ok if you do it for Jesus.

OK, that explains a lot. Thank you so much.

 

[Beanieboy]

OK, that explains a lot. Thank you so much.

Well, he certainly wasn't going to provide it.

 

[TheOutsider]

Here's part:
Defenders of Truth - oh the irony
http://www.defendingtruth.org/content_print.asp?content_id=73

They actually use the phrase "Gay Elite" in that article. Who talks like that anymore???

 

[Baggins]

Just some random stats.

The risk of contracting AIDS from a single act of unprotected heterosexual intercourse is 1 in 715,000. The risk of contracting AIDS from a single act of unprotected homosexual intercourse is 1 in 165. (Tom W. Smith, "Adult Sexual Behavior and Risk of AIDS,"Family Planning Perspectives 23, no. 3 (May/June 1991) 104). "Does Homosexual Activity Shorten Life?" Psychological Reports. Vol. 83, Number . , 1998. Page(s) 847-866.)

Research shows that homosexual men are not getting tested for HIV. A report from the Centers for Disease Control showed that more than three-quarters of the homosexual men studied were unaware they were carrying HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.(Centers for Disease Control, International AIDS Conference, Barcelona, Spain. July 7-12, 2002.

A co-twin study found that men with same-sex partners were 6.5 times as likely as their co-twin to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not explained by mental health or substance abuse disorders. (Herrell, R. et al (1999) "A Co-twin Control Study in Adult Men" Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10: 867 - 874.)

The rate of new HIV infections among men who have sex with men is nine times higher than among women and heterosexual men. (Centers for Disease Control, Media Center, 2002)

A study revealed a dramatic increase in anal cancer among homosexual men. This increase is traced to the Human Papillomavirus (HPV), a sexually-transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer in women and is found in almost all HIV-positive homosexual men. (Report of study at annual meeting of American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons, June 26, 2002.)

Homosexual men in San Francisco who reported having unprotected anal sex increased from 30% in 1994 to 39% in 1997. Those who said they had unprotected sex with multiple partners grew from 24% to 33% during the same period. (Sack, K. (1999) "For Gay Men, HIV Peril and Rising Drug Use," New York Times. Jan. 29 internet version)

A 1991 study of homosexual men in New York City revealed that the average number of lifetime sexual partners was 308. (Meyer-Balburg H. Exner, T.,Lorenz G., Gruen, R., Gorman, J, Ehrhardt, A (1991) Sexual Risk Behavior, Sexual Functioning and HIV-Disease Progression in Gay Men Journal of Sex Research. 28, 1: 3-27.)

According to Centers for Disease Control interviews, 50% of male homosexuals had over 500 sexual partners, the first several hundred homosexual men diagnosed with AIDS had an average of l,100 lifetime partners. (Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay men. NY: Dutton.)

Clinicians Mattison and McWhirter studied 156 long-term homosexual relationships, but found that not one couple was able to maintain sexual fidelity for more than five years. Most maintained a monogamous relationship for less than one year. Homosexual theorists respond by redefining promiscuity as normal and healthy for homosexual men. (The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop, Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, Schmidt, 1995)

A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43% of white male homosexuals had sex with five hundred or more partners, with 28% having 1,000 or more sex partners. (A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 309; See also A. P. Bell, M. S. Weinberg, and S. K. Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981)

Among heterosexual couples, 75% of husbands and 90% of wives claim never to have had extramarital sex. (Robert T. Michael et al., Sex in America: A Definitive Survey, Boston: Little, Brown & Company, 1994) Other studies and surveys confirm the percentage of faithful spouses between 75-81% for husbands and 85-88% for wives. (Michael W. Widerman, "Extramarital Sex: Prevalence and Correlated in a National Survey," Journal of Sex Research 34 [1997], pg. 2)

i believe that people with same sex attractions . . . should not be ostracized. But I do believe that ultimately they are hurting themselves in spirit, at the very least. As we can see a lot of these people are hurting themselves physically.

You seem to have forgotten that 50%+ of homosexuals are lesbians and they have much lower incidence STDs than heterosexuals.

You using of biased data says a lot about what you really think of homosexuality.

 

[KarateCowboy]

You seem to have forgotten that 50%+ of homosexuals are lesbians and they have much lower incidence STDs than heterosexuals.

You using of biased data says a lot about what you really think of homosexuality.

Biased data? You don't even have data. You claim the CDC is biased? Prove it.

I have not studied the distribution of homosexuality in male vs female much, but Homosexualities , Bell & Weinberg suggests that about two thirds of homosexuals are male.

Nonsense. Provide us with a link from where you got this information. Until then I am going to assume that these "of all" statistics you have are relayed to very, very minor cross sections of various LGBT communities.

