This is What It Means to Be an Overcomer in Christ, Not Everyone Wants It

[Songofsongs]

In the millennial kingdom overcomers in Christ will reign for 1000 years. Non-overcomers in Christ will be judged by the lake of fire to burn off dross and then cast into outer darkness which means made ready and disciplined outside the light of the reward of reigning with Christ during the millennium so they can be made ready for the New City. Those who are raptured at the first rapture are included in those in Rev. 20.4. Those at the 7th trumpet resurrection are also included in reigning with an iron rod if they are in the third category from the Tribulation or the first category of Chrisitians from the past 20 centuries or saints of the OT times who were overcomers. If you don't understand 100% of what I said, please ask.

Rev. 20.4 three classes of people will reign with Christ:

(1) The overcomers will sit on thrones, and judgment will be given to them (20.4a). This shows that they have inherited the kingdom (see also Dan. 7.10, 18, 22-“Saints of the Most High”).

(2) The martyrs throughout the 20 centuries (“them that had been beheaded”-20.4b). These are the souls under the alter as shown in the fifth seal (6.9f). It is for “the testimony of Jesus” that they are killed.

(3) The martyrs during the Great Tribulation. These are those who do not worship the beast nor his image, and upon whose foreheads and hands no mark of the beast is received (20.4c).

 

[Bianca2]

What do you mean by overcoming Christ?

 

[Songofsongs]

Overcoming = first resurrection = a "best" "out-of" resurrection from the general conglomerate of resurrections during the 7 year Tribulation.

 

[breezynosacek]

True, not everyone wants it or are willing to surrender to Christ over it. However, when i came to the Lord I already knew that. I set my face in determination to be obedient to the Lord in spite of it.

 

[Songofsongs]

And you well know too that in Christ if you do not overcome and you are not accounted worthy to escape (Luke 21.36) the Hour of trial to be received to the Throne according to Rev. 3.10 at the first rapture for keeping the Word of His patience that there is nothing wrong with you going through Tribulation, for even yet another opportunity unto martyrdom to allow God to work off any additional dross that is needed in the time of testing as well as a testimony to the Jews and an example of refusing the mark of the beast, to then be resurrected days later after your martyrdom or if you are ALIVE and LEFT (1 Thess. 4.15-17) given a new resurrected spiritual body at the 7th trumpet rapture resurrection, and still potentially qualify for reigning with Christ during the millennium though under much more difficult circumstances of the Tribulation itself.

This is God's perfect way.

 

[breezynosacek]

All I know for certain is that when I came to Christ, I knew I would be called to lay down my life for the sake of the Gospel and that I would go through the trib. I don't know about all this rapture stuff, I don't believe in the rapture theory. I believe in the ressurection of the dead in Christ at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. That's what God has put in my heart and shown me in His word as well as in Daniel 11:33-35 That I will be purified with fire (fiery ordeals, tribulation) to be made white even unto the time of the End.

 

[Songofsongs]

Differentiate between the tribulation of the past 20 centuries (Rev. 7.14) and the Tribulation of the Consummation of this age. To say to God you will go through the Tribulation is not reaching the fullness of God's calling your life because God in actuality does not want you to go through the Tribulation if you have overcome in Him and are ready to be received at the first rapture (Matt. 24.37,40-41, Rev. 7.9) if you keep the Word of His patience. To say that you will go through the Tribulation is to proclaim that God will have you overcome in outer darkness, but His wish though is for you to overcome while still in the body. God wants you to be in the first resurrection of which first rapture is a part of that can no longer be hurt by the second death. You do not want to be waiting for the Antichrist and death first, for death is not a blessing. There is a resurrection of the dead at the sounding of the 7th trumpet it is a matter of completion, otherwise you could live evily up to that very last day because you would know when the Lord would come. But since we do not know when the Lord comes at first rapture we are heeded to be watchful and prayerful for a reason, so that we may escape that Hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world. God wants to put this in your heart not what you say He has put in your heart for God has not put this calling in anyones heart for certain except the Two Witnesses, Enoch and Elijah. This verse Dan. 11.33-35 is for those in the Tribulation not because they are called to be there for noone is called to be there unless they though saved do not overcome in Christ. This is a very special principle. Such is a time of testing even for Christians who had not overcome by this time.

 

[breezynosacek]

First, there is no rapture in Scripture when the texts are taken in context, second there are two ressurections mentioned in Rev.20:4,5

"Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges and to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homeage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark or permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.
The remainder of the dead were not restored to life again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first ressurection."

Third you mention Matt 24 and if you have eyes to see and ears to hear you will understand that Jesus Christ does not return until AFTER the tribulation. Matt 24:31

Now, I'm not going to get into a spitting contest with you over this because I don't have time and the Lord has better things for me to do.

So be finished with it now and return unto the Lord and seek ye the Truth.

 

[Songofsongs]

Of course there is a rapture for with every resurrection there is a rapture. The first raptur is seen at Matt. 24.37,40-41 and thus seen in heaven at Rev. 7.9. Two Witnesses were obviously resurrected, thus then ratpured after 3 and a half days and the 7th trumpet rsurrection when comparing 1 Thess. 4.15-17, 1 Cor. 15.50-52 "last trump".

breezy, you are not a Christian you deny rapture. Bye.

 

[ClickBox]

There is nothing to be gained by arguing with a fool. Therefore I will not comment on any of SongOfSong's posts, despite how vehemently I disagree with nearly everything he's written. Especially the "if you don't have the exact same eschatology as I do, you aren't a Christian and are condemned" bit.

However, the church I grew up in taught pre-trib rapture, but some of you have brought up some interesting points. I'm unsure of the timing of events. I'm still sure there will be a rapture, just not when it will happen.