Every gay, lesbian, or transgendered person I know can be identified as monogamous, serial monogamous, or celibate. I don't know anyone who has had more that 500 sex partners. Or 100 sex partners. Or 50 sex partners. The highest of anyone I know has had about 25, and she is heterosexual.

I call meadow muffins until I see some linkage.

Well, what a scientific analysis you have. All five or so of your friends with SSA I am sure is a much more scientific analysis than the Center for Disease Control is capable of. So, what did you use as a control group? Can I see transcripts from your interviews? What was your hypothesis and where is your abstract? Time and time again I show these scientific statistics to people and they wave their hands and shake their heads and say "I know three gay people and they're nothing liek that hurr (or so I think, truth be told I've never asked). So my opinion > the science of experts." It's like the Holocaust deniers. It's an affront to reality. It's an affront to common sense. Every time they do that I can almost picture the embodiment of ignorance, arch-backed and snaggle-toothed, hopping up and down in a dance of victory.

I gave you proper citations. The Journal of Sexual behavior is a peer-reviewed scientific publication and is available through just about any university library or from multiple online database such as EBSCO, so waving your hand and saying "liar, liar" will not work. Since the citations are properly done I will not run and do your work for you and say "here, see!" for you just to come up with another lame excuse to not face reality. Actually, here you go: http://www.cdc.gov .There ya go.

 

[TheManeki]

Just some random stats.

The risk of contracting AIDS from a single act of unprotected heterosexual intercourse is 1 in 715,000. The risk of contracting AIDS from a single act of unprotected homosexual intercourse is 1 in 165. (Tom W. Smith, "Adult Sexual Behavior and Risk of AIDS,"Family Planning Perspectives 23, no. 3 (May/June 1991) 104). "Does Homosexual Activity Shorten Life?" Psychological Reports. Vol. 83, Number . , 1998. Page(s) 847-866.)

Research shows that homosexual men are not getting tested for HIV. A report from the Centers for Disease Control showed that more than three-quarters of the homosexual men studied were unaware they were carrying HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.(Centers for Disease Control, International AIDS Conference, Barcelona, Spain. July 7-12, 2002.

A co-twin study found that men with same-sex partners were 6.5 times as likely as their co-twin to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not explained by mental health or substance abuse disorders. (Herrell, R. et al (1999) "A Co-twin Control Study in Adult Men" Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10: 867 - 874.)

The rate of new HIV infections among men who have sex with men is nine times higher than among women and heterosexual men. (Centers for Disease Control, Media Center, 2002)

A study revealed a dramatic increase in anal cancer among homosexual men. This increase is traced to the Human Papillomavirus (HPV), a sexually-transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer in women and is found in almost all HIV-positive homosexual men. (Report of study at annual meeting of American Society of Colon and Rectal Surgeons, June 26, 2002.)

Homosexual men in San Francisco who reported having unprotected anal sex increased from 30% in 1994 to 39% in 1997. Those who said they had unprotected sex with multiple partners grew from 24% to 33% during the same period. (Sack, K. (1999) "For Gay Men, HIV Peril and Rising Drug Use," New York Times. Jan. 29 internet version)

A 1991 study of homosexual men in New York City revealed that the average number of lifetime sexual partners was 308. (Meyer-Balburg H. Exner, T.,Lorenz G., Gruen, R., Gorman, J, Ehrhardt, A (1991) Sexual Risk Behavior, Sexual Functioning and HIV-Disease Progression in Gay Men Journal of Sex Research. 28, 1: 3-27.)

According to Centers for Disease Control interviews, 50% of male homosexuals had over 500 sexual partners, the first several hundred homosexual men diagnosed with AIDS had an average of l,100 lifetime partners. (Rotello, G. (1997). Sexual Ecology: AIDS and the Destiny of Gay men. NY: Dutton.)

Clinicians Mattison and McWhirter studied 156 long-term homosexual relationships, but found that not one couple was able to maintain sexual fidelity for more than five years. Most maintained a monogamous relationship for less than one year. Homosexual theorists respond by redefining promiscuity as normal and healthy for homosexual men. (The Male Couple: How Relationships Develop, Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, Schmidt, 1995)

A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, in their classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43% of white male homosexuals had sex with five hundred or more partners, with 28% having 1,000 or more sex partners. (A. P. Bell and M. S. Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity Among Men and Women (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1978), pp. 308, 309; See also A. P. Bell, M. S. Weinberg, and S. K. Hammersmith, Sexual Preference (Bloomington: Indiana University Press, 1981)

Among heterosexual couples, 75% of husbands and 90% of wives claim never to have had extramarital sex. (Robert T. Michael et al., Sex in America: A Definitive Survey, Boston: Little, Brown & Company, 1994) Other studies and surveys confirm the percentage of faithful spouses between 75-81% for husbands and 85-88% for wives. (Michael W. Widerman, "Extramarital Sex: Prevalence and Correlated in a National Survey," Journal of Sex Research 34 [1997], pg. 2)

i believe that people with same sex attractions . . . should not be ostracized. But I do believe that ultimately they are hurting themselves in spirit, at the very least. As we can see a lot of these people are hurting themselves physically.

These facts indicate a need for more safer sex practices, more AIDS testing, and less promiscuity. Using these as a basis for banning homosexuality would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

These statistics ignore heterosexuals and make no comment about lesbians, which makes an interesting statement about the beliefs of the person who posted them. Which is the most interesting part of the post, IMHO.

From TheManeki's Book Pile: An interesting "thought-experiment" regarding throwing out the baby with the bathwater is investigated in Norman Spinrad's Journal of the Plague Years.

 

[Baggins]

Biased data? You don't even have data. You claim the CDC is biased? Prove it.

.

You were collating data for male homosexuals and making it look as though it realted to the whole community of homosexuals, or at least not making it clear that it wasn't.

You should know that Lesbians have a very low instance of STDs but that doesn't fit in with your gay bashing agenda so rather than be even handed you left it out.

 

[KarateCowboy]

These facts indicate a need for more safer sex practices, more AIDS testing, and less promiscuity. Using these as a basis for banning homosexuality would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I don't think we should be making laws to ban Same Sex dating, so we are in agreement there.

These statistics ignore heterosexuals and make no comment about lesbians, which makes an interesting statement about the beliefs of the person who posted them. Which is the most interesting part of the post, IMHO.

Yeah. It says that they were some random stats grabbed from my repository of articles, and that the person who posted them (me, in case you were wondering --your post is ambiguous), believes there is nothing wrong with throwing some random stats onto the table for investigation.
And actually there is this that I posted

Among heterosexual couples, 75% of husbands and 90% of wives claim never to have had extramarital sex. (Robert T. Michael et al., Sex in America: A Definitive Survey, Boston: Little, Brown & Company, 1994) Other studies and surveys confirm the percentage of faithful spouses between 75-81% for husbands and 85-88% for wives. (Michael W. Widerman, "Extramarital Sex: Prevalence and Correlated in a National Survey," Journal of Sex Research 34 [1997], pg. 2)

So you either deliberately ignored that or missed it. I'm a nice guy, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you missed it.

 

[KarateCowboy]

You were collating data for male homosexuals and making it look as though it realted to the whole community of homosexuals.

Now you're just lying. I clearly said:

Just some random stats.

I did not say anything like the assertion you claim I made. I left the floor open for discussion.

You should know that Lesbians have a very low instance of STDs but that doesn't fit in with your gay bashing agenda so rather than be even handed you left it out.

That may or may not be true. But you still do not provide any statistics to support that.

There is a word for people like you.

Yeah. We call them "Stat-posters". The word for people like you is "People-who-refuse-to-back-up-their-claims-with-facts".

I don't have to debunk your data and its sources, I see that other people have already done that adequately.

Good day

There we have it: the mind of the Baggins. "My opinion > the CDC's scientific findings". I really don't think Bilbo would agree with you.

 

[Baggins]

Now you're just lying. I clearly said:

I did not say anything like the assertion you claim I made. I left the floor open for discussion.
That may or may not be true. But you still do not provide any statistics to support that.

Yeah. We call them "Stat-posters". The word for people like you is "People-who-refuse-to-back-up-their-claims-with-facts".
There we have it: the mind of the Baggins. "My opinion > the CDC's scientific findings"

If you don't have a gay bashing agenda why would you post a few stats thats concentrate on the prevelence of aids in the male homosexual community in one country? Do you just like stirring up discord on an already heated thread?

Why not post stats about the low levels of aids in Lesbian communities in the USA, or the higher levels of aids in heterosexual communities throughout the majority of the world.

It just seems a either a rather smug thing to do or a rather nasty thing to do.

Are the stats you post always one sided and designed to create discord?

Do you have a specifically anti-gay agenda in posting those stats?

If not why did you post them?

 

[TheManeki]

Among heterosexual couples, 75% of husbands and 90% of wives claim never to have had extramarital sex. (Robert T. Michael et al., Sex in America: A Definitive Survey, Boston: Little, Brown & Company, 1994) Other studies and surveys confirm the percentage of faithful spouses between 75-81% for husbands and 85-88% for wives. (Michael W. Widerman, "Extramarital Sex: Prevalence and Correlated in a National Survey," Journal of Sex Research 34 [1997], pg. 2)

I didn't comment on this directly the last time because it wasn't even relevant to your misguided case. Quoting your local temperature and windspeed would have been as relevant. Why, you ask?

* Your sound bite failed to address how this survey took into account false responses, ie people who answered they were faithful or never had extramarital sex when the opposite was actually true. If you want to bring such facts to the table, you should address this.
* These studies are about heterosexual extramarital sex, which doesn't compare well with homosexual extramarital sex (because of that whole lack of gay marriage thing). A much better comparison would be using statistics on premarital heterosexual sex.

 

[IzzyPop]

Yes, of course it is. I see absolutly no difference between homosexual behavior, fornication, adultary, prostitution, incest, etc.... It is all rebellion against GOD. It is all the same thing. It results in the same patterns of behavior. The guy who cheats on his wife is no different then a homosexual. The guy who tries to entice little girls is no different than a homosexual. The guy who exposes himself in public is no different then a homosexual. They are all the same, doing the exact same thing. They abuse the sexual organs, they manipulate people, they want to be able to do whatever they wish with free abandon, they are stuck in a pattern of repetition.... They don't like the term sin applied to what they are doing----though they may say they do not care.

You know that broad brush you use to condemn other people with that you claimed not to use? Here it is, found it for you. You are condemning homosexuals, not the act, right here. I even bolded where you did so for easier perusal.

 

[LittleNipper]

You know that broad brush you use to condemn other people with that you claimed not to use? Here it is, found it for you. You are condemning homosexuals, not the act, right here. I even bolded where you did so for easier perusal.

The Bible judges the act and not the person. Read Gallatians chapter 5 verses 16-25

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Hate to break it to you, Lil' Nip, but you are not the Bible.

 

[KomissarSteve]

The Bible judges the act and not the person. Read Gallatians chapter 5 verses 16-25

That verse has nothing to do with homosexuality:

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

I'm guessing you're referring to the part about "sexual immorality," but I don't see any reason to believe that Paul is referring to homosexuality here.

 

[IzzyPop]

The Bible judges the act and not the person. Read Gallatians chapter 5 verses 16-25

See that atheist icon next to my name? I put as much stock in what the Bible says as I would in LOTR when someone is trying to convince me that orcs exist.

Oh, and I second Jane's comment. Reps for Jane!!

 

[TheManeki]

The Bible judges the act and not the person. Read Gallatians chapter 5 verses 16-25

Posting a reference to a vague passage doesn't help your case, LN. If anything, it just shows to what degree this belief of yours that homosexuality (or homosexual acts, if you prefer) is sinful colors your readings of the Bible.

"Sexual immorality" (to use the NIV translation's phrase) is a catch-all concept, which allows it to be defined a host of ways. Unfortunately, Paul or the Galatians aren't here to specify exactly what he meant. Adultery? Using sex to manipulate someone? Non-missionary position intercourse? There are many more options than just homosexuality.

You still haven't come up with a solid argument against homosexuality from the Bible and science.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Posting a reference to a vague passage doesn't help your case, LN. If anything, it just shows to what degree this belief of yours that homosexuality (or homosexual acts, if you prefer) is sinful colors your readings of the Bible.

Agreed. This seems to be a common theme with social conservatives in general - because they're so convinced that homosexuality is a sin, suddenly every mention of impurity or sexual immorality must be referring first and foremost to teh gayeez.

 

[LittleNipper]

Posting a reference to a vague passage doesn't help your case, LN. If anything, it just shows to what degree this belief of yours that homosexuality (or homosexual acts, if you prefer) is sinful colors your readings of the Bible.

"Sexual immorality" (to use the NIV translation's phrase) is a catch-all concept, which allows it to be defined a host of ways. Unfortunately, Paul or the Galatians aren't here to specify exactly what he meant. Adultery? Using sex to manipulate someone? Non-missionary position intercourse? There are many more options than just homosexuality.

You still haven't come up with a solid argument against homosexuality from the Bible and science.

It is not a vague passage. It is supported through a thorough reading of the entire Bible. Sexual impuity is sexual impurity. Homosexuality, is a modern term that was established to replace sodomy among the human population. Sex that is performed for a purpose other than as an attempt at procreation is being applied improperly. Sex can be gratifying, but it does not exist to gratify. Sex can be enjoyable; however, it does not exist to be entertainment. People who are applying it as such are abusing its created intent.

 

[IzzyPop]

It is not a vague passage. It is supported through a through reading of the entire Bible. Sexual impuity is sexual impurity. Homosexuality, is a modern term that was established to replace sodomy among the human population. Sex that is performed for a purpose other than as an attempt at procreation is being applied improperly. Sex can be gratifying, but it does not exist to gratify. Sex can be enjoyable; however, it does not exist to be entertainment. People who are applying it as such are abusing its created intent.

And the problem with this, as has been stated a few times before, is that you are also including heterosexual infertile couples into the mix. The sex that have cannot result in a child. So by using the same logic, you are calling any sexual interaction between them immoral as well.